69 Copo Camaros sold new in Canada [Archive]

PeteLeathersac

10-19-2009, 09:36 PM

The way GM Canada Vintage Services used to send copies of whole microfilm pages w/ the document packages probably resulted in more Canadian Copo cars being found that may not have been?. (L89's etc too)

Sadly it's not all a good thing as I'm not just referring to genuine whole cars but also 'air cars' too..

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
~ Pete

--------------------
I like real cars best...the REAL real ones!

Tarrytown SS427s

10-20-2009, 02:22 AM

Are the air cars that surfaced the reason for them not offering the microfilm pages anymore? That is a shame! It was really neat to see a few of those from some Impala guys who got the docs back in the 90s etc.
steve

10-20-2009, 07:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Are the air cars that surfaced the reason for them not offering the microfilm pages anymore? That is a shame! It was really neat to see a few of those from some Impala guys who got the docs back in the 90s etc.
steve

[/ QUOTE ]I would have to think it had more to do with the privacy of information act. I can see GM not wanting legal battles over the 15 or so extra vin#'s with build info they gave with every requested one

Keith Tedford

10-20-2009, 07:53 PM

I don't know much about the Privacy of Information act, but I have the GM of Canada documentation for our one car along with the page from the microfilm containing our car along with all the rest of the cars on the page. I was told that the problem with giving out the pages, was that the key codes are also on there. This could make it very easy for a thief to steal one of these cars. The license bureaus here sell you a $20 information package that lists all previous owners. When we bought our 396 car in 1997, we got the list of all owners back to the original guy who I have met. I don't believe it goes back that far now.
As far as legal problems for GM, I can't see any. They aren't actually documenting your car. They just send you information pertaining to a given VIN, nothing more. It's a nice piece to add to the puzzle.
Nurse Chev-Olds, Whitby, sold a red COPO Camaro. It was written off in '70-'71. A few have been lost along the way I would think.

10-20-2009, 09:16 PM

Yea it would make it a bit easier all right. Then the only problem you would have is finding one of the cars with the vin# on the page

Keith Tedford

10-21-2009, 01:37 AM

Actually there was a COPO on the page that belongs to a guy named Dave. He called me one time and was surprised when I rhymed off all of his options. I've never tried to track down any of the cars but would gladly help anyone one who has a car on the page.

10-21-2009, 04:45 AM

How long ago was that?

Keith Tedford

10-21-2009, 04:28 PM

That was probably 5 years ago. I understand that he got the car back on the road a couple of years ago.

PeteLeathersac

10-21-2009, 04:45 PM

You're talkin' another Copo Chevelle Keith and not a Camaro?.

And your statement above "...They aren't actually documenting your car. They just send you information pertaining to a given VIN, nothing more..." is very well put and exactly true!.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif
~ Pete

Keith Tedford

10-21-2009, 08:03 PM

Yes, it is a Chevelle.

midyr

10-21-2009, 09:49 PM

Any of you guys have knowledge of the ZL1 Camaro shipped new into Nurse in 1969?

PeteLeathersac

10-21-2009, 10:19 PM

I've read of it before too Lance and mentioned it here in past threads...supposedly sent to Nurse so a back up ZL1 was handy for Eaton's Can-Am team..
Unconfirmed is the engine was used by Eaton and Nurse sold the car w/ an iron motor?.
I believe Keith Tedford has mentioned here in the past that he saw an iron Copo at Nurse and maybe that the car was wrecked on the street?.
Also this same engine may be one Ed Cunneen found in more recent years???

Nothing to do w/ this subject Lance but did you see this thread from this morning?.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat...true#Post424753 (http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=motion&Number=424753&Sear chpage=1&Main=424742&Words=+PeteLeathersac&topic=& Search=true#Post424753)

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif
~ Pete

Keith Tedford

10-21-2009, 11:24 PM

One weekend when there was a CanAm race at Mosport, there was either an AVS or UOP Shadow being worked on in the Nurse Chev-Olds back shop. I was told that GM had trailer loads of parts available to the racers on the circuit. Don't know this to be fact though.
The red COPO Chevelle that Nurse sold was an L72 car. I could have bought that car or the Chevelle that I bought from Beare Motors. The Chevelle didn't look like a stripper and was $700 cheaper. No regrets at all. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

PeteLeathersac

10-21-2009, 11:28 PM

And on the Copo at Nurse's Keith?.
Perhaps I'm losing it but hadn't you mentioned here previously you'd seen one there also knew it was later wrecked?.

