yenko chevelle wheels

[mc25t190]

are 15 x 6, or 15 x 7 wheels standard equipment on yenko chevelles?

[bkhpah]

15X7 YH Rally wheels are standard...BKH

[fpcopo]

What were the "mag wheels" that came if ordered on the Yenko Camaros? I've heard Atlas but were American torq thrust D's used?
If so, were they 15X6 or 7? Thanks

[bkhpah]

If everyone is asking about the set of 15X6 Americans on ebay right now. The answer is no. Americans were not used. The spoke design is incorrect...BKH

[Belair62]

The Americans on E-Bay right now are "D" spokes. The Atlas wheel used by Yenko was a knock-off of the American straight spoke Torq Thrust.Americans were probably more expensive too.The American Racing Torq-Thrust was introduced in the early 60's.The spoke design of the Atlas wheel is VERY similar to this wheel."D" spokes are not at all similar.

[bkhpah]

American called the more straight spoke wheel Torque-Thrust-R. The D I am told was a designation for Disc Brake...BKH

[Rat_Pack]

The Torque Thrust was the orignal name for American's 5 spoke wheel. In late 1968 they introduced a new design called the T70 (see the January feature car for a good picture). They began having problems with them cracking due to the spoke design being a little thinner and the mounting flange being a smaller diameter. They then changed the wheel again sometime in 1970-71 and phased in what is known as the T70R. This was the same design as the T70 but they added a lip to the outside of each spoke to make the wheel more rigid and this design was last offered in 74 or 75. The lip was already being used on the new for 1969 200S wheel.

When the T70 came out American quit making both the Torque Thrust and Torque Thrust D, which as Brian stated was for disc brake cars and was different than the current version as the entire spoke was curved including the backside. The current Torque Thrust-D version only has the front of the spoke curved. The T70 was supposed to fit cars with disc brakes but not all widths would clear the calipers on 67-68 GM cars including all Corvettes from 65 and up and some Mopars. Only the 8-1/2" wide wheels would fit the GM cars & Vettes with disc brakes. To use 7" wide or narrower width wheels on those cars a 3/8" spacer was required to allow the wheel to fit. (I have spacers on my front wheels on my 68 Camaro to get them to clear.)

The new T70 & T70R also had a new design center cap. They used the same center cap as the 200S where it used one screw with a retainer cup from the backside of the wheel to hold the cap on. Then American made another change in the early 70's with the center cap design. They went to a "pop in" design where the cap could be installed with the wheel on the car. These are still offered as replacements today.

Sorry for the long post but this may give some insight to the American wheel which was first made I believe in 1961 and it was made from magnesium. A true mag wheel......................RatPack................ ..

[Belair62]

You are exactly right on the "D" designation Brian.They were made to fit early 4 piston calipers.There were actually 3 different Torq-Thrusts available in 1969-70.Torq-Thrusts,Torq-Thrust"D",and Torq-Thrust R. The ones that Atlas looks like are the straight Torq Thrust wheels. The "R" wheel is very different in appearance from either of the other 2. They are a more modern thinner casting and have a different style cap and also have a flat "flange" cast onto the spokes.Very nice looking wheel.The straight Torq-Thrusts date from at least 1964 in magnesium.

[Edited by Belair62 (01-26-2002 at 09:58 PM).]

[bkhpah]

Great American info...BKH

[Rat_Pack]

Bob, to add to your R description that is the T70R. On the backs of some of those wheels they read Torque Thrust R (pronounced Torque Thruster). They tried that name and it really never caught on but there are a few of us that remember them that way. Right Brian? Mike has a set of those wheels on his 71 Motion Camaro.....................RatPack.............

[Stefano]

The early Americans were definately available in Magneseum. My first car a 1965 Plymouth Satellite had a set.
American Racing was cast inside of the wheels.

Has anyone checked out the E T wheels, www.etwheels.com (http://www.etwheels.com) ,I think. Look at the classic 5.

[Edited by Stefano (01-27-2002 at 07:13 PM).]

[68l30]

I just finished restoring a set of old straight spoke Torq Thrusts,one pair from 1965 and another pair from circa 69.The two sets were cast with different molds as there were slight differences in machine dimensions and lug hole sizes.They looked the same to the eye but upon machining them I found the difference.If you can, machine the rear side to clear the caliper before polishing.It has been very hard to find a nice set to restore and get that 1960's day two look.I hate the new D spoke.......


Steve

[Belair62]

The ET's are nice....Bet they are real close to the old ones they used to cast which is darn close to Torq Thrusts....finally a nice looking wheel.

[RVOR]

I am not a big fan of the rally wheel. From a concourse restorastion perspective - listening to all the great comments, the only way to go is a rally wheel or find a set of
the origianl Atlas wheels. It does not sound like anything new is currently being accepted. What do judges have to say at the judged shows?

