Jim Kirby's 1968 Harrell Funny Car for Sale! [Archive]

396L35

10-27-2003, 05:04 AM

This is for Mike Guarise, lets get something straight the car was never owned or driven by the late Dick Harrell, I was there when Jim Kirby told us the story about the car. Jim had the car built for him by Don Hardy back in 1968 and this is around the same time Dick had his car built. When Jim first raced the car it was painted gold, it wasn't repainted to the Harrell colors until Harrell and Kirby joined up together later on in 1968. At that time the car was painted with Dick Harrell on the rear quarter and Kirby's name on the front fender along with Boemler on the door. In 1969 Harrell took his car back to Hardy where the 1968 body was exchanged for the 1969 body, but it still had the 1968 frame. Jim had nothing but good things to say about Harrell. The reason him and Harrell broke up the team is when Harrell put a HEMI in his car and Jim refused to switch to a non-Chevy engine. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif I can respect that!!! As for the car, it is the real thing and it has never been altered, wrecked, burned, etc. Jim had to take off the Harrell name when they split up, and in the right light you can see Dick's name still in the gold leaf, as for the Boemler logo, that was removed and Super Rat was painted on top of that and belive it or not you can see the logo outline on the side of the car. You can believe
anything you want about this team but picture don't tell lies. Jim had a whole S--T load of pictures his car with Dicks car and the two of them were right next to each other. I think that you need to come down to St. Louis to see the car for yourself and bring anybody else that wants to come. It might be your only chance to experience something that was so close and was part of the Harrell experience. Enough of that, Charley Bill's car doesn't have Harrells name on it anymore, it has Bill Porterfield on the rear quarter now. Maybe he didn't want to pay for the rights either. I think that sucks, here are two pieces of racing history that can't even show there true colors because of money, where the hell is it going to stop????? I wonder if Bill has to pay rent on the #1 ZL-1 because Harrell used to race it, or all the spectators at every track that Harrell ever raced at has to pay a royalty fee,
or my freind might have to pay cause you can still see Harrells name on the car, or the whole State of Missouri because Harrell used to live here. I understand the pain of a lost love one, but to actually try to make money off of something that the person was part of is crazy. I know the owner of the funny car isn't saying anything that isn't true to sell this car, its just a great piece of racing history that is still with us and not destroyed by time or anyother un-natural disasters. This is America lets try to act like Americans. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif Last for MotownMadman, Kevin does have a 1969 Yenko Camaro, and is thinking of buying the Nova, he just has to sell this car cause his wife doesn't want him to have it and that is the truth. She doesn't care about all the other cars that he has or wants, its just that this is a race car and she doesn't want this to get in the way of thier business restoring cars instead of racing nostalgia cars. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

MotownMadman

10-27-2003, 05:24 AM

396L35,
Who in the heck is trying to charge money? They are basically holding history hostage! Porterfield went way out of his way to restore the ZL-1 to be the Harrell car, now history has to stop for the next generations so they cant experience it? If Dick were with us I am sure he would want nothing more then to see his life's work and ambitions respected and paid tribute to by having his name out there for everyone to see and enjoy to this day. He wouldnt want a few bucks in his pocket, he would want to hear his name over the loudspeaker at the drags! I would give anything possible to have that funny car, I would put Dick's name back on the car and let the attorneys try and catch me to try and take it off. The current owner didnt give me a ball park figure, so I dont know if this is something feasible for me to alter my life to go after or not. This car needs to be put back as it was to preserve history! A new owner could always get a legal name change to Dick Harrell then put it on the car!
Motown /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

396L35

10-27-2003, 05:33 AM

I'm glad you feel the same way as I do. I have been part of this cars history bringing back from the dead out of Kirbys garage and it has been fun. The person is Harrells daughter, she is the one that caused the sell of the car to be put on halt. She feels that she owns the rights to her fathers name and wants to be paid for the name where ever it may appear, even on a race car that was helping her father put food on the table for her when she was younger. Jim Kirby used his money to buy the car and Harrell came to him and asked him to race under his flag. I feel this car should have that name with it without paying the royalties from some greedy person. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

MotownMadman

10-27-2003, 05:39 AM

Find out what the bottom line is with your friend if I give my word to run the Dick Harrell name on the car. Let me know.
Thanks,
Motown /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

396L35

10-27-2003, 05:48 AM

I think if you go down to see him and look at the car you can get your your answer from him. It's only a five hour drive from Chi-Town. I don't know what he wants for the car nor do I know what he gave for it that was between him and Jim and I didn't want to know. He probably would be willing to trade for the car but like I said its not mine to say. I know he was going to reword it and put it back on ebay, but if you want to see it I will tell him to hold off. I dont think the car needs to be redone. It is kinda cool to see the faint letters in the gold leaf and Dicks daughter cant take that away. Mark /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

moparts

10-27-2003, 01:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This is a once in a life time opprotunity to own an <font color="red">all origional Dick Harrell 1968 Camaro funny car </font> .How many of these cars do you think are still around?Much less one that has never been wrecked,repainted,or stripped of it's original parts.You will not have to go looking for anything to enjoy this car right away.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the one that wrote up the ebay add caused most of the confusion with that statement.

