New Project 69 Trans Am - Ram Air III

[TXSS]

I’m just starting a frame off project on a 69 Trans Am Ram Air III and thought some may be interested in seeing a few pictures. Not much to see yet but it's a super solid all original survivor. The body panels and floors are all in excellent condition with only minor surface rust. All original drive train. PHS docs. Same owner for the past 30 years. It's been sitting in his garage for the 15 years. Should be a fun car to restore.

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/0305121123.jpg

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/0305121125b.jpg

[owners2]

That is awesome. Personally I love it & would show it just the way it is. I would also have it certified by Steve Shauger & the Vintage certification Association before tearing it down for a full resto. Great find !

[L78M22Rag]

Whoa, there's not many left in original untouched condition like that. That TA would steal the show everywhere it went... Nice find!!

[Postsedan]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: owners2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That is awesome. Personally I love it &amp; would show it just the way it is. I would also have it certified by Steve Shauger &amp; the Vintage certification Association before tearing it down for a full resto. Great find ! </div></div>

Ditto!

Dan

[Postsedan]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: L78M22Rag</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Whoa, there's not many left in original untouched condition like that. That TA would steal the show everywhere it went... Nice find!! </div></div>

X2!

Dan

[day2killa]

good luck looks like a great project

[Xplantdad]

Very Nice~!

[TXSS]

Thanks for the comments. The TA belongs to a customer and he has wanted to restore it for a long time. I'm a big fan of survivor cars but It may be a little too far gone to pass as a survivor....maybe not but it's not my call. Survivor cars are kind of like green cars. Everybody loves them until it's time to put the $$ down on one and then the love seams to fade. Here are a few more pictures of it in his garage.

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/1.JPG

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/2.JPG

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/3.JPG

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/4.JPG

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/5.JPG

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/6.JPG

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/7.JPG

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/8.JPG

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/9.JPG

[tom406]

I think you called it. Restore that poor neglected thing. You will do a great job! Document with photos and share if you are able. Can't wait to see the finished result.

[StealthBird]

Very cool! 4-speed no console car. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/worship.gif

Some excellent, original parts appear to be still on the car. The Formula steering wheel, with the rare down wings Bird emblem, appears to be the original radio in an uncut dash, rare stacked gauges and in-dash tach, and under the hood I see the original power steering cooler line, and an open-faced alternator.

Looks like it had an alarm system, or an &quot;ahhh-ooo-gah&quot; horn, can't tell which. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif

Would love to see the invoice on the car. It appears the only thing added by the owner were the Ram Air stickers on the hood.

It appears the Ram Air system is gone. Were there any parts remaining?

Everything is reproduced for these cars now, it's just a matter of deciding whether you want Taiwanese repro parts, or original GM stuff.

Excellent find, congrats!!

[Lemans69]

Wow, what a cool car....Can I have the Pioneer Supertuner???

[napa68]

This has all the makings of NJ Steve 2.0! I am going to enjoy this!
SWEET FIND!
Tim

[njsteve]

Very nice!
Start the stopwatch....7 year countdown initiated. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif

[TXSS]

Actually the base trans for a 69 TA was a heavy duty 3 speed, with a 2.85 1st and a 1.68 2nd gear. It still has it's original 3 speed trans. 4 speed was an option. Other than the master cyl, booster, and Carb it's mostly all there. All the Ram Air parts are in the trunk except for the foam. Owner did add an alarm. Also, the PHS docs show it originally came with steel wheels and hub caps.

Thanks for the comments.

[Postsedan]

The PHS docs show it originally came with steel wheels and hub caps........

Even better, JMO.

Dan

[StealthBird]

Even rarer! The 3-speed manual Trans Am's were rare when new, and those that survived into the 70's and 80's usually had a 4-speed transplant.

Things like the master cylinder, booster, exhaust, those items I consider wear-and-tear items. The important stuff is all there. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif

Interesting that someone (perhaps a dealer) would order a 1969 Trans Am without a console, without Rally II's, and with the base 3-speed, yet they ordered the tach and gauge package. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif

Excellent find. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

[Tenney]

Too cool! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

[daverd]

I wish it was mine..........Fantastic car....
love those poverty caps,,,

[RAIIIT/A]

I'd get it running... clean it up a little...cruise it just like it is.... you can leave it in a parking lot and not have to worry about a door ding... How many crusty '69 T/A's do you see running around...

