2002 ZL1 Camaro's

[Charley Lillard]

I assume that most of you out there have seen the Prototype ZL1 Camaro that GMMG built. I also know that a few People that check in here have ordered one. Maybe those of you that have ordered one can check in. You can see the car at GMMGINC.net. Matt would like current ZL1 owners to have a shot at getting one. There will only be 69 made.

[Chevy454]

Here you go: http://gmmginc.net/html/zl1_info.shtml

[Rat_Pack]

Hey guys if you happen to be going to Floyd Garretts museum anytime soon you will be able to check this car out. They had just dropped it off about two weeks ago for display.....................RatPack............... ....

[scuncio]

Wow, I had no idea that car was being produced at all! I had a chance to drive GM's ZL1 and it was one of the most fun cars I've had the pleasure of driving. Cool.

[SuperNovaSS]

How much are they? Did anyone notice that it shows oil pressure even though its not running? I bet they pull some pretty mean quarter times.



Jason

[JChlupsa]

From the company themselves

Jeff Thanks for your interest in The ZL1.
GMMG INC plans to build 69 of these cars this summer.
All will be going thru dealers but most of them are going to the owners of the origonal 1969 ZL1's There might be a small handfull available to the public. Expected price of 54,000.00
Thanks for your interest in The ZL1.

Bille Lawler
www.GMMGINC.net


??? anyone have a 69 ZL1 for sale???? http://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif

[Charley Lillard]

If anybody wants one they should call Matt Murphy at GMMG..770-592-6261

[mc25t190]

i drove the prototype thurs. night with matt murphy and i also drove the 380hp car as well. the 400hp rated ? was awesome and it had 14k mi. on it. it ran like a scalded DOG!my order is in and its a stage II at 470hp, i can't begin to imagine the power it will have. Katie bar the door! better get your order in in a hurry. rick hendrick chevrolet in cary nc, will be the nc dealer, ask for ryan reigner and tell him kevin hand referred you. i can't wait!

[Souperhigh]

I just ordered a stage 2 also, but from Tom Henry at Tom Henry Chevrolet in Pennsylvania. He mentioned that he had been allocated 5 cars.Ask for Tom @ 1 (877) 842-4389.Kevin , I, like yourself can't wait!!!!

[JoeC]

It is a nice car but I don't see the connection to the original ZL1 Camaro. They use the LS6 engine from the ZO6 Corvette. It is a great engine so they should call it a LS6 Camaro not a ZL1. If someone wants to really build a modern ZL1 Camaro they would have to use an engine like the KG3SR7 Street Race Engine (7.0L 585hp) This is the street version of the engine Katech developed for the C5-R Corvette Factory Race cars.
This engine raced at LeMans, Daytona, and Sebring just like the original ZL1 engine, it is expensive just like the original ZL1 engine, and it is a 427 (close) that is not a normal production engine like the original ZL1 engine. The car would probably cost around 75K and would be difficult to sell many of them just like the original ZL1. In my opinion this LS6 engine Camaro is a nice car but not really deserving of the ZL1 name.

[COPO PETE]

Thank you Joe C! I feel the same way. It sounds like a cool car but last time I checked GM actually sells a brand new ZL-1 block. Why did'nt they use the ZL-1 in the ZL-1??
Peter

[Edited by COPO PETE (04-14-2002 at 06:28 AM).]

[Chevy454]

So, what's the difference between the LS-6 in the new ZL-1 Camaros and the LS-6 engines that all of the other V-8 Camaros got standard (from '01-'02?)? Just a lid and the chambered exhaust?

[JChlupsa]

Will have to agree on the use of the new GM ZL1 engine. One of the guys here has 2 of them and had his 68 Chevelle out this past cruise night and had one of the ZL1's in it. nice set-up very nice!. The 68 RS/SS with a 502 in it next to it (running) couldnt even be heard when the ZL1 was running. Awesome i have to say. must be nice to have the money to buy 2 of them. Took pics if anyone would like to see.