Herzog

10-27-2003, 01:36 PM

Get me a number and an address I would be interested in speaking with the owner about purchacing this car. I am local here in St. Louis.
Thanks Doug Herzog
www.herzogracingengines.com (http://www.herzogracingengines.com)

396L35

10-27-2003, 03:21 PM

Maurice, I think your right about the ad that was on Ebay, it is confusing but what he was trying to say is that it was sponsored by Harrell and the car is still in the Harrell paint. As for the daughter of Dick Harrell I wanted to say that I was sorry for being so harsh towards you because I recieved a phone call this morning telling me the reasons for the money to advertise your fathers name. If anybody should get money from his name it should be the family first. Thanks, Mark /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

sYc

10-27-2003, 04:04 PM

Mark, nice post. Glad you, the owner and the family were able to work things out. A really neat car, where ever it ends up, and with whatever paint scheme. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

sYc

10-27-2003, 04:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I would put Dick's name back on the car and let the attorneys try and catch me to try and take it off.

[/ QUOTE ]

Matt, the very reason folks assoicated with supercar families at times seem cold and/or hard to deal with. Often times they feel used and abused, simply over a few $$$. Following Vettefset last year, the Gibb family was drawn into a mud slinging affair over a "proposed" Gibb funnycar. Just recently Mr. Motion had to resort to legal actions to try and clear up a matter he was drawn into, and now the Harrell family. At least get both sides of the story (speak with Valerie), as Mark did, before going off on one of your rants. IMO, these familes deserve our respect, not our bashing.

copolocater

10-27-2003, 04:59 PM

Tom just so theres no missunderstanding the "proposed" 1969 Gibb funnycar was for sale at Vettefest for what I considered a fair price of $25,000.There was no name attached to that car whatsoever and being that price i was not taking advantage of anybodys name.What transpired at the show is over and done with.I get along with the Gibb family and respect them as great people.Just clarifying.I do agree with Tom in one aspect Hope Yenko deserves respect for not charging to put the Yenko name on the Yenko cars.

MotownMadman

10-27-2003, 06:00 PM

Tom,
Obviously I wasnt serious about letting the attorneys chase the car, and I dont agree with using anyones name for the purposes of making a copy/clone or whatever the politically correct name may be these days, or using a family name for the purposes of profit. However, to use the name in a non-profit and non-malicious way in the course of preserving history should not be a problem. Obviously this type of situation is something that has to be a case by case basis to be overseen by family, but if the car came originally with a certain name or design it should be allowed to be restored to original. For example, suppose the Yenko family decided to protect their name to the point that if you were to restore your Yenko no stripes were available due to family rights, so then you have a set made to bring your car back to original and the family takes you to court to make you remove them. Now you have a Yenko which could never be original again. That does not seem fair, and yes this is an extreme example, but if history shows through photographs or documents that a car had certain designs or names when initially built then that car should be allowed under law to retain it's originality thereby preserving it's history. The new ZL-1 with the Harrell name on the side is a different matter. That is an after the fact situation that would certainly require permission from the family or rights holder, I am in complete agreement, but a car that obviously at some point had the permission to use that name should be allowed to do so in the absence of a document from Mr. Harrell to Mr. Kirby from that initial time period stating the rights were withdrawn. In the course of restoring a famous Rembrandt the signature requires to be gone over and repaired, suppose the Rembrandt family came forward and said "No, permission is not allocated for the Rembrandt name to be used" So all Rembrandt works have to have the signatures removed because the family requests it? I do believe the families in these type of collector car situations should pay close attention and be treated with respect over the name, but at the same time the advocate of preserving the history of these cars and the hobby in general should be allowed to preserve and maintain the history of these vehicles. If the car had that name when built, then it should be allowed to keep the name to maintain it's originality. IMO
Thanks,
Motown /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