[Fast67VelleN2O]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StealthBird</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Interesting that someone (perhaps a dealer) would order a 1969 Trans Am without a console, without Rally II's, and with the base 3-speed, yet they ordered the tach and gauge package. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif
</div></div>

They saved up enough money for the gauges by not ordering wheels and the 4 speed. LOL!

[MosportGreen66]

I LOVE these cars. Please post photos along the way, please!

[TXSS]

Will do.

[K code Mustang]

Great car, Looking foward to seeing this resto unfold !

[jannes_z-28]

That must be a very rare combo of options.

Jan

[flathood]

Anyone see this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-tTHSIo49U&amp;feature=related

[TXSS]

Here are the PHS invoice and window sticker.

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/ta%20invoice.jpg

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/ta%20w-sticker.jpg

[StealthBird]

Thank you for posting the invoice. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif

Very late production car, and a late delivery, from the extended 1969 model year. By November 1969, the 1970 models had already been out for a several weeks.

Also notice the small window sticker. Pontiac had two sizes. The Firebirds used the smaller version, so all the lettering looks larger than what you would see on a GTO window sticker, but it was the same machine (same sized font) that printed window stickers. Many Firebirds used two window stickers when they were loaded with options, but this Trans Am doesn't have to worry about that. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/wink.gif

[Xplantdad]

Great stuff Rick!

[TXSS]

Thanks Bruce.

Mike, that’s some good info. Please keep it coming.

Should have the body on the rotisserie shortly.

I'm interested in getting a closer look at that firewall. The original BPT stamps are there so who knows what’s behind the grim.

[GTO_DON]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StealthBird</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thank you for posting the invoice. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif

Very late production car, and a late delivery, from the extended 1969 model year. By November 1969, the 1970 models had already been out for a several weeks.

Also notice the small window sticker. Pontiac had two sizes. The Firebirds used the smaller version, so all the lettering looks larger than what you would see on a GTO window sticker, but it was the same machine (same sized font) that printed window stickers. Many Firebirds used two window stickers when they were loaded with options, but this Trans Am doesn't have to worry about that. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/wink.gif </div></div>
I know you know your birds but I dont think any 70 Firebirds started hitting the streets untill march of 70. A friend of mine has a 69 dated later than this one.

[StealthBird]

Don, I was referring to 1970 Pontiacs (and other models and makes) being out for several weeks, not the Birds. I didn't clarify that. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/wink.gif

Production stopped on all 1969 Firebirds in December 1969. The change over in the plant(s) for the 1970 models occurred in January, then the 1970-1/2 Firebirds debuted in late February 1970. So this being an October/November 1969 delivery was very late in the 1969 Firebird model run.

Many of the 1969 Trans Am window stickers took 2 pages, mostly because of that long description of the Trans Am option that Pontiac used, which took up half the window sticker.

<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif

[tom406]

There were obviously issues in the GM production pipeline that year. I just appraised a '70 LT-1 Vette with a really low VIN (70x) and an A14 build. 1970 Corvette production didn't start until January 1970, which I hadn't previously been aware of.

[olredalert]

----You are correct about the 1970 Corvette production. I bought a 70 LT1 ordered for stock that had been delivered to the dealer the day before I found it in the middle of January 1970. Im pretty sure no other dealer in Eastern Massachusetts had any Corvettes prior to that. Cant remember the serial #. Wish I could!!!.....Bill S

[tom406]

This one was a Mulsanne Blue/Blue T top car. Original block but everything else changed. Nobody left these LT-1s alone....

[Dicky]

Rick, Did PMD make a mistake on the window sticker dealer address??? <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif

Thanks.
Dicky

[TXSS]

Thought I would post a few detail pictures of what we've found so far on the Trans Am.

Looks like they did make a mistake on the state

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/ramii.JPG

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/bpt.JPG

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/bpt2.JPG
This was stamped behind the horn relay and there is another &quot;T&quot; under the cowl tag

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/enginecode.JPG
Engine Sufix

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/enginedatecode.JPG
Engine Date Code

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/enginevin.JPG
Engine VIN Stamping

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/m13.JPG
Original FoMoCo (Ford) HD 3 speed top loader. A.K.A. Dearborn M13

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/fomoco.JPG

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/transvin.JPG
Trans VIN Stamping

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/transtag.JPG
Trans Tag

More to come....

Thanks

[Charley Lillard]

I did not know they used a ford trans in a Firebird. Learned something new.