[JoeC]

I have a 1967 Honest Charlie's catalog and in there are American's, ET's, Mickey Thompson's, and Ansen wheels that all look very similar to the Atlas. The Atlas wheels were not marked, as far as I know, so it is difficult to tell what you are looking at especially in a swap meet environment.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Ron;
I can only speak for the Novas, but the judges at Vette-Fest and the Nova Nationals don't really differentiate between the current ARE-Torq Thrusts vs. the Atlas wheels. I don't think the judges could really distinguish the difference, and they can't spend a lot of time on any one car.

There really isn't a 'diamond level' judging criteria for the Novas, so these types of things will not cause a point deduction at a show. Interestingly, the judges will usually allow headers on a Yenko, but they will deduct for 'stepped' and/or coated versions. I have seen one guy get a deduction for Hooker super-Comps, the judge knew they should have been Doug Thorley's. Other Yenko Nova owners get AACA cert. with AM 8tracks, rear seat speakers and flow-master pipes!?!?!?
M

[Rat_Pack]

Steve, all American Torque Thrusts, T70, T70R, and 200S wheels used there own special lug nut. The diameter of the hole in the wheel was 5/8" dia. instead of the 11/16" dia. which most wheel manufacturers used and still use today. The only other company that I can remember using this diameter hole was M/T. Most people enlarge the holes to accomodate currently available lug nuts as you can no longer buy the correct ones for the original wheels. Also the depth of the shank (not counting the thickness of the washer)was 9/16" which is not made in todays market. To use current lug nuts on original American Torque Thrusts you must have them shortened by a 1/4" at a machine shop..............RatPack...................

[68l30]

Ratpack,you are correct.I used a .6875 end mill to machine the lug holes.I custom made some 304 stainless washers to get the correct depth on the lug nut.The counter bore on the lug hole varies from wheel to wheel,quality control was not what you would expect today.If I didn't get in on the bottom floor of this project cost wise I would have thought twice!

Steve

[RVOR]

Had a chance to look at the ET "0lassic Five"
cast wheel today. It may be an excellent substitute for the original Atlas with the exception of being a 2 piece wheel. I called
Team III Wheels who are the manufacturer and asked for if they had other options. He claimed that was the only straight spoke currently on the market that he knew of. They just so happened to have a 1 piece design in work, due to complete in March. He has picked up a number of vintage wheels from swap meets and is reproducing the ones he thinks enthusiast want. He also stated he has had car clubs in the past give him a wheel that had not been manufactured for years and reproduce it for them. The cost is an initial $3000.00 then approx. $300.00 per wheel.

[Jeff H]

I have a set of Ansen 5 spoke wheels that look similar to the torque thrusts, but they are 15x6 and they clear disc brakes. They were purchased in 68 and put on a 67 Corvette and are in very good condition. Check this site for a bunch of vintage mags http://www.roadsters.com/wheels/#Ansen it's gives some good information.

[Rat_Pack]

Jeff H, thanks for the note on that wheel site. Good information for the novice. There are some statements that are incorrect about American and Fenton wheels on that site.

Not all American Torque Thrusts have the offset or size cast into the back of them but they all do say American Racing Equipment. I have not found any of the T70 wheels to say anything more than American Racing Equipment cast into the backs of them. Some of the T70 15 X 7 wheels do have Patent Pend cast into them after the ARE casting. Also I have never seen an original set of aluminum Torque Thrusts with the centers painted (except current TT-D's) as the article states in the "restoration" area. The finish was "as cast" and they even stated that in their ads. The May 68 issue of HRM the ad states "Prime Metal.....we are the largest producers of unpainted wheels in the world". The machined areas were exactly that, machined, but almost to a polished look. They did not have the deep machined grooves like the current wheels have where you can catch an edge with your fingernail. They were a lot smoother and were almost undetectible.

Some Fenton mags that look like the Torque Thrusts are exactly that. They used a Torque Thrust wheel to make their casting and the words Fenton Racing Equipment is cast into the back of the wheel. What is funny is that you can see where they removed the word American and cast their logo in there. This is most commonly found on their 15 x 9 (not 8-1/2" wide that is another difference) wheel. Where they changed the wheel was on the outer machined/polished lip. Besides adding a 1/2" to the width of the wheel, the "step up" where the machined surface meets the spokes is at a sharper angle than the American. Thus giving a deeper look to the wheel.

Sorry for the long post but I just wanted to relay some more information about the many differences of these wheels over the years...................RatPack............

[68l30]

Rat_Pak,How did ARE finish the rear side of the Torq Thrust? I have mine polished from the cast area where they are marked ARE out.Do you guy's clear coat your spokes and center non polished areas?I thought I would for ease of cleaning...

