ZL-1 stamping numbers

[GMH454]

Please don't get excited. This engine was a crate engine. I have found some numbers stamped into various parts of it and would like to confirm their appropriateness. Do I throw up the questions here or should I address them somewhere else for confidentiallity sake (if so where).
Does anyone actually know how many of these were made. I've heard 154 but also heard that they were cast in batches of 300.

[COPO]

You can post them here. Nothing secretive IMO. The important info is the casting date. A 1969 casting date is certainly going to command more value than a later year.

[JoeC]

I don't know how many ZL1 motors were built but I have read that some of the race teams took them away by the truck load.

[GMH454]

Date is 1969 can't remember the actual but I think its Febuary. Will dig it out from the back of the garage on the weekend.
The numbers I was referring to were 107.
This is stamped in the Aluminium up near the top edge of the block in the lifter valley area. I think the back of the block.
What surprised me however was the bottom end caps were also stamped with the same number (using the same stamp) caps are steel and are also stamped with a sequence number. 1,2,3, etc. They were covered with surface rust and I did'nt really think they belonged with the engine but I was cleaning them up as I was sick of geting rust dust on my hands everytime I move them.
I can understand a race team may number the caps but would they number them in sequence with a block number
Engine pad stamping is1-8880-61-A, which is numerically in line with race engines supplied in around 1971.

[Kurt S]

They had to do some machining after the blocks were finished (I don't recall what they did) and they #'d the blocks and caps for reassembly.

[JoeC]

There were special assembly instructions for the ZL1 engines. There was an interesting post on this subject by a Chevy engineer on a Camaro site. Here is a copy of some of it.
" All manner of weird things were ordered via the COPO route - there were literally hundreds of COPO's issued, normally at the request of Engineering. If they were low-volume limited-edition cars (as few as one, in some cases), engineers (like I was) were assigned to get the special parts to the plant, gather them in one spot in the plant so they wouldn't get lost (or put on the wrong car), work with Fisher Body for any special parts that they had to install during the body-in-white, paint, and body trim operations, and literally follow the car through the plant to make sure the special parts were assembled properly. Higher-volume COPO's only needed this hands-on approach for the first batch of cars; after that the plant simply treated them like normal options. Most COPO's were a pain, but some were fun - when I was a young Production Engineer, I was assigned to the ZL-1 engines, and followed them down the engine dress line, making sure all the bolts that went into the aluminum blocks and heads were coated with anti-seize, hand-started, and torqued with torque wrenches instead of the production power tools. Watching them come off the line and go through the roll test was incredible - the roll-testers nearly fought each other to get the next one coming off the line. The good old days....."

[Kurt S]

Joe,
Who posted that and on what site?
Thanks!

[GMH454]

Thanks guys, does that mean all ZL-1s icluding the Camaros had matching block # stamped in the block and caps ? Also does anyone really know what the 107 means. Was it the 107th engine assembled ? Now that I think of it were the crate engines completed and put away or were they completed at time of sale, say 1971 or 1972. I wish I knew. Guy I bought my engine of after I bought it told me he bought it from Greenwoods workshop in Florida in about 1976. Has a burned TRW 2300
piston still in it.

[Peter]

Kurt, I'm 68SS396 from the Team Camaro website, which is where the post that JoeC is talking about originated from. I'm surprised you missed it! The link is
http://www.camaros.net/forum/Forum2/HTML/000286.html

[JoeC]

Kurt, his name on Team Camaro is JohnZ.
I also e-mailed him a copy of the COPO form that was in a magazine article about Kevin's COPO 427 1968 Camaro. Which is a subject still up for debate. Here is a copy of his reply.
"This is a normal COPO form, used to request production of a unit with equipment not in accordance with the released available production vehicle specifications.

What this form is requesting is to add the COPO 9737 Sports Car Conversion Package to two cars for which orders have already been submitted; the line entitled "Other RPO's....." identifies other options already ordered on the two units, which is why that line ends with "N/C", as those options have already been priced and charged on the original orders for those two cars, so there is no additional charge for them under the requested COPO.

