1 of 108 69 Convertible Judges

[Steve_Hoog]

Do you remember the Knafel car that stirred up a hornet's nest many years ago; well the same owner has one of these convertibles and it is a very strange Judge with low options. It is also up on Ebay and I'll list that too.

Gary Daniels is the owner and his number is 918-231-1767 Tulsa Oklahoma.

VIN: 242679B166725

PHS:
http://www.428gto.com/gto/166725/b.jpg

http://www.428gto.com/gto/166725/a.jpg

http://www.428gto.com/gto/166725/c.jpg

This car has been in Gary's storage building for close to two decades; he finally came to his senses and decided to part with it so someone will put it back where it should be.

Reserve is $49,500.00 and was a just a few grand short of that on the first day.

Hope you enjoy seeing this and watching the auction.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Pontiac-G...c6a721a16#v4-42 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Pontiac-GTO-JUDGE-CONVERTIBLE-1969-PONTIAC-GTO-JUDGE-CONVERTIBLE-PHS-DOCUMENTED-/190764423702?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item2c6a721a16 #v4-42)

[olredalert]

----Steve,,,Judges (the car kind, in this case) often confuse me. Why would an auto, RAIII, low option 69 Judge convert in this condition command this kind of coin???......Bill S

[Steve_Hoog]

Only 108 were made per information shared by Fred Simmons of GM; if memeory serves me correct on Fred doing that research. I think only ballpark of two dozen are known to exist. Not as elusive as the 17 1971's; but still rare as they come for Pontiacs.

[tjs44]

a column shift auto car in this condition?CRAZY IMO,Tom

[tjs44]

a nicely DONE 4 speed car sold at Meecum a couple weeks ago for 135K,maybe if someone could do all his own body and paint he might be able to come out alive.tom

[Steve_Hoog]

Yes, saw that car.

The add list "455/366 Ram Air III engine" and "Documentation includes the window sticker" but does not include such paperwork in the listing; would have been much nicer to see the PHS on this car just for authenticity.

http://www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_detail.cfm?LOT_ID=AN1112-139566

[tjs44]

I viewed the car in person at Anaheim and a PY board member bought it.Nice clean car,im sure it was a 400 RA III car.There was info on PY about the car.Tom

[Steve_Hoog]

Tom

Too bad the days of a quick opportunity have long left this hobby, many years ago at that. Gary said there was a nice unrestored black ragtop on Ebay that went for a little more than the Mecum car in the last year; I prefer the black Judge anyday.

[tjs44]

Steve,I hope the car goes for great money for the seller.Just to me after doing a car last year this is a huge project unless a rebody.A good car when done but even a convert Judge the combination of the auto and column shift although making it even more rare IMO is not as desirable.Tom

[jbsides]

Tom, I sold a complete (faded) orange '69 Judge vert in '88 for $3750. I remember the exact amount because it was listed in the PennySaver in Hermosa Beach for $5K, and I was lowering the price every couple weeks until it sold. It was down to $2500 when a guy, who must have been looking at a previous edition, called and asked if the "69 Judge convertible was still available for $3750. Have you seen an orange one around? Went local.

Not as bad as NJSteve's HemiCuda 'vert sale, but...

[olredalert]

----My point exactly, Tom! I would think it might be real hard to find a buyer for what a guy might have in it at the end of the resto......Bill S

[Steve_Hoog]

A couple of things: not so much from this forum but a couple of others following it.

First this is a supposed to be a hobby, not a business. Right? I know the answer to that; I’m being sarcastic because I don’t like what this hobby has turned into.

What is was and what it should be was that someone saw a car they wanted to have and bought it; they fixed it up to enjoy both as they envisioned it and the challenge of getting it there. But the opportunist have turned this hobby into the complete opposite; which is why most people now look at a car like this for what it’s worth instead of what it should be, “can I have fun with this car”.

Second; this car is not in that bad a shape! It doesn’t need a trunk pan, probably only needs minor patch panels on the qtr’s, one floor pan patch, and the frame is probably close to perfect! Lest we forget this is an untouched convertible that is 43 years old <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif

[olredalert]

----I understand what you are saying, Steve. I am upside down on more than one vehicle in the stable. I like them and am not worried about value. I guess I was trying (badly, Ill admit) to make the point that, if need be, it would be hard for a hobbiest or a dealer to climb out from under the expense of this Judge once restored.
----As far as shape goes, I guess thats subjective. Expense on this one isnt only in the rust although thats a goodly part of it looking at the pics......Bill S

[Steve_Hoog]

Bill

I have never once &quot;not&quot; been upside down in any of my toys <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/frown.gif

That's because I go at it for the enjoyment; of course I second guess myself when I take a bath, but hey you only live once.

This convertible is just plain ugly and that is a bigger part of the perception than the actual rust issues. Like I said above; this car literally turned my stomach when I first saw it near a couple of decades ago, and I personally would never have considered doing this one because I hate convertibles. But if the choice were based on the small amount of rust; I wouldn't have an issue at all.

[Mr70]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Steve_Hoog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...and I personally would never have considered doing this one because I hate convertibles.</div></div>


Why?

[Steve_Hoog]

I've had a couple of them and I just flat out don't feel safe in them doing triple digits.

[novadude]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Steve_Hoog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A couple of things: not so much from this forum but a couple of others following it.

First this is a supposed to be a hobby, not a business. Right? I know the answer to that; I’m being sarcastic because I don’t like what this hobby has turned into.

What is was and what it should be was that someone saw a car they wanted to have and bought it; they fixed it up to enjoy both as they envisioned it and the challenge of getting it there. But the opportunist have turned this hobby into the complete opposite; which is why most people now look at a car like this for what it’s worth instead of what it should be, “can I have fun with this car”.

</div></div>

Very well said! Working on them and driving them is 100% of the fun. I still view my car as a hobby, not as an investment, but then I don't have a &quot;1-of-109&quot; desirable car either.

[The Boss]

It's not 1 of 109 it's 1 of 29.

Pontiac only built 29 Automatic Judge Convertibles in 1969.....how many have you seen?

[tjs44]

the journey is the reward!Tom

[Steve_Hoog]

4h 51m 31s to go.
$49,400.00
10,391 views.......

[427.060]

To me, it looks like the high bidder knew the reserve. Either they are a member of a forum that this was posted on or there was some shill bidding going on. I'm not making any accusations but it's mighty convenient that the bidding stopped just $100 short of the reserve. JMO
James

[Steve_Hoog]

Absolutely no doubt some or someone knew and was bidding short of the bid. The thing about the forum aspect is this is the only forum and public place the reserve was posted. The seller could not figure out who it was; he thought he knew and called the guy, but the guy denied it. I personally did make a dreamful bid; but this car is way out of my league.

Aside from that, the car sold. Seller got a call one minute before it ended from a buyer that said his computer froze up right before he was going to bid. After it ended without reserve being met they worked out a deal.

The big question is now which car will he pull out next for sale; I am poking him for a RA III 69 HT Judge or one of his 71 HT Judges. I know he wants to sell both HO's but I think he's going to wait on that.

[The Boss]

What about all the F-body HO's? You can't swing a dead cat around that place without hitting a round port motor of some kind. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/wink.gif

[firstgenaddict]

1988 - 69 Judge conv for 3500...
At that same time period Milt Robson was offering 35k or a flip keys for a 69 T/A RAIV M21 coupe as trade for my friends 70 Judge conv RAIII M21 4.33 with 42k miles.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-A52TLozeG7s/UPL0_kmxp_I/AAAAAAAABLY/jf5mHwEyRTA/s604-Ic42/2676_1095276309473_2401343_n.jpg