Steve

[Rat_Pack]

The machined area on the backs of the wheels are finished like the current Torque Thrust D's with a pronounced machine finish. If you clear the centers make sure you use something that does not turn yellow from heat. I think Eastwood offers something that will work. If you use anything else the clear will yellow after a few trips to the local cruise night maybe even quicker if you have disc brakes on the front. Also sometimes clear coating rough cast aluminum will darken the finish a little, not always though.

I leave my wheels unfinished just like they came originally. If you have them on a daily driver I can get you a mix formula that is very close to the original gold/gray tone of the aluminum that they used to cast those wheels in. I will email you a picture of a car that I finished this summer and we painted those ugly dark gray centers on the current Torque Thrust D's...............RatPack.....................

[Rat_Pack]

Stefano, never thought of using that. I wonder if you can tint that stuff. One thing is for sure, it should outlast the wheel............RatPack.................

Steve, did you get my email? Let me know if you didn't..............RatPack............

[Edited by Rat_Pack (01-30-2002 at 02:46 PM).]

[Belair62]

Based on discussions with some of knowledgeable wheel people I am reasonably sure you could get Torq Thrusts in natural as cast aluminum and gold or black painted spokes.Not sure of year but I will try and verify. Rat Pack I thought the gold hue was on the natural magnesium wheels. I used Aluma Blast on the re-pops and it looks very good.

[Stefano]

I love all the "POR" stuff and use it whenever I can. I use the chasis black on frame and suspension as opposed to powder coat for diver quality restos.

[whitetop]

Belair62, you are right. I have seen original ARE ads showing the wheels available in different colors but can't remember which color specifically. I think the wheels were initially only available in natural but later came out with different hues.
Dave

[68l30]

Rat_Pack,yes I did.You now have mail!I am after the natural look,but must be able to clean brake dust.This car will be driven,and driven hard.I would be afraid to put POR 15 on my rims even if it is just a little spot.If the color is not just right on the aluminum when dry,your stuck with it.


Steve

[Stefano]

Glass beeding works just fine to take off the manifold cast iron paint off alloy rims. It is not por 15, nor as durable.

[68l30]

Stefano,sorry.I know what your talking about now.I've seen the color on manifolds not a bad choice.I've seen it burn off on driven cars,but should be ok on low heat rims.

Steve

[Belair62]

Eastwood has stuff called Diamond clear for wheels.It comes in gloss or satin.This stuff works pretty good too but if there is staining in the aluminum .....

[Stefano]

Rat_Pak,
I have used "POR" cast iron gray exhaust manifold paint, with satisfactory results. While not correct for a judged car this works great for Cruisers and drivers. The POR is a bit lighter in color than current Torque Thrust "D"s but has the distinct advantage of heat resistance and durability. No clear coat necessary.
I'm sure you could figure out a way to add some gold tint for a more correct appearence.

[Rat_Pack]

Whitetop, I have never seen those ads for Torque Thrust wheels. There were a lot of owners that painted their wheels because it was easier to keep them clean or it complimented their car. As far as American offering such a service I have never heard or seen it. Now it is possible that some of the magnesium wheels were done that way.

Now wheels like the ET SUPER, Ansen Top Eliminator, Cragar G/T, Rocket RPM, and other similar wheels were offered in black or gold tone spokes and some even a dark gray matte finish. That was one thing American prided themselves on was unpainted wheels. I am not up on these brands as much as the Americans and some of them were offered in the "as cast" finish also.

Belair62, the gold/gray look was somehow done in the casting process. I have talked with guys that used to work for ARE in the sixties and early seventies and they are pretty quiet about the casting process. I gues they don't want the third world countries to know how we do things or something. From what I gather it was really not the metal they used but maybe something they added to the mold or possibly the casting itself. I do know that if the wheels are ever "bleached" with wire wheel cleaner or similar product they will turn white like most aluminum does from acid. There is no way to duplicate the look of an NOS wheel without painting them. Most of the time I just glass bead the wheel with new beads and then finish polish the rim with 180 emory cloth and then a coat of Mothers mag polish to make them shine a little.

If you get a chance to look at the back of a new Torque Thrust D, they don't always cover the backs of the spokes really well with paint. Look closely and you will notice that there is a pinkish gold tint to the aluminum on the spokes in the rough cast area. There has to be something in the casting process that does that, similar to the earlier wheels. Answer to your earlier question about the magnesium wheel finish, they do have a goldish grey tint at first and then over the years it turns more of a green/grey if they are not taken care of. I am not a big fan of those wheels for a restored street car or show car. But boy do those Halibrand Sprints look awesome when show polished! Looks almost like fine silver.