The COPO 9737 cost $160.10, was available only on cars already ordered with the COPO 9561 427 package, and consisted of Z28 wheels and tires (E70x15 Goodyear Wide Tread GT's on 15x7 "YH" wheels, the Z28 Tire Pressure Sticker (code "DX"), and a 140 mph speedometer.

This form appears to add the 9737 package to two cars which were already ordered as 9561's, but adding the 9737 package was apparently overlooked when the original orders were submitted - this corrects the ordering error.

Best Regards,

John

[GMH454]

COPO, I will dig them out on the weekend. I keep writing them down, but I always forget where I put them. I don't think I had a date code on the engine pad. Porterfield showed me Chevy copy paperwork (now where did I put that) that showed my engine number was in the middle of a sequence of racing engines supplied in around 1971 ( I think ). Pretty sure date was not part of the numbers. Maybe that's what the 61A was.
Also were numbers like my 107 common to all ZL-1s. Whats your got?

[COPO]

Just went down in the basement, front pad is stamped TO307ML, down near the oil filter is stamped 19N620923, which is the VIN for car #51. (block came frome original owner of car #51) Caps are stamped 356, Raised casting date looks like 1 1969 then 472 under it. I have read that the 472 is an inventory number and it is directly below the casting date. These numbers are cast upside down on the passenger side of the block near the front of the engine. I'll look a bit more this weekend when I have more time to see if these ar additional markings.

[COPO]

I would be interested in the numbers from your ZL-1 block. Specifically, the block casting number from the rear, the block casting date and inventory number from the driver's side of the block and the assembly date coded from the front pad. I have a '69 ZL-1 block as well and would like to compare numbers to mine.

[Edited by COPO (09-27-2000 at 12:21 PM).]

[JoeC]

Do both of the ZL1 blocks have the Winters foundry snowflake casting mark in front above where the water pump would be? Also do they have the screw in freeze plugs or the std. type sheet metal freeze plugs. Just curious. Chevy was also selling a Can Am block with the 4.400 in. bore and siamese cyl. that was used for racing. I think this is the one that Yenko and Bill Smith sold in the 80's.

[COPO]

Winter's snowflake and screw in freeze plugs on mine. I've looked at the casting very carefully and it appears to be virgin stampings and the fact it was purchased from the original owner of car #51 leads me to conclude 99.99% it is legit.

[GMH454]

COPO, when Porterfield gave me the racing sheets he told me to look at the engine very carefully. When I looked in the lifter valley I was very surprised to find a set of stampimgs. Get out the flashligt and find someone with REALLY good eyesight. Mine were stamped on what look like bosses in the valley. In between watching the Olympics here I WILL dig out the remainder of the numbrers. Also check to see if your block is stamped with the 356 anywhere else other than the caps.

[Kurt S]

Thanks all. I don't watch the Bench Racing section so I missed those postings. I know John but didn't realize he worked on the ZL1's.
It will be interesting asking him some of the assembly questions we have.

Kurt

[GMH454]

COPO, the 107 is on the outside of the block at the back on a kinda boss at the top of the bellhousing area.
Cast numbers are date 1.28.69, numbers below are 128 number in circle to the right is 6.
Checked Porterfields letter (for which I am very grateful of)and the stamped number on the pad - 1-8880-61-A may be an order number.
McLaren had orders starting with 1-8880- also. Though thinking about it they should have been Can Am (Reynolds Blocks Hmmmm)
Does anyone know what the 107 means and do other ZL-1 engines have numbers on the blocks matching their cap numbers. ANY info appreciated

[JoeC]

GMH454, Do you know the cyl. bore diameter of your block? The CAN AM block started at 4.400 in. dia. and had siamese cast iron liners. I believe the Can Am Reynolds Alu. Blocks had no liners.

[GMH454]

Good point Joe. Its 40th over a standard bore. Which is funny cause I think the Green Book says they should only be bored 30th. Still looks to have plenty of strength between the bores, and they are sleeved. I have checked them before and they are the standard Zl-1 numbers.
Are the ZL-1 casting dates known anyone ?

[JoeC]

for the ZL1 fans - there is a "new" ZL1 on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=451215381&r=0&t=0

[GMH454]

Sorry guys you probably guessed I wrote the date wrong. Was 2.4.69.