[shor]

Please post. I would like to put a new zl1 into my 94 impala ss

[JChlupsa]

Sent you some pics, Ill get better ones at the All Island Show on the 27th at least it will be daylight and not dark out to let me get more detailed pics

[Yenko Bart]

I agree with Joe C. A ZL-1 is a ZL-1. It is not a small block, but the most brutal big block ever. For what these cars will be selling for you can buy a new camaro, and send it to Lingenfelter for a make over. With this you get an actual aluminum 427. Putting out 500+ h.p. this is much closer to the real deal.<burnout> The package is $28,500 built, installed, and tested. Couple this with the price of a new Camaro and your not much higher in price.

I am not knocking what this company is doing, it is nice to keep the performance alive, but a ZL-1 is an aluminum BIG BLOCK car.

[mhassett]

Last year at the Camaro Nationals in Columbus I let Scott Settlemyer (Camaro Brand Manager) drive my '69 Zl-1 and in return he threw me the keys to the new ZL-1 (small block) it was all-right BUT I AGREE with Yenko Bart-Joe-and Copo Pete it is NOT a Big Block -- don't think they should have put the ZL-1 nameplate on the car. I must say at least Chevy is trying to do something good for the last year of the Camaro. Mark

[bkhpah]

I drove the ZL/1 prototype. The car was nice if you dig that body style, but the performance will not let you forget a real 427 big block. I showed the car no mercy and not once did it give me goosebumps. I have drove Vipers, Callaways C12 vettes and plenty on new breed musclecars. Nuthin' like the original. The feel of that thin plastic wheel in your hands and crazy HP is still the best for me. Old school for me...BKH

[69motion]

BKH I agree horsepower and more horsepower enough with the honda ,toyotas ect.kids just donot get it . jeff

[Yenko Bart]

Where is the new black ZL-1 that John Moss drove in at GM Carlisle. It had a big block with big block sound and big block performance. This combination brought the crowd to their feet. This was just before the crowd was disappointed with the unveiling of the 35th Anniversary cars. Later Mr. Moss was entertaing us with stories of how the car was once going 80 mph in 4th gear and he stepped on it causing it to smoke the tires. LONG LIVE THE BIG BLOCK!

That car deserved the ZL-1 nameplate.

[mhassett]

Right on Yenko Bart--I was at GM Carlisle and when Moss drove his ZL-1 to the grand stand area the whole crowd just stopped and looked and LISTENED!! If Chevy could build that car I would be FIRST on the List!!!
Mark

[DjD]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="">quote:</font><HR>So, what's the difference between the LS-6 in the new ZL-1 Camaros and the LS-6 engines that all of the other V-8 Camaros got standard (from '01-'02?)? Just a lid and the chambered exhaust?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

'98 - '02 Camaros have LS-1 engines in them... The ls-6 does come in the vette though...

[Chevy454]

Yeah, I realize the Camaros got the LS-1 (starting in '98), but they got the "updated" version of the LS-1, which was the LS-6 (new, heads, cam, & intake, and new beefier block to handle higher revs due to better flowing top end) in 2001, I believe...just curious how they arrived at 400hp/410tq...would just a lid and chambered exhaust bump it up that high?

[Edited by Chevy454 (04-14-2002 at 11:20 PM).]

[JoeC]

From what I can tell on the web sites, the 405 hp LS6 engine is only available in the 2002 Corvette ZO6. It is an extensively modified LS1 with new heads, cam, FI parts, etc. The non ZO6 Corvette has a 350hp LS1, and the SS Camaro has a 325hp LS1. The 2002 ZL1 Camaro web site claims it has a 400 hp LS6. They do not say if it is an engine transplant or if they upgrade the original LS1 engine to LS6 spec. The 2002 ZO6 is a quick car running mid 12s off the showroom floor. With a few modifications there are ZO6 owners running 11s with daily driven street cars. This Gen III motor was designed for serious hp potential. There are rumors about Chevy making a LS7 version with 420hp. The C5-R Corvette endurance race car uses a modified LS1 bored and stroked to 427 cu in and makes over 620 hp. You can buy a street version of the 427 LS1 that makes 585 hp. What I was saying is this 2002 ZL1 Camaro should be called a LS6 Camaro (it has a LS6 engine) and a modern ZL1 should use the 585 hp 427 cu in LS1. It is all too confusing with the new and old engines using the same number/letter codes. I think a 585 hp 427 LS1 2002 Camaro would do justice to the ZL1 name and would allow Chevy to showcase the GEN III motor while giving a memorable send off to the Camaro name. IMO