[TXSS]

I was sure surprised when I removed it and saw FoMoCo cast into the housing. I was dreading telling the owner that his #'s TA had a ford trans in it. But after a little research and finding the vin stamped on the side it's correct and original. It appears that only around 15 of the 690+ were built with the Dearborn M13 HD 3 speed. Wonder how many are left.

Also, it looked like some kind of shade tree conversion. As you can see from the marks on the bell housing it’s mounted somewhat counter wonkie, slightly twisted to the left. However, the shifter lines up perfect in the hole. Both the bell housing and the trans have a double bolt pattern...weird but cool.

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/bell.JPG

[PxTx]

Between the Ford Truck hood scoop being OE on the Pontiacs and now this trans, I am wondering who was the Ford fan at GM/Pontiac?

Thanks for sharing the info wiht pics!

[mockingbird812]

If I recall the top loader shift linkage and handle were mounted to the trannies so that they tilt toward the driver (60s ergonomics?)<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif. Or, I could be imagining the whole thing! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/laugh.gif

[jannes_z-28]

According to a Pontiac Guru I know the 3-speed Top Loader was standard for the HiPerf Pontiacs since the GM 3-speed couldn't handle the torque.

Not that many cars were delivered with it. If you ordered a HiPerf car you most certainly choosed a 4-speed or an auto.

Jan

[MosportGreen66]

Thats so cool. Did not know, thanks!

[Stefano]

Interesting info!

[Brewster]

Cool pictures and did not know that about the M13 Top loader. Learn something new every time I surf.
Keep those pics coming,
Brew

[StealthBird]

There's a great looking 69 RAIV Trans Am at RK Motors in Charlotte right now. Some interesting before and after pics too.

1969 RAIV Trans Am (http://www.rkmotorscharlotte.com/sales/inventory/active#!/1969-Pontiac-Firebird-Trans-Am/132913)

<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif

[HO455]

Wow Mike-that is a beautiful RAIV TA. I found my dream car on their site. It looks like Troy Thornton restored it. The only thing that could make it better would be if it were black &amp; gold! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/3gears.gif

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&amp;v=qSYi1FxdT7w

[RM Schimel]

Are they serious on that price for the 1969 RAIV Trans Am coupe? They need to come back down to earth. In this economy, 400K for a 69 TA convertible would be a more realistic proposition. RM

[TXSS]

&quot; an original Muncie M-21 close ratio 4-speed transmission, which was inspected during the car’s restoration and deemed just fine the way it is,&quot; Are you kidding me, they didn't rebuild the M-21. For 400K you should get a tranny that's fresh with nearly zero miles on it.

[RAIIIT/A]

I kinda liked the way it looked prior to the restoration.... now its just another museum piece... boring...

[jbsides]

Rick,

Totally agree they should have zeroed out that trans. Did you take a pass through all the pre-resto pics of that car? It was used hard and put away wet as they say, but the absolutely positive aspect IMO is that it was close to complete. Given what you know first hand about bringing a car that rough back to that level of quality, what do you think RK has in it? 125K, 150K, more? Primarily their labor I would think, but how badly would they have gotten tagged for the missing and hard to find stuff? That is the crap that has killed me.

JB

[TXSS]

I can’t say what kind of $ amount RK has in the car but if I pay 400K for a car it better not have had the frame and rear-end wire wheeled and painted in somebody’s driveway.

I’ve posted some additional pictures after I got the TA apart and on the rotisserie. One thing I noticed was that the underside appears to have been original painted a bluish/gray color. You can clearly see it where I’ve remove brackets, some of the undercoating and through the grease where there was no undercoating. Has anyone seen this color used before. Also heavy white overspray on the outer frame rails, heavy enough to maybe have been painted white.


http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/blu1.JPG

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/blu2.JPG

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/blue3.JPG

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/overspray.JPG

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/Hidvin.JPG

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/inside.JPG

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/frame.JPG


http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/rotis1.JPG

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/rotis2.JPG

[SuperNovaSS]

Looks like a restorer's dream.


Jason

[markjohnson]

Very good chance that this car was ordered by a serviceman with the &quot;Fort Leonardwood SPUR&quot; reference on the docs. That's a large military base here in Missouri.

[William]

What a great car to restore!

Looks like the LH muffler bracket was torch-cut for some reason?

