1969 COPO Camaro w/Documentation

[fcneg4]

Do you guys believe that these cars will continue to appreciate at the current pace? Any ideas? Thank you. I am not a dealer.

[T Billigen]

I think they will still increase in value but at a slower rate. I can't believe they will increase like they have in the last year. A good example is the ZL1s, about a year ago you could get one for 150K now you can't touch one for less than 275K! Do I think they are worth these prices? Yes, if Cobra's are selling for this kind of money there is know reason a ZL1 should not be in the same price range, they are just as exotic. When BKH had his Camaro for sale for 150K, I thought that was kind of high but not now! I won't belong before the matching number frame off Yenko Camaros will be pushing 200K. The Yenko Chevelles have always been under priced but I will bet you can't touch one of them for less than 125K. The Deuces have been edging up to 50K and you get one the quality of Kevin Hand's Hugger Orange you could be pushing 70K! I know one thing, if I had the money LV's ZL1 would be sitting in my garage! That is a gorgeous car! I would also talk him out of that "new" Hugger Orange Camaro that he has! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[fcneg4]

Thanks for the information. Who is the person to see to find a genuine COPO? There is a Hugger Orange RS version offered by World Wide Muscle Cars by (I think) one of the guys who uses this web site. Is the $125K price reasonable? I have followed the WWMC site for some time and the dealer has nice vehicles, but they all seem to be pretty pricey? Fred Gustat, Illinois, (815) 223-5828

[SS427]

Welcome aboard Fred. If all things stay the same, you will very much enjoy the info you receive here.

Check with the COPO Connection, their link is on the main page. Ed is the man with the numbers. As far as locating one for you, there are MANY members on this board that can help you if that is what you are looking for.
Rick N.

[whitetop]

Fred
Not to tlk you out of buying one of these cars but BEWARE.These cars went skyhigh back in the late '80's when the stock market tanked and people who were not really into these cars put their money into them because of the 15-20% year gains (or more).. The Wall Street Journal had regular columns about the high returns on collector cars. When the market boomed again the car prices crashed for close to 10 years. When the stock market tanked 3 years ago the prices really started to get high again. Also based upon your first post it seems like besides wanting a Copo, monetary gain is what you are looking for in the long term-at least that's some of the impression I get. My opinion is all the high dollar cars will get a significant value adjustment towards the minus side once the stock market comes back very strong. It will not be the value of the cars 3-4 years ago but will be significant enough that some regret their decision(ones who bought the cars late in the game when prices are maxed out-maybe like now??). Besides we are into buying these cars for the love of them 1st and monetary gains are not the first reason why we buy them. Right? Of course this is my opinion and I'm sure I will get flamed by others.
Dave
P.S. If you read the old musclecar mags from the late '80's the same tone of "these cars will continue increasing each year" was the theme. I remember reading about one guy buying a '68-'69 Hemi Roadrunner for 60 grand and two years later could not get 40K for it. Can't remember the $numbers but he took a bath.There were many others.

[SS4Real]

I would completely agree with the last post from whitetop. As a former corporate VP for a large brokerge firm, his comments regarding the inverse relationship between collector cars and the stock market is pretty accurate. Buy the car if you love it, making money on your collector car in the long run is pure bonus. Just my opinion.

[azrapse]

Just found these two Fred.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6161&item=24314212 91


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6161&item=24314918 92

[55chevy]

oh... Isn't that the dreaded burnished brown 'copo'?? So has that one been determined to be the real deal or is it a re-bodied clone of some sort?? Not trying to start a rumor or anything, I just know this car has been discussed ALOT in the past and I just want the facts. Can anyone shed some light on this for the rest of us who are unsure? Thanks /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[55chevy]

Beautiful car non the less.. I was always in the thought that brown looked good on paneling, snickers bars and turds.. but DAMN, it looks good on that Camaro /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[T Billigen]

You are right about the the stock market having alot to do with the price of some of these cars! The early 90s were a prime example. There was a lot of speculation on all muscle cars back then, and they all took a big hit! For whatever reason this time it seems that the Chevys have really taken off, especially the Camaros. The difference now people are better educated as to the history of the Yenkos,COPOs, and the ZL1s and see the historic value. I'm sure prices will level out and may even go down but these cars will always be a valuable part of automobile history. The way it looks with the chaos in the middle east and this recession, I don't look for a drop in value for a long time to come, if ever. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[Stefano]

The Orange RS Copo from WWMC was recently sold at Auction.

