1971 BALDWIN MOTION CAMARO

[69motion]

Anyone know who ownes the 71 b/m car in this months hemmings its red with black strips LS7
HONE O DRIVE M-22 ECT. IM INTERESTED IN BUYING IT what is it worth ??? thanks jeff

[COPO]

Hard to put a value on these as they don't sell often. There was a 73 RS Camaro w/454 fully restored that was for sale about a year ago. Asking price was ~ $65,000 heard it sold for ~ $50,000. Restoration was overseen by Mr. Motion.

[Chevy454]

I don't have my Hemmings here with me, but is it a Nebraska phone #? If so, it might be the one that Frank Payne ( Flying "A" Restorations (http://www.radiks.net/~fpcopo/) ) restored. Here is a link to that car: HERE (http://www.radiks.net/~fpcopo/baldwincamaro.html)

Don't know if it's the same one, but it might worth checking with Frank to see.

[69motion]

thanks guys that is the same car flying a did does anyone else know more info thanks jeff

[bowtie3168]

I will get Frank to reply guys.

[fpcopo]

We restored that car in 1992. I have known the car since '73. It is documented and has all the right stuff in it except for a 12 bolt that replaced the original 10 bolt. The car hasn't been driven maybe 50 miles since restored which is good since the funky Hone OD mount will break if you even lightly tap on the gas. The paint job isn't very nice. (We didn't do it) It is a real nice car though with a real strong fresh engine and it only has about 9,000 miles.
E mail me if you need more info. FP

[Belair62]

Jeff,sounds to me like the broker is the one who stiffed you...maybe you should post some more info so people will be more cautious.

[sixtiesmuscle]

I certainly don't know all the circumstances you refer to Jeff, but, when a car is openly advertised for sale for a couple of months, and you haven't closed the deal, how can you be upset with anyone who acts faster than you? If you had a deal done in your mind, why did you have to ask people on this site what the car was worth? I want everyone to get the car of their dreams, but, you have to act fast when the opportunity arises. I have lost many cars buy "snoozing & losing". That's just part of the deal in a competitive buying market. That said, sorry you didn't win this time. Better luck next time.

[69motion]

UPDATE !!!!I WAS FIRST IN LINE TO BUY THIS CAR THE BROKER SELLING THIS CAR CAME TO A AGREED PRICE THE OWNER HAD TO AGREE TO IT BUT IT WAS MY CAR!!!! I TOLD ANOTHER PERSON ON THIS SITE WHO I THOUGHT WAS A FRIEND AND ASKED HIS OPINION ABOUT THIS CAR LITTLE DID I KNOW HE WOULD BUY IT OUT FROM UNDER ME!! IM NOT RICH LIKE SOME OF YOU. BUT ALL THE MONEY IN THE WORLD CAN NOT BUY YOU CLASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THANKYOU ALL WHO HELPED ME JEFF

[Dan 68 Chevy II]

Jeff,sorry to here you got screwed out of this car because you were opened ,honested and trusting .Since your not in this elite,secreted ,wads of money group and ask a question to help you determine the value of this car you end up looseing on a once in a life time opportunity.I bought a car that shows definit signs of Being Motion and people play their stupid little games ,I don't.I'm in the process of getting the car tubbed and making it a pro street since.I will cover up all original markings and imfo that can be seen now and THE OlD MOTION .

[MikeA]

69motion

I do not know all the details but sorry to hear what happen to you. I more or less agree with sixtiesmuscle with respect to the snoozing & losing thing. However, in my opinion, that applies to people that are not your œfriends”. As you are now aware, you have to be real careful whom you tell about your œfinds”.

[sixtiesmuscle]

I know we're splitting hairs here, but, NOTHING is a "find" when it is advertised in Hemmings. That car was for sale for a month before it even hit Hemmings. As far as someone announcing to the world that they are interested in a car, or, are "first in line", until a deal is signed & paid for, IMO an advertised car is open game. I have had friends tell me they were interested inan advertised car. If I was also interested, we either " worked it out", or at least agreed not to get into a bidding war. If someone wants to see pictures, or, make arrangements to go see a car, and someone else is willing to pull the trigger, what can you do? In the end, it is only a car, and, there is always another one. Problem is, on the really good deals, one has to move fast or take a back seat. Maybe sad, but, true. I still don't think you can get mad at someone who is in a position to do a deal on the spot. That particular car would have been sold to several people [me included] within 48 hours no matter what. Better that a "friend" get it than a stranger. That's just how I view it.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

69motion;
Sorry to hear of your misfortune, but did you put a 'healthy' deposit on it? A deposit legally gives you first right to purchase by holding the seller's offer open to you until reasonable lapse of time or your decision not to purchase. The deposit must also be given back, except for irregular circumstances. Of course, the seller can renig on your deposit, then you can sue him....but it at least gives you some time to decide.

