Copo Automatics

[mr gasser]

Can anyone tell me if copo automatic canadian cars came with out smog /ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif ????I have heard yes and no?

[Keith Tedford]

In the October 1991 Musclecar Classics magazine is a COPO automatic Chevelle chassis. The engine has the AIR setup.

[mr gasser]

Keith is this a canadian car?

[COPO PETE]

I'm told both auto's and 4 speed came with the smog set up. Some experts will argue this. I'm not sure, but I always found it interesting that on any Canadian build sheet I've seen, none have the smog pump boxes filled with a code of any sort.
Peter /ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif

[mr gasser]

Pete Thanks for your help . I would think it should have it also.

[Belair62]

Order the whole set-up from Ron Normann...they re-pop the correct manifolds too. Sounds good when they fart and pop with smog !

[Mr70]

I firmly believe that they did get Smog setup from factory.Regardless of where shipped.
Peter is right about no codes in smog boxes,but I always see box 36 or 37 showing YE. That is a Smog pump belt code.

[Keith Tedford]

There was also talk, at one time, that the Automatic cars came with a hydraulic cam. Where did that notion come from?

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Probably from '67? I know that the a/t '67 Yenko Camaros were 410hp because of the hydraulic cam.

[mr gasser]

Yes Rick looking at box 37 on build sheet it says YE Thanks.

[Keith Tedford]

Box 37 has belt coded YE for groove 2. Box 38 has belt coded HJ for groove 3. This applies to a 4 speed COPO car. These should show up on all build sheets but I have seen a 4 speed build sheet not showing the HJ code. Go figure.

[LT1vette]

Hi Ted....This was a bone of contention for years with L88 Vettes. With these cars that stuff was the first thing removed along with the exhaust manifolds. After a lot of research it was found that cars delivered to Canada came with the same poll. equip. as the USA, except for the California cars. Hope that helps /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif <font color="blue"> </font>

[Keith Tedford]

When I bought our Chevelle, the first thing I did was remove the AIR manifolds and pump. There must have been a slight misalignment issue because I started rolling belts at higher rpms. I put just the pump back on and had no more problems. There was no noticeable power gain any way. The addition of headers made a seat of the pants improvement. I'd put my money on ALL COPO, L78 and L88 cars having the AIR pump in '69. Just a personal opinion.

[Stefano]

Sounds like good logic to me.

[JIM]

Hi; Here's some info you may find helpfull. In 1969 all Camaro's built with a big block , L34,L35, L-78 and L-72 had smog equiment, regardless of transmission choice. Also all small block equipped camaro's built with a standard trans had smog equipment this included 307's, 350 2bbl's, 350 255hp's , 350-300hp's and 302-290 hp's. This also held true to a 6cyl std trans car. In The Chevelles there is an interesting difference. The above is shared with two exceptions. There was, as we know ,no 302 offered . Lastly the 396 325 hp automatic was not subject to smog controls. This also held true of the 396's found in the 69 impala. This is a key factor to why you find many more right hand exhaust manifolds dated 69 (178) than left ones with no smog provisions. I hope this helps . I have several early take off 69 pumps and several sets of 69 bb smog manifolds. for sale. Thanks Jim /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[olredalert]

Jim,

-----Im dont mean to cast doubt on your post,but I bought a new 69 Camaro 396/350 4spd. off the showroom floor in June of 1969 that had no smog equipment.I dont know how long that Camaro was for sale before I bought it,and dont know if the build time had anything to do with the smog equipment,but have always wondered about it.I know what alot of knowledgeable people say and yet I know what I bought.I have pics of the car,but none of the engine compartment.Not that that would really make a difference in as far as proof goes.I dont imagine my statements will make much differenceto any narrow minded people out there but thats OK,I know what I bought.
-------One of the reasons I remember the car so well is that I thought I needed a driver at that point,and passed up a beautiful COPO Chevelle as well as the Scunzio ZL1.Actually took the Scunzio car for a drive,but thought I couldnt afford it.How dumb was I???????.........Bill S

[RonNova396L34]

Bill,
For what it's worth, my August 69 built 1970 Nova 396/350 did not have smog. Plain manifolds.
Ron /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Belair62]

Jim....you have mail

[Jim Mattison]

Guys, hopefully I can put the issue of smog vs. no smog (including Canadian cars)to rest!

