Nickey -Yenkos

[Stefano]

A quote from the 1987 'Muscle Car Review' interview with Don Yenko states , "As a matter of fact, Nickey Chevrolet was one of the dealers selling the sYcs."

Does anyone have more info./opinions regarding this subject?

[JoeC]

That is a great interview and we are lucky to have it since it was done so close to Don's death. Unfortunately Don didn't have the most precise memory and some of the things Don said don't seem to correspond to the research. From what I can tell, there was some connection with Yenko, Harrell, and Dana on the assembly of the 1967 Camaros and I don't believe the 67s got the Yenko crest so when they went to the selling dealer who knows what the customer was told. (Don states in the interview that the 67 just got the 427 emblems)
I have some evidence that at least one 67 Yenko Camaro was sold as a Nickey Camaro by Burt Chevrolet in CO.

[copolocater]

Is it possible that a new supercar owner wasn't satisfied with his performance and traded the car in to another dealer who intern sold it as one of their own?Is it possible that Nickey was wanting to jump ship from Bill Thomas, which they eventually did,to look for another outlet to be able to cut some overhead?Did Nickey purchase a car to do a comparison?As you know copy a success to better your own!!Just some theory's.

[hvychev]

This is a tad bit off this thread subject but why have'nt that many Nickey Camaros, Chevelles, Novas been found? I have been doing some reading on Nickey Chevrolet and they offered transplant engines on all of the above cars. Did they ever sell any real COPO cars? Do we have any idea how many supercars cars they sold collectively over the years?
With guest speakers associated with Nickey comming to the reunion we should be able to learn a lot more than we know now. I for one cant wait to hear them speak at the reunion! /ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif

[Stefano]

Yes,Joe I agree it is a very interesting article and there are quite a few detail inconsistencies. If anyone hasn't read it in a while, like me, it will make for interesting reading.

It seems that the major focus was routinely on the 500 Copos and the mention that the Chevelles were conversion cars, but there is more,much more.

For Don Yenko to mistakenly identify Nickey Chevrolet as selling sYcs would be highly unlikely.

Nickey was a high profile dealership. They sold much more in parts, service and Car volume than Yenko Chevrolet. Don would have known of Nickey without any of the other connections.


Yenko was also familiar with Nickey through his roadracing exploits.

Dick Harrell linked both these two Delerships.

COPOs were much less expensive/profitable than conversion cars. It wouldn't make much sense for a dealer to convert a car which he could COPO order.

Don also states that Payton Wells/Dana Chevrolet offered to sell him conversion Camaros first, not the other way around.

I have always speculated that Nickey sold COPOs in 1969 but I don't ever recall hearing that they came from Yenko Chevrolet.

[JoeC]

In my opinion, the stripes had something to do with the cars being remembered as something special. The Yenkos and the Motion cars had distinctive stripes and seem to have some sort of advantage in notoriety. Nickey, Harrell, Gibb, Scuncio, Dana, Burger, Thomas, and others sold 427 cars but after a few years and an ownership change, they would blend into the population of modified cars. Even if the car went to a junk yard if it had stripes on it there was a better chance for it to be saved. IMO

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Stefano;
Are you vouching for Don's credibility in his '87 interview?? Remember, he also said he sold 500 Yenko Camaros in '69, 500 Yenko Deuces in '70, the list goes on.
/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[JoeC]

There are a lot of unanswered questions and we can only guess at what went on but it seems that some dealers did not use the COPOs. I don't think Motion used them at all and since he was installing headers and scatter shields etc. I don't think that starting with a COPO Camaro would have made much difference for him. If he began with a L78 he would only have to purchase a L72 block and probably could sell the L78 block for close to what he paid for the L72 block. A lot of Super Stock guys were racing the L78s. To install the headers and scatter shield he had to do some disassembly and if the customer ordered blueprinting or cam change he had to open the motor anyway. Another problem with the COPO may have been availability. The COPOs were not readily available at all times. As far as I can tell, Yenko, Gibb, and Berger block ordered them with a prearrangement with Chevy but I have heard stories where people would order them from other dealers and had a long wait or could not get them at all. Even Fred Gibb did some L72 427 conversions according to his interview and he certainly knew about the COPO program. I have not heard of any COPO cars related to Nickey. As I said - a lot of this is guessing.