[Charley Lillard]

The ZO6 engine only comes in ZO6 Vettes. The current ZO6 is 405 hp. The Camaro we are talking about gets that ZO6 engine transplanted into it with the approval of Chevrolet. You still get the full Factory Warranty. If you send your car to Lingenfelter you have his warranty but you no longer have the Chevrolet Warranty. Which one appears more like a Factory built car to you ? But if you go to the Stage 2 470 hp option, the warranty goes away. As far as I know, these will be the only Camaros built with Corvette ZO6 engines put in them with Chevrolet's blessings. It is still up in the air as to if it gets to use the ZL1 emblems. The orig. cars never had ZL1 emblems on them either.

[matt murphy]

Guys,
I have enjoyed your comments and appreciate your thoughts. My first comment is this car is not a '69 Camaro playing with 1969 emission standards. Today Federal Emissions will make or brake a vehicle. In order for Chevy to consider this car it had to pass all Federal Emission Recertification tests. This car was a concept that I came up with in the summer of 2000 and it wasn't until Chevy got a call from Ford, asking them what they had to compete with their new Mustang Cobra R (385hp 2001 Mustang $56,000.00). Chevy answered, "Well we are working on a Camaro with 400hp", the other line I was told was very quiet. That was around 10:30pm on a Sunday night. At 10:40pm that night I got a call from the Camaro Assistant Brand Manager telling me to get up here to Detroit, we are going to build that Camaro you were talking about. I picked up the car and a 2002 preproduction LS6 Corvette motor from the GM Proving Grounds. We put them together and added the rest of the items we use on our other cars (see them at www.gmmginc.net), (http://www.gmmginc.net),) like our Chambered Exhaust among 50 other things and came up with a 400HP package. Remember, at Chevy the Corvette is King and if you want to kill a project Camaro, just give it more HP, but if you want to keep it alive, rate it 5hp less. The base 2001 Camaro SS on the chassis dyno made 298hp at the rear wheels, that is roughly 345hp at the flywheel (although factory rated 325hp). With the 2002 LS6 motor we got from GM and our 50 or so parts, it brought the hp at the rear wheels to 372hp and 360tq, that is 431hp at the flywheel and 417tq. Remember, this is all with a Federal Emission Legal Recertified Motor and Package. Not a Lingenfelter or vintage big block that would both fail the test miserably. Also, you are speaking about a modified big block and ZL1 motor. Remember what they did stock. GM got our Pilot (internal GM name for a production type prototype) Garnet Red ZL1 last April and took it to the GM Proving Grounds and ran a weeks worth of tests and called me and told me that they would print 0-60 in 4.06 sec. and 1/4 mile in 12.5 @ 114mph. That was with stock tires, exh manifolds and cats, etc. Lastly, I am a huge Camaro enthusiast and collector and would do nothing to deface the ZL1 legend; but, those numbers and 430hp are very reminiscent of only one Factory Camaro in the past 35 years and that is how
we came up with the name for this project Camaro. To be fair, please do not compare this car to a modified big block or we will have to modify ours and you do not want to go there, just kidding or maybe not. Take it from here Charlie and Kevin. I will be back later

Thanks for your efforts Matt. If you would have not been involved, we would only have a 35th anniversary camaro to choose from. Can you explain the stage 2 package. Does it include headers or line-lock? What is the stage 2 actual dyno test? When will delivery of cars start. Thanks Matt. Dave Belk

[COPO PETE]

