1970 L-78 Engine Code & Car Vin # Question

[CamarosRus]

Talking to seller who has T0226CKO engine for sale (1970 L-78) with 10W274985 also stamped on Deck of Block. The "W" would be Willows Spring where Nova's were built but the VIN # starting with "2" belongs to Monte Carlo, according to the Alan Colvin book. Would anybody give me there opinion. Is the a website for Nova buffs. Also I have seen a Sept 69 CKO L-78 with VIN # down by oil filter on Bell Housing Flange.....so was surprised when this seller said VIN # was on deck??? Engine located in St Jo Missiouri, anybody avail to inspect? Thanks, chuck sharin [email protected]

[COPO]

As far as the location of the VIN, around Dec. of '68 the stamping location was switched to down near the oil filter and the Norwood plant was pretty consistent. I know the Van Nuys plant switched back to the alternator pad location. Not sure about Willow. The stamping location was not very consistent for all of the plants at that time. Can't help you w/the rest.

[JoeC]

The "2" does not look like it belongs there. Ask the guy to recheck the number. CKO is for a L78 for Camaro, Nova, and Chevelle but I don't believe the L78 was available in the Monte Carlo. Here is a Nove site
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/6432/

[Rowdy Rat]

The "W" is actually GM's Willow Run plant which is located in Michigan. While many 1969 Norwood Camaros used the area near the oil filter to stamp the VIN derivative, I can tell you (with reasonable certainty) that Willow Run used the pad in front of the right cylinder head exclusively. I have not seen or heard of anything different on a Nova.

I know that the Willow Run plant built other cars besides Novas (Corvairs come to mind, but that would have ended in 1969), but I wouldn't rule out an error in the Colvin book either. I'm with Joe - I never heard of an L-78 Monte Carlo, but I guess stranger things have been built.

Regards,

Stan Falenski

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I am not sure on the '2' in question. The VIN starts with the '1' above, the '0' being the year, the first '2' after that dontes the model??
M

[CamarosRus]

El Camino, To further my education did all 1970 Willow Run, MI Nova VIN's start with the number 2 ?? Alan Colvins book reads to me like Chevelles and Nova VIN's started with the # 1 and Camaros started with the # 5 in 1970. Somebody else said Willow Run stamped VIN's on the deck so I'm inclined to go with the Nova theory.
I also have in my garage a Sept(assy date) CKO engine with VIN stamped on BELLHOUSING FLANGE 10 1xxxxx.....anyway where a letter should have been struck for the car factory, it didnt strike the metal hard enough to read. Might this CKO engine been from a Chevelle????

[JoeC]

ElCamino - Thanks for your input. I believe you are correct that it is a Nova L78. I disagree that the digit 2 is "just" a sequence and does not indicate any model information. The first digit of the sequence number can be different for different models. For example the 1970 Nova VIN sequence begins 100001 the 1970 Camaro begins 500001 and 1970 Monte Carlo built in Arlington begins 200001. That made the "2" digit look odd. The vin W274985 is the 174985 Nova built but the engine date code is February. I thought that also looked odd because of such a high VIN number until I looked up the total production units of 1970 Nova's. Willow Run built over 307000 Novas. That's a lot of Novas. I guess this car being the 174985 unit built could have had a February engine date since it would have been assembled during a little over half the production year.

[JoeC]

CamarosRus - According to my books the 70 Nova vin sequence started with W100001 and went all the way up to W4xxxxx. Your other CKO block with the 1xxxxx sequence no. could be a Chevelle, Nova, Chev/Pass, or Monte Carlo (built in plant other then Arlington). You may be able to rule out the Nova if it is true that Willow Run only used the block deck vin number pad.

[elcamino]

I stand by answer!! It is a Nova Engine, no doubt what so ever for me!!

As for the other engine being Chevelle I can't say just by where the VIN code is stamped allthough Camaro plants were doing this before others but it appeared to be to speed operations because engine accessories were having to be removed to stamp the code on some models. As you can see from the image there were quite a few assembly plants putting cars together. They did not always do things in harmony. The reason for stamping the VIn code on the rough surface was to prevent theft (called the cop VIN). For someone to alter the VIn they would have to disturb the rough surface and would be a dead give away of tampering.