[sixtiesmuscle]

I think you're probably all right to one degree or another. I do think that Nickey led the way on the conversion concept when the Camaro was introduced. They already had a very active high performance cars & parts department, so, it was a natural, and, they were equiped to do it.

I also think the Nickey and Motion cars tended to be more expensive becuase they sold the customer on the "extras", and, the ability to build a car that couldn't be bought elsewhere, and, just to the customer's specs.

[Stefano]

Marlin,
I have enough trouble vouching for myself much less any of the interview or anyone else for that matter. I am merely speculating and having some fun with what may/could have been.

I don't recall the number of Deuces or any of the other Super Cars as grossly misstated.

Reread the quote. He was very emphatic that Nickey sold sYcs. I still can't see him making a material mistake regarding Nickey as a sYc retailer.

I could certainly see why Nickey wouldn't advertise the cars as Yenkos since the factory was actually producing and providing warranties for them.

Nickey may have even allowed the public to believe that the 1969 Copos were Conversions. This would only add to the overall mystique and marketability of the Super Cars.

I do agree that the Yenko and Motion stripes served to help identify the cars as something special and in turn save some from obscurity.

Motion / Joel Rosen was in a different situation. He was the converter and thus paid for his labor and expertise to convert the cars. I wouldn't think Baldwin would have paid Motion much, if any of their profit margin. He would not have shared the same philosophy as the "New Car Dealers". It could have actually worked against him ,had Baldwin Chevrolet COPO ordered their own Super Cars.

Joels was also pushing the performance envelope as this was his main line of businesss. Super Cars were only a small fraction of a New Car dealers potential overall book of business.

It sure would be nice to get Joel Rosen's take on this.

Don didn't foresee that the insurance companies and regulators would eventually squash the muscle car movement. I believe he would have done anything in his power and authority to get Vince Piggens the 500 Copos which he promissed to sell.

[JoeC]

Both Jim M. and Don Y. remember the number of COPOs as 500. This 500 may be a real number that Chevy declared as a minimum needed to cover the added engineering and warrantee costs of the COPOs. Don may have intended to order the 500 but as the year transpired he realized the difficulties of moving the full 500 order. As it turned out Burger ordered 50 and other dealers (USA and Canada) began to ordered them as word leaked out so Chevy did not have to hold Don to ordering the 500. Chevy wanted to build at least 50 to make them legal for NHRA anyway. They did this with the TH400 L78 Nova and the ZL1 that Fred Gibb requested but was probably not too worried about warrantee problems on Fred's cars since most would be race cars and the volume was kept low. They knew Don was going to sell his as street cars so Chevy required the 500 minimum to help cover warrantee costs. They did have some problems with warrantees as some of the original owners have said. This is my opinion.

[Stefano]

Since Don Yenko was responsible for getting GM to proceed with the L-72 COPO program he inturn actually did accomplish his ultimate goal, of at least 500 1969 L-72 COPO Camaros sold.

They just all were not sYcs, as well!

[sYc]

To get Chevrolet to build the COPO, and to be elgible for NHRA Stock classes, Don and Frank had to agree to buy 500. Of course, ordering/delivery would be spread out over the entire model year. But, accoring to Jim Mattison, once Yenko was unable to move the cars, they was able to convince Chevy to cancel a portion of the order. Jim said that this was the only time he knew of that this was ever allowed.

But, Don had to stick to his story of 500 built, or other wise NHRA would have moved the cars up a classification to Super Stock, which only required 50 produced (Gibb's ZL-1s). Don did this number thing with the SCCA on the Stinger and also on the Yenko Deuce (for it to run in the stock NHRA classes).