Thanks for stopping by Matt! I applaud your intentions and I think what your doing is great. I'm glad someone is going out of the way to try and keep the Camaro legend alive, that's what were all doing here! Some may not agree but I think the name LS-6 Camaro is more fitting, especially since one was never built, and many thought it should have in 1970. Reguardless of the name, the car will stand on it's own if it's a good as you say it is, and it does sound great. Interested in a 69 ZL-1 vs 2002 LS-6/ZL-1 shootout for advertising???? http://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/wink.gif
Peter
PS. Now when you bring out the 69 look alike in a few years like Ford did with the T-bird, then you can drop in that aluminum ZL-1 block and have a party!!!! ;) And actually call it ZL-1 Camaro!!!!!

[Edited by COPO PETE (04-16-2002 at 09:18 AM).]

[JoeC]

Welcome to the site Matt. It is good that you are building the LS6 Camaro. I don't mean to sound too negative, but you should have called it a LS6 Camaro. A modern ZL1 Camaro should have at least 500hp. This is not unreasonable with today's technology. The Viper has 450hp, Ferrari has 508hp, the new Ford GT40 has 500hp. Chevy has the engine to compete - It is the LS1 427 C5-R motor. It should be able to be built with 500hp and be fully emission legal. Katech already sells a 585 hp LS1 street motor. Now call Chevy and demand a 500hp 427 LS1 for your ZL1 Camaro. While you have them on the phone tell them they need a ZL1 Corvette to. All they have to do is write a check to a vendor like Katech and they can get the motors built. It just takes somebody at Chevy with big enough round things to do it. The last F-Body deserves a good send off.

[Chevy454]

First off, GREAT TO HAVE YOU ABOARD, MATT! I'm a little split on who has my dream job: you or Jon Moss http://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/burnout.gif! I had to go over to LS-1.com (http://www.ls1.com) to find answers to some questions I inquired about earlier...I thought the '01-2 LS-1's shared more than just the block with the LS-6 (I was thinking head and intake for some reason), but they got me headed in the right direction. [For those interested, the LS-6, the powerplant of choice in the ZO6, features different heads, cam, intake, & injectors. Chime in here, Matt, if this is wrong!] Oh, a quick question: I think I read somewhere that since the F-bodies are leaving for a while, that SLP is going to move over into the Corvettes, and even into sport uteshttp://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/shocked.gif and possibly some other models. Is GMMG gonna try doing anything on any other platforms?

Pete:

I hate to even post this, but I was thinking the EXACT same thing, with one exception: the part where you mention about the '69 look alike car. T-bird? I probably would have went with GT-40, which is going to look AWESOME, but I'm not all that impressed with the T-bird. But, I did agree with the name thing...it's got an LS-6 in it, and the Camaro has deserved the LS-6 since '70, so why not call it an LS-6? Then, convince GM to build that monster ZL-1 that Moss built (with the aluminum Donnavan!), and there's your ZL-1.

Oh, let me know when/where this '69 vs. '02 ZL-1 shootout is gonna take place! Let's see...when I last left Pete (at the Pure Stock Drags in Michigan) his ZL-1 had just finished up his "Certified Stock" inspection and was running 12.30s on Polyglass tires...the new ZL-1 is running 12.50s...ought to be close!!!!

[Edited by Chevy454 (04-16-2002 at 10:31 AM).]

[DjD]

Matt, Thank you for the insite. Some are missing the most important point you made... Do I understand correctly? Snuff the Vette and it's over, GM shuts down your project...

...Dennis
Team Camaro (http://www.camaros.net)

[matt murphy]