Funny on any Can-Am cars using the ZL1 427 engines as they ran different displacements anyway?.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
~ Pete
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/youguysrock.gif

Keith Tedford

10-21-2009, 11:34 PM

Yes, that red COPO was written off on Taunton Road north of the Oshawa airport so I was told. Didn't the CanAm engines have a bigger bore,shorter stoke and 430 CID. I think that Grumpy Jenkins used the same bore-stroke combination in his pro stock car back then. This combination was said to run better than the stock ZL1 bore stroke.

midyr

10-22-2009, 12:36 AM

I believe I likely ended up with the motor pulled from the Nurse ZL1 and handed over to George Eaton's race team. In late 1969, after Eaton lost his backing from Eaton's Dept store, I bought a boatload of stuff from him, including 2 alum blocks, 3 sets of alum open-chamber heads, cranks, rods, etc, etc. Still have cabinets of hardware. One block was a standard ZL1, one was a 430 Can Am. I never saw the Camaro, don't know the color, but do clearly recall hearing the story repeated numerous times back then, including by Vince Piggins. A few years ago I heard the camaro was with a guy in Hamilton and he knows what it is.

Keith Tedford

10-22-2009, 12:56 AM

I stopped in at Nurse quite regularly in '69. They always had something interesting on the lot. Always at least one Z/28. They even had one that they installed the track cam and cross ram setup. They even let me take the car out for a drive. Most disappointing ride I ever took. A ZL1 on the lot would have been BIG news around Oshawa. Lots of us were aware that it was available. You never know. I always stay positive about these stories because there was a time in the '80s when no one believed that there were COPO Chevelles. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

midyr

10-22-2009, 04:03 AM

The ZL1 was never put on the lot for sale, at least not as a ZL1. What I was told was that Eaton had powdered every motor that GM had sold him, needed a motor for the next race, the run of 430 blocks had been exhausted, and all GM could offer was the motor in a new ZL1 Camaro sitting unwanted in Detroit. The car was rushed to Nurse, the motor immediately pulled and taken away by Eaton's people. They made the race that weekend. The Camaro sat around Nurse for a while, only a hand full of inside folks knowing what it was - and, in those days, nobody caring. GM couldn't sell the cars with a motor in them, much less without one, so it became just another Camaro at that point.

my70454ss

10-26-2009, 03:38 AM

So does anybody know what became of the car?

midyr

10-26-2009, 04:10 PM

I have been told it is in Hamilton and the owner knows what it is, but never heard anything more than that and don't know how reliable it is. All I do know for certain is what I have related above. I can't remember for sure how many blocks I bought from Eaton, but I did get every one he had, two at least, maybe more. That was November of 1969 so it is highly likely one had originated in the Camaro, and probably one of those in the previously attached photo.

firez

10-27-2009, 04:05 PM

The ZL-1 would not happen to be white would it?

COPO PETE

10-27-2009, 04:43 PM

I'm guessing yellow!
Peter

Thomas

10-27-2009, 05:29 PM

I have a vague recollection that someone on this site mentioned that this car is back in the US and is being restored.

P.J.

11-02-2009, 04:25 AM

[. I've never tried to track down any of the cars but would gladly help anyone one who has a car on the page.

[/ QUOTE ]
great idea maybe I will post some of the vin numbers on my
micro and see if any of the numbers are out there.
PJ

William

11-02-2009, 05:58 AM

Let’s approach this analytically.

All of the 19 non-Gibb ZL-1s are accounted for and only #67 no longer exists.

