Dealer-built ZL1 454 (yes, 454) Chevelle topic on TC

[Rainer]

Hey guys -

Thought some of you would find this discussion topic from Team Chevelle of interest here.

www.chevelles.com/forum/Forum2/HTML/005096.html (http://www.chevelles.com/forum/Forum2/HTML/005096.html)


[Edited by Rainer (02-27-2001 at 01:15 PM).]

[COPO]

Fascinating post, guess it time to put up or shut up as far as the paperwork goes. Price seems low for the mods involved.

[tmilecki]

how about a package deal, the 70 454 ZL1 and that $100,000.00 Yenko Chevelle that was on Ebay.

[bowtie3168]

I read the info on the link to "Team Chevelle". I never like to tell people that they are wrong ,but, I think that the story has probably gotten out of control.
Andrew

[tmilecki]

I agree, I had a friend who would call that a fish story. Meaning that a gold fish turned into a trophy fish.

[COPO]

This is the right place and you're welcome to post. It is such a unique post that many are skeptical due to the many tall tales told in our hobby. I think posting the paperwork you have would help. If you do not own a scanner, you might try a Kinko's or similiar copy center. They will normally scan documents for about a $1 per sheet. Scanners are down to $100 now.

[Belair62]

Never know what individual dealers were up to back then....Mr70 what dealership was involved with this ?

[GMH454]

Read the posts and find it hard to believe that such a major find could lay hidden for so long. The magazines were always hunting up new interesting angles, and it is interesting that even though the car was built for racing it never made the news. Or did it. Maybe you need to hunt up local drag literature and talk to some of the old time racers in your area. Shouldn't be too hard to turn someone up. People usually remember cars with alloy blocks. They were VERY rare. Also didn't usually last very long.
The cars class was probably weight limited anyway so a cast iron block would probably make more sense.

[tmilecki]

Sorry, Did not mean to offend anyone. I just finished reading an article in Muscle Car review about a guy with a 71 El Camino with a copo 427 in it. Muscle car review set him straight. Im skeptical, but anything is possable.

[Mr70]

The selling Dealer is Ray Ridge in Trenton Michigan.They changed names numerous times and then relocated down the street.Today they are Rogers Chevrolet in WoodHaven MI.They have absolutely no records of any cars from back then.The original building has been destroyed.I want to show all the detailed descriptions in the paper work I have.But The scan won't get that close up.I will post the best quality I can get.Appreciate some of you guys listening before passing negative comments.But I do understand where you are coming from.
I will be at ChevyVettefest this Weekend March 3-4..I won't bring my car but can bring copies of this paperwork.If anyone else is going I'd be happy to share it with you there.It reads better in person.

[Edited by mr70 (03-01-2001 at 09:26 AM).]

[bowtie3168]

Mr70,
Please don't think that I am being too difficult. I always feel that there is a chance of anything being true. I am very interested in seeing the paperwork that you have on the car. Here is an example of how things get presented in the wrong way: I was discussing Z-16 info with a racer from the track , the racer told me that he had taken delivery of one of the 201 1965 Chevelles equipped with the Z-16 option. While we were discussing the specifics of the option he told me that the car was factory equipped with a 12 bolt Positraction rear differential,Z-16s had a special "open" rear. When I told the racer that this was not possible he went so far (to prove his point) that he dug out old info that he had on the car. When he did some research he finally remembered that he had changed the rear. Do you see "where I am coming from"?
Andrew

[bowtie3168]

Mr 70,
I want you to know that I am in NO way trying to tell you that you are wrong! I checked out your web-site. Nice Cranberry Red Chevelle!
Andrew

[Rainer]

I too have had a high regard for this site, but in this case there were some knee-jerk reactions to this post that disappointed me. By saying its "probably gotten out of control" and its a "fish story" sure sounds like Rick was being told he was wrong. He spends a ton of time on Team Chevelle and is one of THE most knowledgeable individuals on 70 Chevelles that I have come across in 3+ years on the site. I've seen the scans of his paperwork, and I'd say an apology is in order from a few people here once he posts the documentation.

[GMH454]

Love the talk about paperwork. Almost makes me believe that it is always true. Corvette guys have been faking it for years, usually from a defunct dealer or moved dealer or...... Lets hope that some original public domain docs, drag papers, magazines, advertisment from general newspaper, etc come out.
Funny that all the others have disappeared as well.
If this can be verified it would be a legitimate challenger to the Motions.
I'll keep my fingers crossed.
Terry

[Mr70]

I can understand your Skeptical about this.I only ask that you keep an open mind.I will post the documents I have from the Dealership as soon as I locate a scanner.I am not as computer savy as most, and have limited time on this one now.So far I've heard good things about this website in the past.I realize this is not a Don Yenko or Joel Rosen car so hope that doesn't exclude me from this website.I would like to know if anyone here has seen or heard of these cars? I'm not looking to stir the pot.Just wishing to discuss this intelligently.Or is this the wrong place for that?

[Edited by mr70 (03-01-2001 at 12:45 PM).]

[Belair62]

Good point Rainer. Maybe we are too fast in dismissing these new stories.As I said in a previous post,who knows what these individual dealers were up to.Mr 70 is willing to post the back-up info so all can see and discuss.I for one would love to see this turn out to be true.If you can't post questions/stories to learn more or try and verify things then people will have the right to say this board is just a bunch of "experts" & "know-it-alls" and we all know thats not true.You never know,that old 70 Chevelle race car you saw behind the barn with glass fenders that you passed of as just an old tired competitor may be a.......

[Rainer]

Thanks Belair62. Trust me guys, I don't have much tolerance either when it comes to bogus claims and tall tales based on word of mouth or someone's memory going back 20+ years. There is some paperwork here, so like Rick asked, just keep an open mind 'til he gets his scans up. Healthy skepticism is good, rigid denial keeps the hobby from advancing.

As far as substantiating the claim further, here's a great opportunity to take advantage of the power of the internet and recruit someone in the Detroit area (Trenton is less than 10 mi. outside of the Detroit metro area) who is willing to head to their local library and dig through some microfilm of 1970-era Detroit newspapers to see if any ads can be found for Ray Ridge Chevy. Also, its probably likely that some of the former dealership employees are still in the area, and they could help substantiate this as well. How about a dragstrip in the Trenton area?

Think about this - how many other potential new discoveries are we missing out on because someone is immediately considered full of sh!t and their story dismissed simply because it doesn't fit in with what we already know? Again, all I'm encouraging is healthy skepticism and an open mind. OK, I'm off my soapbox now http://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/wink.gif

[Mr70]

I was able to post the Documents this week.Please Click on post to view.
www.chevelles.com/forum/Forum2/HTML/005096.html (http://www.chevelles.com/forum/Forum2/HTML/005096.html)

[Edited by mr70 (03-29-2001 at 06:22 PM).]

[Belair62]

Very interesting Rick....unbelievable what a dealer would do for a customer back then.I bet there are folks trying to sniff one of these out right now !

[whitetop]

The one sheet were it listed all the performance modifications looks just like it came right out of a Baldwin Motion catalog As a matter of fact the options are right out of a B/M catalog.i.e. Mallory ignition, Inglewood tires, 3 bl Holley, real wood steering wheel, c-D ignition, injector drive for Holley, Sun gauge package and on & on.... B/M had very specific items they were known for and the above items as well as the others were it.

If the dealer did all the mods such as adding fiberglass fenders etc. why did they leave the headers in the trunk??

I'm still skeptical.

whitetop

[Edited by whitetop (03-30-2001 at 08:59 AM).]