Thanks again for your kind responses. One thing about recertifying emissions federally is that you have to send a base car to one of two Federal Emission labs in the country and baseline the car as stock with 3000 miles on it, then make the engine mods and other stuff we do to the car and then send it back and it must stay within a certain percent of the baseline. A good example is in '97 SLP built 100 LT4 Corvette motors in a 30th anniversary Camaro. They were $45,000.00 MSRP cars in '97 and had 330HP. The stock LT4 Corvette motor failed the test because it was not within the allotted percent of difference. They had to change the cam, computer and injectors to make it pass. This LS6 motor is cleaner and much to our surprise it passed using the stock 2002 motor with no changes. Just because some tuner says that a motor is a street motor and or emission legal motor, that is no were near emission certified legal and in this case would never fly from the dealer level today.
GM Performance Parts is building 69 special LS6 Camaro Motors for these cars, since the Corvette version has a different oil pan and had to be changed out. Jon Moss at Chevy agreed to personally sign the dash (like Dale Earnhardt did on the Intimidator SS, see our web page and click on the Intimidator SS to see location of Dale's signature www.gmmginc.net). (http://www.gmmginc.net).) In place of the RPM x1000, which we deleted, he signs in that spot with a sharpie marker. His black ZL1 pro-street Camaro is where we got the stripe scheme for this car. Please, stop dreaming about this car, if you have $350,000.00 Jon will tell you he could make you one just like it, but this car is a one off pro-street, not factory, car. Jon is a great guy and ironically one of the engineers that created the chambered exhaust in '67 & '68.
I will post again if you don't mind this 4th gen stuff. Our intentions were not to create a car that would be compared to the original ZL1 or the current Z06 Corvette. That would be like conparing Dale Earnhardt JR to his dad. A lot of similarities but ready to create his own legend. And as far as "LS6 Camaro" for the name, well that was the original project name, "LS6 Project Camaro;" but, all along, I wanted to use ZL1 because if you get a chance to see or drive one of the production versions, you will be amazed as to how cool this car is. Terry Cole at Super Chevy Magazine said it best when he said, "This car is the perfect mix of raw performance and hot rodding ingenuity." He also said, "I never Misjudged anything as much as I did here by jumping to the wrong conclusion about this car. To sum it up: this potential-production Supercar is a throw-back to the big-block-powered machines of the late 60's -- only better in every way!" I say bring on the 2001 Mustang Cobra R and have Ford bring their new 390hp supercharged 2003 Cobra. I promise you, they will go crying back to their SVT stable like Mustangs have always done. We are planning on a shootout with Bill Porterfields '69 #1 ZL1 and his new 2002 ZL1, stay tuned, a national magazine has the approval to cover it. By the way, the tires on this new ZL1 car have raised black letters that say "Goodyear Eagle F-1 SUPERCAR" on them. A fitting name for this car.

[Mr70]

Any Chance of a 2002 ZL-1 Camaro attending the Collinsville Il. Super car reunion Show this summer?
Either by owner or manufacturer?

[Charley Lillard]

Here is a link to Matt's page with the list of Dealers that are selling the cars. http://www.gmmginc.net/html/zl1distrolist.html

[mc25t190]

no matter what you call it, it is GM approved and will make production, and a production run of the last 69 cars built. no other aftermarket company can claim this. i think the stage two 470 horsepower engine will surprise any enthusiast. i own 4 , 427 big block cars, the differnce is the smooth power with no shaking and feel of the true musclecar era which i love in the old cars. it is modern day with a new twist. a little more comfortable to drive with modern day amenities. a driver you might say. i know one thing i don't like to tak my 69 nova, chevelle, or camaro around the block too often. call the car what you want. baskin and robbins makes 32 flavors of ice cream for a reason. i like the old for heritage and the true musclcar feel and power, the new for comfort and power, add handling. good luck matt, the old Zl1 and 427 won't ever be replaced and i don't think matt is trying to do that. i think the 4th gen cars have alot more to offer than the second and third, nothing will EVER replace the first gen. happy motoring!

[68TopStock]

matt murphy,

I just like the idea of Chevrolet bringing the Camaro back to the top of the list of being one of the most desirable cars on the planet. Hope the hiatus is short.

I kind of like the idea that the first production race camaro was a small block, and now the same for the last.

Just curious, who gets the #1 2002 ZL1?

[JChlupsa]

To bad they cant match the number of the 2002 cars with the like number of the 69's

[Charley Lillard]

TopStock...Porterfield is getting the # 1 car to match his # 1 car. It is even going to be painted Candy Red like his # 1 car. I believe Holub is getting the # 2 car. I'm getting the # 3 car,Daytona Yellow and through Berger of coarse.