274985 is just a sequence number, i.e. the last 6 digits from the Nova's VIN. It has no reference to the car line what so ever, the books are not always right, they very often changed the methods because of sellin more cars than predicted. Just because that 2 does not agree you cannot throw out the other code meanings. The VIN code on the engine is in a diffferent form that on the VIN tag and title.

Here's what my book says on the Engine numbers.

I scanned in some info about this, take a look and print it out (it will gone soon). I had to cram the info onto one sheet to make is easy for me.

www.synthetic-oil.com/images/70.jpg (http://www.synthetic-oil.com/images/70.jpg)


[Edited by elcamino (01-26-2001 at 08:33 AM).]

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

JoeC;
I have also read Colvin's book regarding decoding the engine stamping, and also think that the first digit of the last six should start with a '1' to denote the Nova line.

I agree with both you and Elcamino, the Willow Run plant only built Novas in '69/'70 to my knowledge, so the engine is out of a Nova. The last six digits probably started off with a 100001. By the 4th week of May when the '70 COPO Novas started production, the last six digits are in the '348900' range, and the COPO run ends with the last six digits in the '370900'. The 175 Yenko Novas and the 2 Canadian COPO Novas are sprinkled throughout this range of approximately 22,000 VIN's.

As for the VIN stamping location, I have never seen a Nova VIN stamping anywhere else but the cylinder pad. All original engined Yenko Novas have the VIN stamped on the pad. I cannot speak for Camaros, Chevelles ect, but the Novas seem very consistent with this location.

Marlin

[Steven J]

According to information from another reliable source, it's a 1970 Nova with a full VIN of 114270W274985.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

JoeC;
You are 100% correct, the sequence numbers started at 100001 and then continued into the 2xxxxx series. This is what confused me about Colvin's book. I read it as all Novas had their sequence number starting with 1, but that is not the case after the first 100k are built.

The COPO Novas were all built within 3 weeks, 05D, 06A and 06B. This is an easy way to spot clones!
Marlin

[CamarosRus]

To all who responded to my initial question,
THANK YOU! This site and the general membership continues to impress and entertain me daily. The seller of the CKO engine was giving me a "story" about being from a Chevelle and I was certain that was wrong but the VIN # didnt make sense to me. As good as Colvin's book is his VIN # info for Nova's mislead me......and now I know "The Rest Of The Story". Regards to you all, Chuck Sharin

[JoeC]

Marlin, the way I understand it, the last six digits are the sequence numbers, which increased one digit for each car built. For some reason they do not start the count from one. They start the count from a six-digit number. For the 1970 Nova the sequence begins W100001 and gets bumped up for each unit built. When the count gets up to 100000 units the Nova number becomes W200000. Therefore only an early Nova (less then 100, 000 units built) will have W1xxxxx. The Nova production total shows 307280 units. The VIN for the last Nova built at Willow Run should be W407280. Not all models started with 100001. The 1970 Camaro begins 500001 and 1970 Monte Carlo built in Arlington begins 200001. From your numbers it appears all COPO NovaÃs were built in a short time frame.

[elcamino]

This is a L78 from a 1970 Nova!

T0226CKO
T=Tonawanda Engine Plant
02=Feb
26=Day
CKO=396/375HP with manual transmission. This engine suffix was installed in Chevelle's, Camaro's, and Nova's. So to ID the car you have to use the VIN and the Plant location to determine. During this time the only models that were being assembled at the Willow Run assembly were Nova's, so it was a Nova without a doubt.

10W274985 is the VIN code from the Nova
1=Chevrolet Division
0=Model Year
W=Willon Run Assembly
274985 are the last 6 sequence numbers from the VIN of the Nova. Your reasoning on the digit 2 is incorrect. Its just a sequence number used by the plant and does not indicate any model information.

This information is from the Chevrolet Parts Catalog from the era.









[Edited by elcamino (02-08-2001 at 06:07 PM).]