yenko camaro ??

[Peter D]

1.) Re-Bodied; Is this a kinder way of saying "I put a offical yenko data plate on this camaro I found." Or is this a common practice? Any and all input will be greatly appreciated. 2.)This question is for marlin....In your one last blast you stated you re-did your advance curve in your distributor and I understood that, but the part about puting it away for the winter??? Please explain to this so cal boy (old boy) what "winter" is. Do you have pictures? Can you post them? Thank everyone in advance and peace be with you. Peter

[Edited by Peter D (12-23-2001 at 10:35 AM).]

[COPO]

Peter, welcome to the board. I'll take a stab at your first question. I believe it's been discussed in the past, but I'll give you my personal opinion which may differ from others. To me, I rebody involves removing the vin tag and trim tag from a rare car (say a yenko) and re-attaching them to a new body. In this case the "hidden VINs" do not match the vin tag. To me, it's no longer a Yenko.

Now, if the same process involves saving the firewall/cowl area of the Yenko and using the "good body" for the remainder of the car, I'm OK with that approach. To me, the "soul" of the car is the firewall/cowl area w/the hidden VINs.

I believe the collector car market in pretty much in line with this thinking as I know a certain ZL-1 originally sold in the N.W. that is exactly as you describe. A set of tags on another body. When this car changes hands from time to time, it seems to sell at a 50% or so discount from a "real" ZL-1. Nonetheless it still holds significant value over a run of the mill '69 Camaro.

Here's a link to the ZL-1's http://www.barrettjackson.com/auctionresults/common/cardetail.asp?id=158745 http://www.barrettjackson.com/auctionresults/common/cardetail.asp?id=168273 $64,000 versus $134,000.



[Edited by COPO (12-24-2001 at 02:52 PM).]

[Mr Yenko]

I would cut the WHOLE floor pan out from front to back from the donor car. That is my personal opinion and .02 cents.BP

[tom406]

Very eloquent reply to the rebody issue, and I would agree. I would even argue that implanting the firewall and cowl with all the hidden numbers into a gennie, uncut body could be "more correct" than putting quarters, rockers, floors, and wheelwells into a rusty/tubbed/crashed "real" car, particularly if the rebody uses a donor from the same plant and from the same approximate date. Like anything, it really depends on the quality of the restoration, or in the case of a rebody, the thoroughness of the job. If someone buys a title and a couple of tags and tries to "build" a car out of thin air, odds are there are going to be many details overlooked and corners cut (cars built for resale still sporting 10 bolt rearends, or no hangers for dual exhaust, small block fuel lines, etc). However, if someone who knows the cars and cares starts with an essentially complete, but horribly rusted supercar, and transfers EVERYTHING to the bare virgin hulk of a 40,000 mile So California based six cylinder car, I'm cool with it. To me, the "soul" kind of dissipates when an original car is completely disassembled and redone, so the body becomes just another component for the restoration effort.

Where do you stand on the issue? Here's a scenario: You just found a '69 Yenko Chevelle in a guy's back yard. Been there since the gas crisis in '73. He shot oil into the cylinders and covered the engine bay with gear oil. The wife wanted the garage so it went outside, but he "protected" it with a nice blue tarp. Oh, and he forgot to rinse the bottom after he launched his boat into salt water in late '72. So everythings there, down to the date coded smog. But there are no floors to speak of from the firewall back. Now coincidentally, at home you have a 307/3 speed '69 Chevelle you picked up from a retiree the year before. It's as honest as Mother Teresa, was built just 3 weeks prior to the Yenko at the same plant,and has the same interior to boot! So...what do you do? What do you do......

[Belair62]

Just my opinion but if the horribly rusted car is too far gone....it goes to the great boneyard in the sky ! To me,all you would be doing is making a car that was never produced if you just use tags. They were only produced once at the factory.