The Brown RS Copo is not a clone.

[T Billigen]

The COPO is really a nice looking car but I quess it is the color that kind of hurts it! If it was red or orange i'm sure it would have already been sitting in someone's garage! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[olredalert]

--------Is the Burnished Brown COPO the RS car that has recently been located in western Michigan?Looks like all the same options.
--------I believe the one with the questionable past is not an RS.............Bill S

[T Billigen]

This is NOT the one that is a fake! I think this is the real deal! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[69_BM_LS7]

Yes Bill the brown one is my old RS/COPO. It is a highly optioned real car. Even though it is not the same old orange or yellow it is beautiful. Bill

[fcneg4]

9/7/03

Hi, "T":
Thank you for the reply. I appreciate it. I may actually
start the search for one of these soon. We'll see - it depends on whether or not I can get a real one for a reasonable price. Thanks!

Fred Gustat

[fcneg4]

9/7/03

Hi, Rick!
Is that you? Wow, what a web site this is, eh? Good to
see you in print. I will call you this week about an LS6 you know. I thought this search was over, but maybe not. Take care of yourself and I'll call you this week.

Fred Gustat

[fcneg4]

9/7/03
Hi (Dave?) and thanks for the sobering thoughts. I appreciate your input and have wondered about that myself. I guess it's like anything else you purchase, you have to "buy it right". I started thinking about buying one of
these just to make a few dollars and that is still on my mind, but I would like to own and drive one for awhile and know that it would hold its value/appreciate while I have fun with it. That's the scoop. Thanks again. If I get serious about the search, I'll write you again.
Fred Gustat

[fcneg4]

9/7/03:
Hi, Jim:
This whole thing started with a search for an LS6 with original sheetmetal, drivetrain, and documentation. I couldn't find "the right one" and here I am in Camaro land. I love both cars, but I still would go for a real LS6 if I could find the one I have in mind. So, it's either an LS6, a Z/28, or a COPO, but the COPO is a BIG, BIG maybe for dollar reasons. Know of any real LS6's for sale in the $50K to $65K range? Thanks.
P.S. I know that love of the car is paramount with most enthusiasts, but because they now are SO expensive, I have to think about value/appreciation in a few years - I need to know I can make an exit without taking a bath if I have to sell the car or if I want to sell to buy another one.

Fred Gustat

[fcneg4]

9/7/03

Thanks for the reply, Bill. This is a great web site - very
helpful people.

Fred Gustat

[hvychev]

Why are you posting private e-mail conversations that you had? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[shor]

Frank, sit back ansd let sixtiesmuscle handle this.

[Mr70]

Who Urinated in YOUR Cereal Frank? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Chevy454]

Are those emails or is he just replying back to previous posts in the thread?

[sixtiesmuscle]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif I'm here. Just staying out of the line of fire these days. For a change.

[hvychev]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif No it's OK. sixtiesmuscle go GET HIM!

[MotownMadman]

Frank,
If I didnt know better......I would say you are starting trouble.....again!
Motown /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[hvychev]

Speaking of which.......How is that 900 mile GTO deal comming along? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[MotownMadman]

Frank,
Turned out to be a beautiful car, however, my cousin is very aware at how beautiful as he quoted me $75,000 as a price to family. I didnt want to burst his bubble but I dont know of any GTO that would command that much.
Motown /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Stefano]

Find me a nice driver '71 HO Judge rag top and I will gladly pay the $75,000.00 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Mr70]

That would be his other cousins car,....twice removed. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[DougArbour]

the burnished brown copo is the real deal , this is one of 9 rs copos ever built and i have all of the documents to prove that it is the real deal, so lets not start any rumors about this one of a kind copo.doug a whoever buys this car will be a very happy camper

[camarojoe]

Just curious... where are you getting the figure of 9 RS Copo's built? I think I've seen almost every one ever made if that is truly the case...