The validation and emission certification on the COPO 427 Camaros and Chevelles, both the aluminum and iron blocks were "grandfathered" in off the Corvette. The Corvette engines had smog pumps (both automatic and 4-spd), therefore so did the COPO cars (including the Canadian vehicles).

Jim Mattison

[olredalert]

Thanks Jim,

------That probably puts that question to rest on COPOs,but how about these lower horsepower big-block cars?Do you have the bottom line on them as well?Inquiring minds want to know!........Bill S

[sYc]

Jim; Thanks, this has been debated numerous times on this site, glad to get a definite answer. Makes sense since they are the same.

Now, to another question. The COPO cars (427) came with a 396/375 HP emission sticker. Why was this? It had been runored that they were "snuck" through, to save the hassle of going through the whole certification thing for just a small number of engines/cars. But, since the engines were the same, and were grandfathered in, why not have a 427/425 sticker?

And, by the way, hope the search for the Chevy records is going well. We all are anxiuosly waiting. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[Jim Mattison]

The 427 Camaros and Chevelles, from a scheduling (and internal paperwork) standpoint started out as L78 cars. The parts and pieces to build these cars as 427's was a lengthy process of adds and deducts to the L78 option.

I can only guess that the emission label was accidentally overlooked.

Jim Mattison

[sYc]

Jim; Thanks, makes sense. Another myth put to rest.

[JIM]

Hi; Your car being built in Aug of 69 has no bearing on how it was equipped . The only 70 Big blocks out side of Calf. cars that had smog were the L-78 and the LS-6. Thats it Period. There is no discussion on that one. Jim

[JIM]

Hi Bill; I can't answer that one. Did the dealer remove it and plug the manifolds? It wasn't uncommon for dealers to do that. One of my most memorable rides was in a red 70 LS-6 Chevelle on a sunday morning hanging the front wheels in the air , while everyone else attended the awards cerimony. Really wish I had made it back to drive the Ol' red thu the auction. Jim /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[Kurt S]

There was a really good thread on this a while ago.
Finally found it!
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=UBB10&amp;Number=13895

For the low-volume COPO, Chevy could piggyback off of the Vette certs. But for the RPO engines.....

From JohnZ:
ALL big-block '69 Camaros (L34/35/78/89) had A.I.R. systems, regardless of transmission application. EPA emission certification was done not only by powertrain, but by carline application, vehicle weight, aero drag, and coast-down horsepower testing, which created many variables. Every different situation required full EPA certification, including 50,000-mile durability testing, and Chevrolet apparently decided that rather than go to the time and expense of developing and certifying eight different low-volume Camaro big-block combinations, they'd go with only four, that they knew would pass and certify with A.I.R. For the high-volume passenger cars, however (Impala/Caprice), which were built in Nine assembly plants at 7,500 per day (vs. only one plant of Camaros when you factor out the Firebirds at Norwood), it made sense to certify high-volume passenger car combinations as much as possible without the added per-unit cost of the A.I.R. system, so many full-size Impala/Caprice big-block applications were developed and certified WITHOUT the A.I.R. system. I had a brand-new '69 Caprice 2-door hardtop with the 427/THM400 combination, and it didn't have A.I.R. either. Full-size cars and Camaros were totally different certification situations.

[olredalert]

Jim,

------You absense was duly noticed and recorded.Find me a nice clean original 86/87 El Camino and Ill forgive ya!............Bill S
------P.S.No,there were no plugs in the manifolds.

[mike32]

FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH, I HAVE A CANADIAN BUILT 69 IMPALA CUSTOM SS427(L-36). THIS CAR IS ROUGH BUT #'S MATCHING AND 98% ORIGINAL / UNMODIFIED, IT HAS NO INDICATION OF EVER HAVING ANY SMOG EQUIPMENT INSTALLED.

MIKE

[Keith Tedford]

The hydraulic cammed big blocks outside of California wouldn't have the smog pump in '69. The only decals under the hood of our COPO Chevelle was the little Tonawanda piece on the passenger valve cover. There was no positraction decal in the trunk either. These decals may have been hit and miss like the steering wheel emblems. Not being RPO, the guys on the line probably slipped up by times. They can just about build RPO stuff with their eyes closed.