I have not purchased a lot of cars over the years, but when I 'find' something I want, I don't mess around. It is good to do you research before you look for that once in a lifetime purchase. I purchased my Yenko just days before it hit Hemmings. I had overnighted 10% of the purchase price to him several days before I went to look at it, and although I was shocked out of my 48hour lack of sleep stupor by the condition - 20 minutes later I owned it.

I don't think you can blame anyone, richer or poorer, who basically decides to purchase something quicker than someone else. I have seen this happen at Carlisle, while one guy is thinking about it and talking it over with his buddies - another guy walks up and hands over the cash, done deal! The 'thinker' was still talking about the car when the new owner fired it up and drove it away.

Nobody likes to hear about a car getting 'taken out from under' someone, but I think Sixtiesmuscle is right - 'pull the trigger'.
M

[Edited by YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY (07-05-2001 at 09:38 AM).]

[bowtie3168]

I just want to say that we should not say anything negative about another member's income level. I have been treated well by some of the wealthiest and poorest members of this club. We all are different types of guys from different levels of life, we all have this common interest, lets keep income level out of this site.

Andrew

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Good call Andrew, no need to stereotype people by any characteristic.
M

[SuperCars]

This car was featured in April/May 1996 Musclecar Review. It was on back to back pages with my 68 DANA Camaro. It has been on my wish list ever since. My first attempt to buy it was in 1998 in a call direct to the owner. It was not for sale at that time. When Jeff called asking about a value on a 71 B/M Camaro, I did not realize it was the same car. I called the broker just to seek info and he said the car had been listed for 1 to 2 months but had no takers. The Hemmings ad was generating some calls but no one committed either verbally or with a deposit. He said it would be mine on the spot if I just said the word. I told him not now I would check back later if no one else did. In the interim I called the owner explaining I had called several years ago to buy the car, and he said yes but now it has to go through the broker. I said I understand that but was calling to learn about more details on the car, to which he answered. The following day I checked back in with the broker to see what had transpired. He said no one comitted and no deposits were sent. He had approximately 10 serious players on the car and said it could sell at any moment. I pulled the trigger. I felt justfied in doing so as I not only had I tried buying the car in the past; I also recognized anyone of 10 different collectors would have done it if I didn't.

[Belair62]

Congrats. Sounds like a nice car to have.I remeber there was a B/M Camaro at a dealer that sold early this year if I remeber correctly. I thought about it a few days before I decided to call...bad move...gone.I guess if no deposit was placed you can't really blame the broker either. His job is to get the green !

[sixtiesmuscle]

Just a note on the '73 MOTION Camaro that sold earlier in New York. It was NOT sold at Baldwin Motor Company, but, at another Long Island dealer. I know Baldwin went out of business somewhere around then. Does anybody know for sure when? The car sold for 60 I believe, and without being a true Baldwin/Motion sold car, was probably a pretty good price. That car was for sale for a while, and, I think there were a lot of players on it until the dealer origin was made known. Still a nice car at a good price, but, probably not with the long term collector value of a '71 sold at Baldwin and converted by Motion.

[COPO]

What was the asking price of the '71 BM Camaro that sold?



[Edited by COPO (07-06-2001 at 03:33 PM).]

[Belair62]

Thats why I waited Sixties...had to ask you about it first !!!!

[69motion]

Im sorry if i affended anyone i talked to the broker he was supposed to go to the owner to go over the deal i called at 4 oclock eastern time as agreed on by the broker and I when I called he said the car was sold and money was already wired i asked him if a certain person bought it he said yes my bank ck for the deposit was on the table as i called . im not a sore loser or a stroker. ive bought 20 to 30 cars from hemmings i know how the game works i just dont play games. i will never buy from that broker again. money and cars do not mean enough to me to sell your sole. honor above all jeff

[JoeC]

I have read that Baldwin Auto Sales changed hands around 1972. If you read the ebay ad for the 1973 Motion Chevelle they do call it a "Baldwin Motion Chevelle" but reading the documentation provided in the ad I did not see anything about Baldwin. The docs show a correspondence between Motion Performance and the original owner over a period from Oct. 3 1972 to Mar 30 1973. There is also a letter dated Aug 13 1990 from Joel where he refers to it as a Baldwin/Motion Chevelle.