[mc25t190]

GUYS, LETS NOT FORGET THAT THIS CAR HASN'T BEEN NAMED ANYTHING YET, AND MAY NOT BE NAMED ANYTHING BUT A CAMARO. IT DOESN,T APPEAR THAT GM IS INTERESTED IN LETTING IT BE CALLED A ZL1 OR LS6 FOR THAT MATTER, THEY MAY JUST CALL IT BAD TO THE BONE!BBBBBADDDDDDDDD!

[GRB]

If you are a muscle car lover and (in particular) a Camaro lover Matt's car will make your mouth water. No matter what the car is called it won't be just another tuner car. I think Matt will see to that.

Being an old timer and having owned and driven a few muscle cars I have been looking for that one car that brings back big block memories with all the modern technologies. This is the car I've been looking for.

Anybody can send a car to LPE, but only 69 of these cars will be built. And when you look at the whole package the price isn't out of line. And who's to say a few of these cars won't end up with LPE 427s in 'em? I know of one that might.

[68TopStock]

Charley,

I had heard a rumor the other day from LaHarpe, that is a super confirmation. Got to love the fact you and Bill get to match your big Z's. Are you pinching yourself yet? http://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif

[Edited by 68TopStock (04-19-2002 at 09:48 PM).]

I would think that if they are making 69 units they would be called ZL-1 cars. I surely do not want my car unmarked. I will be selling ZL-1 emblems if this happens!

[Charley Lillard]

Not Pinching. Trying to find the Money for all this stuff I shouldn't be buying. Gotta have it though.

[mc25t190]

dave, i knew you would have to have one of these!

[GRB]

OK, here's my opinion. I love the car. No car is for everybody but I knew after less than a mile in this car it was the car for me. How can you beat a modern muscle car with the all the power of the old muscle cars we remember (maybe more) and none of the gliches.

I'll say it again. Unabashedly, I love the car more than my 02 Z06. There, I said it. Sue me.

[YenkoYS100]

Keyriced, at $54,000 they better smoke an '03 Cobra. If they don't, it'll be mighty embarassing.

Oh, Matt........Ford never made an '01 CobraR. Keep believing that 390 rated hp. on the '03 Cobra also. http://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/laugh.gif

If I had to guess......most of these $54,000 Camaros will be garage queens, and will never come up against the '03 Cobra anyways.

Time will tell. http://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/laugh.gif
--------
Rick

[Mutt]

So... Will the new.."02~ZL1" be excepted here on this site?? Can the "02~ZL1" call this site "Home"? Or will it just be for the big block ZL1, Yenko, ect... Can the car be qualified as a Supercar and join in on the reunions?? Should this be a new thread somewhere else other than cars 4 sale??

opinions... http://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/crazy.gif

RB

[Souperhigh]

The stage II's will end up in the mid 60's and yes I will run the one I have ordered.It should be here between August and October.

[GRB]

I believe Matt was referring to the 2000 Cobra R. It will be fun to line them up but I don't think the Cobra will see anything but tail lights.

It sounds like an awful lot of these cars will be ordered with the stage II pkg. Also, many are being ordered in Hugger Orange.

[Chevy454]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>
Jon is a great guy and ironically one of the engineers that created the chambered exhaust in '67 &amp; '68.


<hr></blockquote>

Semi "off topic" comment here, but I'm not sure I would brag about the design of the chambered exhaust system! j/k! Check out the pictures I posted in THIS THREAD (http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=racing&amp;Number=17198&amp;page=0 &amp;view=&amp;sb=&amp;o=&amp;fpart=2&amp;vc=1&amp;PHPSESSID=).

[Chevy454]

Some pictures of Bill porterfield's '02 Zl-1 car, sent by Kim Howie:

http://www.yenko.net/attachments/17784-BP02-1.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/attachments/17785-BP02-2.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/attachments/17787-BP02-3.jpg