[CamarosRus]

COPO, Sorry I missed the fact that these were two different cars.......curious if the 98 $64k sale was to "Tony" at a certain musclecar dealership and what in fact has happened to the Allan Green car......anyway...later, Chuck

[sixtiesmuscle]

Tom, if I read your post correctly, that theory is just plain RUBBISH!!. To think that any kind of rebody involving the cowl, firewall & shell is "more correct" than an extensive restoration of a real car misses the mark on where the "soul" lies. What do you think 90% of the real cars are that are out there now? That's just my $.02, Merry Christmas.

[Edited by sixtiesmuscle (12-25-2001 at 03:06 PM).]

[tom406]

Thanks for the discussion, I think the debate is healthy for all of us, if for no other reason than to define what's important to us and our hobby.

For the record, super honest unrestored cars are my favorite, and I am among those who would pay more for a killer unrestored car than a fully restored one. I'm probably playing devil's advocate on this issue, since in all honesty, I probably feel only 1 guy in 50 could actually carry out what I consider to be a successful "rebody". It would require complete knowledge and exceptional restoration skill, and most of us usually just have one or the other. And the scenario would have to be like the one I told, where you had a pretty complete car to redo, not just bits and pieces. I'm NOT a supporter of building a car from tags and a title, there is absolutely no "soul" left there to debate, as its only the smallest step from finding dead VINs and building replicas. It's just if I found a neat, significant car that was just a bit too rusted or twisted, but I thought it should be brought back via restoration, I'd be comfortable (in theory anyway) using a date coded donor rather than trying to patch and realign everything. Not many cars are neat or valuable enough to justify the time and expense, though.

Finally, I don't possess the skill or ambition to attempt even a half-assed rebody (another reason to stay with gennie originals), so please don't think I'm one of the producers of these controversial cars.....

Happy New Year all.......

[Stefano]

tom406,
The rebodying of a 1969 Camaro would be an easy task to say the least. Changing The vin
(illegal BTW) and trim tag as well as the secondary Vins could be accomplished in just about any home garage.
This is one reason that original and unrestored cars are extemely desireable ,in todays market place. A car may be restored many times over, but it is original only once.
Any one can be taken by fraud. This is why it is a crime in our society.
When is the last time you saw a Super Car or high end Muscle Car advertised as number matching, date coded ,restamp ?

[CamarosRus]

COPO, Did I understand those two Barrett Jackson links to show that a certain ZL-1 originally sold at Allen Green Chevrolet sold in 98' for $64k and in 01' for $134k....even though the only Piece on that car that ever came with or on a ZL-1 was the Vin Tag....not just a rebodyment but a total fabrication......interesting news to me.....Chuck

[COPO]

Chuck, the point of the 2 links is to show the difference in what the collector car market perceives is the value between a re-body ZL-1 and a "real" one. The car w/the Allen Green tags was $64K. The links are 2 different cars. See the VIN's.

[JoeC]

In reference to the example given, it is a difficult job to restore a rust bucket 69 Chevelle to a #1 condition show car. The correct paint lines, number stampings, inspections markings, paper tags, chalk marks, etc., may be all gone. Same may be true for a car with an older amateur restoration. The clean donor car will have to be near the same build date and also same assembly plant as the restoration project. Also there are many small details different between a 69 Malibu and 69 SS and a COPO/Yenko Chevelle was not a Malibu and was not an SS. The 69 Corvette only had one assembly plant, 69 Camaro 2 plants but Chevelles were built in 5 assembly plants. Each plant built, stamped, and marked the car differently and made vendor changes during the year to keep up with the high volume. (total 69 Chevelle production was over 500,000 units) More info is available to restore Corvettes and Camaros but the info to restore 69 Chevelles is confused because of so many different assemble plants. I have not seen many true #1 condition correctly restored 69 Chevelles and have seen many original cars that lost their proper markings because of amateur restoration jobs. You would need a lot of experience restoring Baltimore 69 Chevelles to restore a rust bucket Yenko Chevelle to a true #1 condition show car. Just my opinions.