Of the 50 Gibb cars 34 are known to still exist, ranging from complete to basket case.

Of the remaining 16 two almost certainly no longer exist. One is titled to an insurance company after being stolen in ’72; another one is recorded as stolen/junked.

That leaves 14 with sketchy or no history. Of these 2 were still titled last time I checked but could not be verified. Two others were extensively raced and one reportedly crashed; the other is Malcom Durhams’ Strip Blazer which may still exist. Another was shipped to Australia and has been reported as destroyed. One was stolen new in CA. 5 have never shown any registration history.

That leaves the Merollis cars. Merollis Chev in Detroit received 5 Gibb ZL-1s all of which were supposedly stolen. Two were recovered; one junked, another is in restoration. What is odd is that none of the remaining 3 was titled to an insurance company. Either they were not stolen or they were recovered. If the ‘mystery’ Canadian ZL-1 came from Detroit it virtually had to be a Merollis car.

The three are:
#32 N610515 Hugger orange auto
#37 N612963 Fathom green 4 speed
#50 N620498 Le Mans blue auto

The five that have no history:
#10 N608969 Dusk blue auto…may have been DX’d to Van T Chev in VA
#19 N609530 Dusk blue 4-speed
#21 N609651 Dusk blue 4-speed…engine block found in AZ
#45 N618522 Fathom green auto…may have been DX’d to Penske Chev in PA
#48 N618902 Le mans blue 4-speed

Happy huntin’

wwchevy

11-06-2009, 07:36 PM

I absolutely love William's posts. You sir are a number crunching, data analyzing genius. I really appreciate your analytical approach to different scenarios. Even though you make it sound like they weren't really stolen or have been recovered, I still look for the Merollis ZL1's everywhere I go. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

William

11-07-2009, 12:08 AM

Well thanks for the kind words wwchevy!

The Merollis ZL-1s are now titled or registered in Canada. When we could run VINs nation-wide in the '80s ZL-1 #24 N609838 was on record has having been stolen in MA in 1973, recovered and junked. #11 has been in Ohio since the '70s. There is reason to question the legend that they were all stolen at the dealership. Keep lookin'!

Keith Tedford

11-07-2009, 12:41 AM

Wasn't there something a little fishy with these three cars like all registered to the same people or something. Sort of like they were registering something that no longer existed then perhaps build the cars from paperwork. Could be all wrong on this.

Smokey

11-07-2009, 02:09 AM

And wasn't that person that had the register to them selling cars at BJ 2 or 3 years ago?

PeteLeathersac

11-10-2009, 05:46 PM

"...If the ‘mystery’ Canadian ZL-1 came from Detroit it virtually had to be a Merollis car..."

It'd be worth running these Merollis Vins by George at GM Canada Vintage Services!.
Being the car was somehow directed to Nurse Motors by GM Head Office in a non-standard way it's possible the normal procedures weren't followed...but if they were, the Vin should be included on GM Canada microfilm and something George can access!?
And I'm not suggesting George search his records for anything other than specific Vins given and it may cost the fee for each and every one checked so best to start w/ the most probable and go from there?.

On the missing ZL1 cars Vins being registered in Ontario, YES there's something fishy going on and it wouldn't be surprising if they're registered in the same names as other 'interesting' Vins/cars and suspected 'air cars' we've looked at here in past threads?.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
~ Pete

MultiMopars

11-11-2009, 04:36 AM

[ QUOTE ]
"...If the ‘mystery’ Canadian ZL-1 came from Detroit it virtually had to be a Merollis car..."

It'd be worth running these Merollis Vins by George at GM Canada Vintage Services!.
Being the car was somehow directed to Nurse Motors by GM Head Office in a non-standard way it's possible the normal procedures weren't followed...but if they were, the Vin should be included on GM Canada microfilm and something George can access!?
And I'm not suggesting George search his records for anything other than specific Vins given and it may cost the fee for each and every one checked so best to start w/ the most probable and go from there?.