[70 copo]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TXSS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I can’t say what kind of $ amount RK has in the car but if I pay 400K for a car it better not have had the frame and rear-end wire wheeled and painted in somebody’s driveway.

I’ve posted some additional pictures after I got the TA apart and on the rotisserie. One thing I noticed was that the underside appears to have been original painted a bluish/gray color. You can clearly see it where I’ve remove brackets, some of the undercoating and through the grease where there was no undercoating. Has anyone seen this color used before. Also heavy white overspray on the outer frame rails, heavy enough to maybe have been painted white.


http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/blu1.JPG

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/blu2.JPG

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/blue3.JPG

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/overspray.JPG

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/Hidvin.JPG

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/inside.JPG

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/frame.JPG


http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/rotis1.JPG

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/rotis2.JPG </div></div>


Looks like standard off grey Norwood body primer - I have seen it before. Has a blueish tint that is also sometimes greenish too, also sometimes a shade darker or lighter.

[Brewster]

Was the Primer mixed on site (colors) or just purchased per blended by different vendors?

[70 copo]

Formulated off site and mixed on site with drum rollers prior to application.

[70 copo]

Insufficient roller and mix time would be one way to explain the color and consistency variation from car to car.

[Enoch]

As far as 1st gen camaros norwood built cars hab black paint on the floors while la built cars had grey floors. Don't know if this applies to firebirds.

Rich

[Brewster]

Thanks, Texture is pretty consistent its just the color mix ratios that seem to flex once in a while.
Cheers, Brew

[m22mike]

Norwood cars had some floorpan blackout and allot of gray primer aft of the axel area. And I agree, your most likely seeing gray primer.

Mike

[TXSS]

That would confirm what I'm seeing. No gray primer forward of the axle area.

[Andy S]

What would you recomend useing to recreate the gray?

[firstgenaddict]

The 69 TA's being Norwood built would have the same overspray and same primer colors as the Camaro's built in a similar time frame. Here is a 04C Norwood Camaro trunk drop offs and rear frame rails

Pass rear quarter lower lip and trunk drop off
http://inlinethumb07.webshots.com/51462/2610246900059464720S600x600Q85.jpg

Drivers rear trunk drop off

http://inlinethumb58.webshots.com/52601/2359684590059464720S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb04.webshots.com/1539/2368492000059464720S600x600Q85.jpg

The axle kick up where the seat belt anchors are located shows quite a bit of grey primer as well.

http://inlinethumb06.webshots.com/51845/2531038620059464720S600x600Q85.jpg

Tbe best showing I could find.


http://inlinethumb34.webshots.com/47713/2390722000059464720S600x600Q85.jpg

[TXSS]

I posted some updated pictures of the 69 Trans Am restoration. Hope you enjoy them.

There is some additional pictures HERE (http://www.texasbuiltmusclecars.com/current-projects.html) as well. Just scroll down to the Trans Am pics

Thanks
Rick

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/primrotis.jpg

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/frame1.JPG

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/frame2.JPG

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/frame3.JPG

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/frame4.JPG

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/frame5.JPG

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/Frame6.JPG

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/bod1-001.JPG

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/bod2-001.JPG

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/bod3-001.JPG

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/bod4-001.JPG

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/bod5-001.JPG

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/bod6-001.JPG

http://texasbuiltmusclecars.com/69%20Trans%20Am/bod7-001.JPG

[Xplantdad]

Looks great Rick!

[TXSS]

Thanks Bruce. You're always the first to have a good word.

[njsteve]

Nice! Great to see the progress moving along.

[RicksFormula]

Hey Rick, this is another Rick in Texas. Great project, I didn't get to read thru all the pages yet so maybe this has been asked but the front right wheel on the passenger side has the larger inner ring of a JW/KN/KR coded Rally II. Would definitely be worth looking at in case it is one of those codes.

[napa68]

That is going to be killer! Looks great!

Tim

[TXSS]

Thanks for the comments. Should have it back in my shop by Monday.

[Gui]

VERY VERY COOL!!

[Steve_Hoog]

Too cool and nice work.

Personally I would have left this one as is; but I respect you are giving it a proper work over <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif

[RicksFormula]

any updates on this cars progress?

[69VN]

Spectacular car ! We love pics here at sYc! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif

[CanCOPO]

It is spectacular. Not to mention the 71 Cuda and Pro touring Camaro sitting next to it. Pretty good when you pull up to Rick's shop in a 69 Z and you're at the bottom of the barrel. Awesome work Rick.