Identifying 1969 Baldwin Motion Corvettes

[Mark_C]

I've run across a beaten up 69 Corvette in the NE area that from it's condition has obvioulsy not been worked on or modified for quite a while. I'm into Camaors, not corvettes, so here goes. Is there anyway to identify (short of getting Joel Rosen to look at it) a Motion Corvette. I have not seen it in person just pictures of most of it.

It's a black T-Top coupe, Functional L88 hood (has an interior skin with a flange similar to a ZL2 hood in a 69 Camaro) with a big block engine and a muncie 4 speed. The engine tag on the console indicates 427/390HP. I don't have any numbers off the engine except the block casting which is 3902406 (which is a 67 396) The engine has a Holley 4 BBL double pumper (no number yet) with dual gas feeds, mechanical secondarys and a chrome cheapo Mr Gasket style 14" open element air cleaner. The paint code is 986 and trim code is 411.

The engine has Motion style valve covers, very old, missing the motion logo in the rectangular box in the top center of the valve covers. The wheelwells have been flared (long time ago), and the pop up headlights have been replaced with monza style fixed 4 headlight units inside the pop up head light door openings. and 4" chrome header/sidepipes. Pipes have been on the car for a long time by the looks of them.

The interior is basically gutted except for the black bucket seats with red diamond pattern center sections. 160 MPH speedometer, Cable driven Sun tach on the steering column.

Guy that owns it says the car originally had A/C but it's mostly gone now.

A lot of this stuff is what went onto a Motion car, but they also could have been added by any high school kid in the pat 33 years. Is there anything particular or peculiar to a Motion Corvette that would help ID it one way or the other?

[djunod]

I really only keep up with the Mako/Maco, so can't tell you much...

The valve covers that you mention were definitely available to the general public without any logo in them. So that doesn't mean much.

It doesn't sound like the original engine, even for a Motion built car (I'm no expert on that, but pretty sure it wouldn't be a used engine).

Doesn't sound like any headlight treatment that I've ever heard of for a Motion car either. Those headlights are also generally available from Ecklers.

I think you have found a random customization.

[Mark_C]

The head light treatment is what Motion did to some of the cars, along with something like a 240Z. Agreed the engine and probably the transmission aren't original to the car, and that most of the other stuff could be bought off the shelf.

I thought the car might be just a hot rod thats been modified over it's life, but most of the equipment Rosen put on these cars were off the shelf aftermarket stuff. It's the fact that this thing has so many of the items Rosen used, and that no one has messed with it for years. It looks like it's been sitting in a yard for 10 years or so. The guy selling it has not a clue what it might be, and is not claiming it is anything other than a corvette that needs a ton of work. As a matter of fact it was in our local want advertiser for $3K about 3 weeks ago and it didn't sell. It's going to go for more now because more people know that it's for sale. I don't know if anyone suspects anything else about it. The thing is rough, maybe rough isn't even the right word, but it's 85% there and it runs. Even if it was just a 69 big block vette originally it's worth $3K just for the parts.

[djunod]

I'm going to have to disagree with you on the use of the Eckler headlight conversion. I've had my Motion Maco since '97 and have been tracking the Motion Corvettes ever since. There wasn't that many Motion-built Corvettes made and I have never seen those headlights used on any of them.

[copolocater]

For the price you should have taken a CHANCE.This car is screaming motion or motion conversion or somebody that had 1st hand knowledge back then.Notice ZL-1 flares and possible cold air box under hood.For the price and $1500 you could have hit the jackpot,if not it will make a good convesation piece.I'd put it on a trailer and haul it around just as it is. /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[JoeC]

I agree with djunod, Motion used a two headlight tunnel front clip in 1969. The items you mention does not lead me to believe it is a Motion car but it is always good check.

[COPO]

All of the 69 Motion Cars that I recall seeing in magazines of the day always started life as 427-435 hp.

[Rat_Pack]

The car is now on Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1860454750 .....................RatPack...................

[Mark_C]

Heres some of the pictures of the horrible car:

http://www.townisp.com/~markcanning/vette/69rear.jpg
http://www.townisp.com/~markcanning/vette/69front.jpg
http://www.townisp.com/~markcanning/vette/69hood.jpg
http://www.townisp.com/~markcanning/vette/69engine.jpg
http://www.townisp.com/~markcanning/vette/69interior.jpg

Now that everyone knows where it is guess if anyone thinks it is one, it won't be selling for anywhere near 4K now.

[whitetop]

I've seen many Corvettes set up just like this one in the old Hot Rod type publications. Very Very common mods for the day. Kinda like how everyone is running cowl induction hoods today. Hard to say if it a Motion but my high school physics teacher back in late '70's drove a white BB Corvette set up just like this one: slots, side pipes etc. He still has it in the barn coverd with horse s**t.
Dave

[djunod]

That is definitely not a Motion car.

There aren't even any signs of Motion work present.

Like I said before, that is just a standard random '70's customization.

[Mark_C]

Then it will make a good project to work on with my son. Only way to beat a big block corvette coupe is to find a convertible big block corvette cheaper. Won't have to worry about "restoring" it, or if the numbers match.

[djunod]

Absolutely, I agree!

I saw it when somebody posted the link on corvetteforum. I personally wouldn't mind having it, but I already have enough toys and projects.

Best of luck with it if you get it. If you do restore it, restore it the way it is, not the way it was the day it rolled out of the factory. Already enough of that out there, and not enough evidence of the way the Corvette scene really was in the '70's.

[copolocater]

I'm curious what you don't see on this car that none of it points to it possibly being a motion converted car.Maybe not a baldwin car.Its probably not but there's nothing I see to discount this car.I'd hate to give this gentleman wrong info and it turn out being legitimate.I'm not questioning your knowledge but there might be something I'm missing.

[djunod]

The body certainly doesn't contain any of the usual markers of a Motion car. If you know of any other Motion vehicles that look like that, then please share the photos!

The only way to be absolutely sure is to pay the $1500 to Joel Rosen to lookup the VIN.

[copolocater]

I'm digging right now.What I'm concerned about is the slots,side exhaust,airbox in hood,ZL-1 fender flares,late 69 valve covers, L-88 type hood ,tufted seats and most of all northeast. I wouldn't discount it. If you look at his 78-79 catalog of everything corvette joel ever sold you'll see all these items I mentioned.Cover-headlights,page5-tufted interior,page8-headlights,page 17 hood,page 18-airbox,page 22-fender flares,page 35-side exhaustand page-36 slots.If anybody has this catalog and can post these items it would help.It has the van on the front.

[djunod]

Those are all standard items for the time, available from a lot of vendors, and used by a lot of customization shops.

If we want to go off location, then John Silva (Ipswich, Salem MA) is closer to that area and more prolific with customized Corvettes. From 1969 until 1979, he created 125 of the Maco body style alone (he did lots of other styles as well, but they were generally unique and not as common as the pictures here).

Motion only did 3 of the Maco body style (Silva is the original creator of the shape), and only did 1 of the "Manta Ray". I don't know number of Phase III 'Vettes, but it wasn't very large either. Motion's creations were rather unique as well, and not as common looking as the pictures here either.

There certainly are a lot of other shops in the area that did similar customizations in the '70's.