[whitetop]

Kevin
I hope you put a set of Cragars or aluminum slots on the car. Stock wheels never look good on a Motion car. I have never seen any in the old pics with stock wheels on them to boot-not to say there was never any.
whitetop

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Kevin;
Congrats, it certainly looks like a nice car. I remember the magazine article from MCR-Hot Dealer Dynamite, I think they also did another feature/drive bio on John Scanelli's (sp) Motion Camaro in a later issue?

69motion: If my memory serves me right, the Scanelli car was also up for sale within the last year or two. It's worth the research!
Marlin

[SuperCars]

Whitetop-Dave,
Yes, that is the plan to change to Aluminum Slot mags. Never did care for the factory wheels on it. Glad you agree, as I don't ever recall a Baldwin Motion keeping its stock wheels either.

Marlin,
Yes, that car was on the front cover of MCR Oct/Nov 97 issue. John Scanelli of Norfolk Va, is in white pages at 757-627-5882. I don't know if it is the same John Scanelli though, I've never talked to him before. I am going to email you with another question about another car. Kevin.

[Fhakya]

So do we get to see some good pics of this car when you take possession? Sounds like perfect material for the 'Featured Cars' section. I first heard about the Motion Cars in the late '80's (when I was about 14) and have been obsessed ever since. Great score!

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

69motion;
I hope your bidding on the Motion Camaro on EBAY, it's the one that used to be owned by John Scanelli in Norfolk, VA.
M

[Bob Jenkins]

after 41 bids and 1.0 hour left the top bid is $65,000 - reserve met...it looks like it will go to a new home http://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=594519103&r=0&t=0

[Chevy454]

Well, looks like it ended up at $65K. Anyone know who the lucky guy is?

[Fhakya]

Just looking at the (0) after the username, I'm wondering if it REALLY did go to a new home.?? Hopefully it wasn't just a made up username to test the reserve.

[Dan 68 Chevy II]

I think your right,I was thinking the same thing,notice this guy only bid right at the end.Very low price for a well documented Motion car in excellent shape.

[JoeC]

Thats a 20K 1971 Z/28 Camaro with a 45K Motion history. The ad claims Ertl used this for the diecast but the Ertl car has the Cragar wheels, Corvette side pipes, single stripe down center, and is a 1970 SS 396 car http://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/crazy.gif I wonder if the car really came with the rally wheels from Motion. Most of the sec gen Motion Camaros in the old magazines had aftermarket wheels. It seems odd that someone would order a high priced Phase III Camaro with Rally Wheels. It is still a cool looking car and a part of Muscle Car history. IMO

[whitetop]

That car was in Hot Rod mag back in late '70's It had Cragars on it. It was not featured but was part of a tech article on how to buy a musclecar.
Dave

[Fhakya]

Whitetop, do you remember which HR issue by chance?

[whitetop]

I will try to find it in the next week or so. I believe the cover had a pro street yellow '70 Chevelle on it. The car photos were taken at a Pa. used car lot that dealt with musclecars only. Looks like it had 14x6 Cragars front and 15x8 deep dish reverse rear. Tom Scanlon? who recently owned the car said it was his car that was in the photos. The issue may have even beeen from '80 or early '81.There was 2-3 photos of the car and the car lot owner said it was his rarest car on the lot. IMO it looks 100% better with the Cragars.
Dave

[whitetop]

Here are several pictures of the same car in the Nov. 80 issue of Hot Rod magazine.It is interesting to note that the majority of the cars on the lot had mags/wide tires. This is how it was in the '70's.

Dave

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1314220&a=9759268&p=53808035

[Edited by whitetop (09-05-2001 at 09:00 AM).]

[JoeC]

Dave, you have a great memory thanks for posting. Now that I see the picture I do also remember seeing it and probably have that mag. It looks more like a Motion Car with the Cragar SS wheels then with the rallys.

[Fhakya]

My god! Could you imagine finding this car on a used car lot today? Wow.

[Dan 68 Chevy II]

It's for sale again on ebay 595525705.

[Chevy454]

OK, now I'm confused...did this car sell, or didn't it? I need a score card to keep up with this one... http://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif

CAR DID NOT SELL LAST TIME ON E-BAY. THE CAR WAS PART OF A COLLECTION PURCHASE. I WAS TOLD THAT THE HIGH BIDDER E-MAILED THE SELLER AND APOLOGIZED AND STATED HE NEVER INTENDED TO BUY THE CAR. 2ND HIGHEST BIDDER BAILED ALSO. I OFFERED HIM 55K. RESERVE I AM GUESSING WILL BE AT 60K THIS TIME.