On the missing ZL1 cars Vins being registered in Ontario, YES there's something fishy going on and it wouldn't be surprising if they're registered in the same names as other 'interesting' Vins/cars and suspected 'air cars' we've looked at here in past threads?.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
~ Pete

[/ QUOTE ]

Now there is a term I haven't heard in a long time. I could tell you a story about that term but I will reserve it for another time & place.

midyr

11-11-2009, 04:10 PM

Frank and George do not have anything on record re the Nurse ZL1. My understanding has always been that it was a back-door last-minute rush arrangement, and I would surmise it never got recorded.

midyr

11-11-2009, 11:42 PM

Also, keep in mind that Nurse was the drop off for race stuff only because it was pretty much next door to the factory & head office in Oshawa, and race stuff couldn't go there due to GM's official policy of not participating in or supporting racing.

Keith Tedford

11-12-2009, 08:39 PM

I was told, back in the day, that there were litterally tractor trailer loads of spare stuff sitting behind the south plant parts and service building when there was a big CanAm, TransAm race weekend at Mosport. Never saw this personally, just what I was told at the time. It wouldn't surprise me if it was true.

William

11-12-2009, 09:41 PM

It would surprise a few well-known racers.

Smokey Yunick, Paul Van Valkenburgh and Mark Donahue each wrote books which in part covered their experiences in dealing with Chevrolet in those days. Chevrolet generally provided tech and engineering support; hard parts were another issue. During the '67 season a trailering accident did extensive damage to one of Penskes' Camaros. Donahue had to scrounge junkyards to obtain sheetmetal to repair it. When Engineering finally solved the rocker ball problem Piggins initially refused to send the parts by air claiming they couldn't afford it. When the son of a GM President needed some Corvette parts to repair his car before a race his "connections" got a GM dealer to open his doors on a Sunday and he paid for the parts. He also shopped in junkyards. By the end of the '69 Trans-Am season Penske and Chevy were not on speaking terms. All Penske did was win consecutive championships for them.

All three had the same experience: dealing with Chevrolet was a constant struggle.

Read the books. It was not what you might think.

Keith Tedford

11-13-2009, 12:19 AM

Unless I've seen things for myself, I take them with a grain of salt. I was just wondering if anyone else had heard the story. Doesn't sound like it ever happened judging by these other guys.

midyr

11-13-2009, 12:51 AM

I ain't sayin' nothin'.

PeteLeathersac

11-13-2009, 01:06 AM

"...When the son of a GM President needed some Corvette parts to repair his car before a race his "connections" got a GM dealer to open his doors on a Sunday..."

You're no doubt referring to Tony DeLorenzo and his Owens-Corning Corvette Team...keep in mind another team member for a few rides was none other than our hero Don Yenko!.

Back to the previous subject, I wonder why Bill Nurse was chosen as the 'racing depot' w/ so many other GM dealers in the Oshawa/Whitby/Bowmanville area...some much closer to GM Head Office and/or Mosport!?
Bill Nurse's brother Bob still operates a shop here in Peterboro'...do you happen to know him very well Keith?.
I've tried to relay a few Nurse dealer questions through him before but gotten nowhere...I'll have to try him on again also inquire if anyone recalls anything on the ZL1's too..

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif
~ Pete

William

11-13-2009, 05:24 AM

Yup. They were such insiders they ran Mustangs for the '70 season. I'll bet dad was proud!!

YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY

11-14-2009, 02:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Well thanks for the kind words wwchevy!

The Merollis ZL-1s are now titled or registered in Canada. When we could run VINs nation-wide in the '80s ZL-1 #24 N609838 was on record has having been stolen in MA in 1973, recovered and junked. #11 has been in Ohio since the '70s. There is reason to question the legend that they were all stolen at the dealership. Keep lookin'!

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that #11's brother happened to be in Collinsville on business a few years ago, and walked out to the parking lot of the Holiday Inn after seeing my Deuce through the open side door of the trailer! His brother still has the ZL1. We tried to get him to stay for the racing and the show, and hitch a ride home with Big Steve, but he couldn't hang....