[55chevy]

Doug we cleared up this subject a while back. But there is another burnished brown "copo" circulating that is rumored to be a re-body.. Not an RS car though. You have a very nice Copo. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[Charley Lillard]

"this is one of 9 rs copos ever built"... Unless you are Jim Mattison in Disguise you have no way of knowing that . 9 Is nothing more than a guess.

[DougArbour]

Thanks for the reply on my copo, if anyone out there is looking for a nice copo I am activly taking offers on the car now , this is a documented car. thanks ,Doug A.

[DougArbour]

I wont throw that number (9) out there anymore you guys know more than I do about the actual number of cars I must have been given the wrong information. just wanted to clear that up. do you know the actual number? Doug A

[Charley Lillard]

I don't think anyone at this Time knows the actual number. Maybe when Jim M comes out with the Records we will know. Off the Top of my Head I thought of 2 Fathom Green, 1 Azure Tourquoise, 1 Black,1 Yellow, 1 Brown,

[DougArbour]

so it would still be a very small number of cars?

[Charley Lillard]

Yep..

[camarojoe]

Im addition to the ones Charlie mentioned, i can think of a couple more...there's the blue RS ZL1, the silver 9561 that was outside at SCR6, the orange SS/RS copo, and the Scott Tieman restored Berger RS copo that was posted on here a few months ago. I'm sure there are more I'm forgetting.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I don't know if the blue RS ZL1 would be a COPO (?)

[camarojoe]

Hey Marlin, Last i checked, a ZL-1 was COPO 9560. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[55chevy]

Did any of the 69 Baldwin/Motion Camaros start life as a COPO? Or were they all transplant cars? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Zedder]

One Fathom green up here /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[camarojoe]

[ QUOTE ]
Did any of the 69 Baldwin/Motion Camaros start life as a COPO? Or were they all transplant cars? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

According to Joel (at SCR6) he did not use any COPO cars for his conversions... although someone (JoeC maybe?) Posted an old CARS magazine article that showed a Motion 69 Camaro that SURE did look like a COPO to me... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[COPO PETE]

There was as least 6 RS COPO Camaros sold in Canada alone. But still a very rare piece.
Peter

[JoeC]

I have an article where Motion worked on a 69 Camaro that appears to be a COPO with light color grill and no SS emblems but the article was not clear about the origin of the car. It did not say if the car came through Baldwin or if the guy brought the car to Motion. No Motion emblems on it but I have not found any 1969 pictures of Motion emblems. Has anyone found a original picture of a 69 Motion with car with Motion emblems?

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

You're right, I was thinking of the ZL1 'vettes.

[COPO]

Both Joel and Marty Schorr have been very consistent over the years in stating that they had no knowledge of the COPO program. I also have the article that Joe C. referred and the car is clearly a base car non-SS, however, it could have been a customer car modified by Motion.

As far as emblem go on a 69 BM car, I have not seen a vintage BM picture showing one, however, these emblems were available late in 69 per the Motion catalog, so I think it would not be incorrect to have them on a late 69 Motion car. On my 69 which is a very late car and has a 10E build date, I am using the "SS427" emblems on the exterior and the polished valve covers with motion emblems.

[55chevy]

COPO, how about sharing some pics of your B/M Camaro. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Would love to see it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[COPO]

If you went to SCR6, you got to see Joel signing the trunk lid. If you go to SCR7 you'll get to see the car finished and running down the track. It is still undergoing a frame-off restoration. Next time I go up to the shop, I'll take a few pictures as it has just recently been sprayed. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[Mr70]

I remember that Charlie.
I would like to see the rest of that Car too.

[55chevy]

got any pre-resto or "as found" pics laying around? Love seeing those too. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[Pantera]

I have to agree with you on the BM Emblems not being made till late '69. My first (Joel's) orange/black Vette did not have them on the hood or valve covers and the white '70 Motion I have did have them on the hood which would leave me to assume that they did not start to use them till sometime in the summer or fall of '69.