I have read the article in question many times. And, until I acquired much of the Yenko paperwork, assumed that most of the numbers being thrown out there were correct. But, after spending many hours going over the paperwork, I can honestly say that Don was off on several counts in the article. Including numbers built for the '67, '68 and '69 Camaros. Was it on purpose? I think in some cases yes, othesr no. You have to remember that it had been 16 years and Don had been involved in many other projects. Tom

[Stefano]

Tom,
Thanks for sharing some of the unique Yenko information you have compiled.
Have you decided the format to disseminate some of the Yenko Estate documents, as well as other information which you have aquired?


(I meant Payton Cramer in my prior posted reference to Dana Chevrolet.)

[tom406]

In my collection of Hi Performance CARS magazines, there's a feature on installing a Hone-O-Drive overdrive in a '69 427 Camaro. It's described as a Phase III car, but is devoid of graphics or any sort of SS trim cues - I'd bet money its a Motion Prepped Baldwin COPO. The article said the owner was picking it up and driving across country to take it home. Definately a buyer tuned into the Motion Mystique and likely unaware of the shadowy COPO cars....I know this is a Nickey thread, but I thought I better respond to the Baldwin-Motion references.

[Stefano]

Cool find,which magazine is that article in? What is the date of the article to help place production of the COPO?

Silver or black grill?

[COPO]

Stefano, it's in the November 1969 issue of CARS. Certainly looks like a silver grill to me w/a blue bowtie and no SS emblems anywhere on the car. Could easily be a COPO. Great question to ask Joel Rosen.

[JoeC]

Tom, Did NHRA officially recognize any of the Yenko cars? I don't see them listed on the NHRA web site. (The Shelby cars are there.) NHRA would only accept production numbers from the factory so I don't think they accepted the 500 1969 Yenko Camaros as manufactured by Yenko. Chevy would have to supply the production numbers to NHRA like they did with the ZL1. The 69 Yenkos did not have the YS ID tags to show Yenko as manufacturer. I believe Yenko tried to get the 1968 Yenko Camaros approved by NHRA and that may be why he put the YS ID tags on them but I don't think NHRA accepted them for the Super Stock 50 car minimum. AHRA accepted dealer built cars with a 50 minimum and Yenko and Nickey both advertised their Camaros as AHRA legal. I think that many of the 67 Yenko and Nickey Camaros were sold with headers and scatter shields and other drag racing parts to run in AHRA classes. The Corvair Stinger was a completely different story where SCCA considered the car as a two seat "Stinger" manufactured by "Yenko Sports Cars" and they had to have the YS ID number to be certified. This is how the Stinger is listed in the SCCA rule book. This is my opinion.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

JoeC;
Didn't NHRA recognize the '69 Yenko Camaros for Super Stock since Ed Hedrick won the title in '69? I think he ran in SS/E class?

[JoeC]

Marlin, Yes - the 427 425 hp Camaro ran in Super Stock but not as a Yenko manufactured Camaro. The motor is listed under "Chevrolet" so I assume that Chevy supplied NHRA with the production information on the COPOs. The Shelby has its own listing separate from Ford. I know NHRA checked up on the factory production numbers because when Grumpy brought his ZL1 Camaro (built from his L78 car) to the track the first time, NHRA would not let it pass Tech because Chevy had not yet supplied the production info on the 50 car minimum. Grumpy told me this himself and I also have a magazine article stating the same. This may be one reason why the ZL1 vins were kept on record. This is why I think Yenko put the YS ID tags on the 68 Yenkos - to try and get NHRA to recognize him as the manufacturer and make the 427 Camaro legal for NHRA Super Stock 1968. He was not successful. Just my opinion.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I see!

[sYc]

Included in the Yenko paperwork are numerous documents that indicate that Yenko Chevrolet was instrumental in getting the cars classified for NHRA racing, even in '69 and '70. Tom