I too have used the Aluma blast paint on a set of those new wheels and it does look good. It beats having to try and glass bead that powder coating off of them...............RatPack................

[whitetop]

Sad to say most of the "casting jobs" have been moved to the third world countries. They may be able to teach us a thing or two nowdays. I would venture to say 30+ year old casting technology is a little outdated.
Dave

[Rat_Pack]

Whitetop, your right about the casting stuff going overseas. Even the diecast cars are being done over there. Ertl was supposed to move its operations to Peru or some other place like that. Not sure if they have made that move or not..............RatPack..........

[Jeff H]

I just picked up a set of 15x8-1/2 and 15x10 AR 200S wheels. I'm not sure if they're going to fit though and my car is at the shop so I can't do a trial fitting either. They have a 3.5" backspacing as well. RatPack, I just got them and tried to find the "American Racing Equip" cast into them, but I can't find it anywhere. I need to clean them up, but was there another manufacturer that made the 200S style wheel if these aren't AR? The guy claimed they were because he was the one that originally bought them way back when. I've heard from some other people that "American Racing Equip" wasn't always cast into their wheels and this is from people that bought wheels brand new in the box. Does anybody know if I can run 15x8-1/2 up front and 15x10 in the rear?

[Rat_Pack]

Jeff, every set of 200S ARE wheeels I have owned and have now, have American Racing Equipment cast into the backs. What you have are an exact copy made by Western sometime in the late 70's. I have never gotten the complete story on them but they seem to have come from the exact same mold. Unless you look at the backs of them you would never know. I have owned a few sets of those and a freind of mine has one on his car with the other 3 being true Americans.

I looked at a set of slot mags this weekend and they did not have any casting mfg name on the back except M.P.C AH-1 and they had ARE center caps. The centers came through from the back of the wheel which I do not believe that American ever did their slot mags this way. What is strange is that these wheels required use of the American small diameter lug nut. I passed on these wheels as I could not use them for my car but they were mint.

What year and type of car are you going to put these wheels on? I have had all types of combinations on just about all years of Camaro's and Chevelle's..................RatPack.............

[Rat_Pack]

Jeff, you are better off selling them. About the only ones that can use those are guys with the 70-73 Camaro's and 73-77 Chevelle's. Those slot's that I looked at buying were 15 x 10 and had 3-1/2" of backspacing and were on a 72 Camaro. They looked good on the back of it with 275/60 tires but they did rub a little, but not much.

The Blue Maxi (69 Car & Driver give-away car) had 15 x 8-1/2" 200S wheels on it with G60 tires but I do not know how they got them to clear on the front. The last time I saw the car it had 245/60 Goodyear Eagles all the way around. The rear wheelwell lips had been rolled under a little and a couple of the bolts holding the front wheelopening moldings on were removed. I could not tell if there was some "massaging" of the inner fenders for clearance. I sold a set of 4 8-1/2" rims to a friend and he put them on his 69 RS and he could not run the same size tire on the front as he did on the rear. He probably could have if he would have taken the time to do some measuring and test fitting. He is running a very short and narrow 75 series tire up front that really "balloons" the sidewall out, it does not look good at all. Try finding a pair of 15 x 7's to match the two 8-1/2's you already have and mix them up that way..................RatPack.................

[Jeff H]

I was going to put these wheels on my 69 JL8 Z28. I'm pretty sure the backspacing is wrong so I'll just sell them. They have push in center caps, not caps that mount from the rear. I've heard the ARE had other companies making wheels for them which did not have ARE on the back.

[Jeff H]

That's my plan. But the 15x8-1/2's have 3.5" backspacing as well and I'm thinking that might push them out too far. I'll see if they fit and if they do I'll keep them. I never realized how difficult it is to match up these older wheels with the right combination of size, backspacing, getting the correct lugnuts, center caps, etc. I guess this is part of what makes the restoration fun.

[tom406]

That's why there were so many god-awful flare jobs and air shock/shackle kits back in the day. It's amazing that it took 30 years to get wheels with decent backspacing options. Short of narrowing the rearend (on a JL8 car, LOL) I'd recommend searching the new wheel/retro style options by companies like ET3, American, and Vintage Wheel Works. Not the same, I know, but with early Camaros and midyear Corvettes, the options are limited. (Now with Impalas and Galaxies and the full size like, you can run just about anything, but thats another story)

[hugger1]

I have a set of the Mickey Thompson wheels Rat pack refered to.
Rat Pack , you cant get lugs for these wheels anymore ?
Is having a set machined the only option other than making the lug hole larger ?

[Rat_Pack]

Hugger1, I had a set machined down in length and drilled out the holes in the wheels. I did not want to machine the diameter of the lug nuts down as I was afraid that it might weaken them...................RatPack............