396L35

10-27-2003, 06:52 PM

Tom, I didn't speak with Valerie this morning, even though it would be an honor, it was an individual interested in the car that happens to know the Harrell family. Your right, I shouldn't have bashed Valerie last night on the rights of her fathers name, but I feel the same way Matt does on this subject: If the car came with it, and you can clearly see it still on the car, then why not let history be told the way it was. I don't want to see this car having to be repainted, over the rights of someones name, it should be left alone and enjoyed by all that see it. If I am out of line let me know???? But in all respect for the Harrell family I think Dick would love to see the car as it was back when he was teamed up with Kirby and Valerie has to see that this is a piece of racing history that her father was heavily involved with and loved...Mark /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

sYc

10-27-2003, 07:42 PM

Mark, no problem here. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif A sticky situation to say the least. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

sYc

10-27-2003, 07:56 PM

Let me see if I understand what you are saying. If the family gives us what we want, which is use of the name for free, that is great, we respect them. But, if they try to profit from the name, then we should say the hell with them and just do it anyway. Sorry, I respectfully disagree. I guess that is why I am the only one who ever went to the trouble to ask/recieve permission from the Yenko family/estate to use the Yenko name. And, why I helped both the Harrell and Gibb families trade mark their logos, when I could have done it myself, and generated a lot of $$. Sorry, but to me, there are right ways and wrong ways of doing things.

whitetop

10-27-2003, 08:21 PM

Tom Clary

Through a nice windfall I just bought the following companies: Cragar, Don Hardy and B&M. Effective immediately remove the above mentioned names & logos from the side of your '68 F/C or we will pursue this matter in court.

Motown your last post is the most common sense I've heard on this site in along time and I agree 100%.

sYc

10-27-2003, 08:41 PM

Make jest, poke fun, what ever, make light of the situation, that is fine. But, remember, members of the Harrell, Yenko, Gibb, Rosen, Nickey and maybe even other supercar family members frequent this site. I would imagine they are not too excited about the tone of this thread, and may be even harder to deal with in the future. And, who could blame them. I know I would be hestitate to bid/negotiate on the Kirby car right now, knowing I might need to deal with the Harrell family in the future.

moparts

10-27-2003, 09:34 PM

Using a name such as Dick Harrell, or others to gain a profit from what you are doing or selling falls into a different category than having a car with a name on it.
In the case of this car, as I stated before I think the biggest problem was in the wording of the ebay ad. The car is not an original Dick Harrell funny car; it is an original Jim Kirby funny car that was run under the Dick Harrell banner for a year or two. If I remember the story right Dick installed the blown engine in exchange for the use of the car for this time period. So with taking that into consideration it is a Jim Kirby funny car with a Dick Harrell engine. Whatís that make the engine worth? The wording of the ad could have (and I say could have because it may or may not make a difference) a great deal of influence on the price of the car. I think this was an honest mistake and applaud them for stopping the ad to fix the problem. I do believe that it would benefit them to talk to Valerie and get things straightened out to get the name back on the car. The car is a great piece of history the way it is, Jim Kirby history!

Just my 02 worth....ok maybe 03

sYc

10-27-2003, 09:40 PM

A point to ponder. Anytime one of the supercar families agree to the use of their family name/logo on a car, they are actually "authenicating" it. A very big issue in this day and time. This alone can make a car worth 2-3 -? times more then another similar car. Are not they entitled to a portion of this windfall?

bkhpah

10-27-2003, 09:43 PM

Has anyone even asked Valarie what her ideas are? I have talked to her. She is very nice and I respect her. Most of you have never spoke to her or heard any of the things that have happened to her over her fathers cars or business. But yet you bash her anyway because it does not agree with your feelings. The Harrell family should have a say in what goes on. I know some things are in the works that would make most Harrell fans stand up and cheer. Things that are being looked into by Valarie and others that are close to her and who she respects. The way this thread started, I wonder why they even care sometimes. If it weren't for Harrell, maybe some of your other Supercars Dealer {Yenko, Nickey etc.} may have never been realized. Let's hear the Harrell side of things..BKH /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

55chevy

10-28-2003, 02:02 AM

I agree with Brian. I'd say before anyone says any more about the Harrells, you should spend some time over here.
Enjoy. http://www.dickharrell.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

Belair62

10-28-2003, 02:36 AM

Why is this such a big deal ? Because of the wording in the E-Bay listing ? How many old race cars from very famous people...whether team cars or not have been dug up,thankfully and put back to their old glory in the best "livery" the car had....look at all the old Pontiacs and MoPars that went on to finish their useful lives as workhorses at local tracks.Only to be found later and brought back to glory....no one would want to restore one of these cars to say...the day it caught fire and make it looked burned up...or put the lettering of some obscure but hard working racer that used it for 10 years after it's famous racer sold it...I don't get it. Where is the insult here...

10-28-2003, 05:00 AM

While I'm an outsider to the parties mentioned, I think one should look at the whole situation realistically. I'm sure the Harrell family are nice people but let's be honest. Dick Harrell was a drag racer in an era in which he had limited marketability. That is to say he raced, and became famous when the marketing of his name wasn't even thought of in the way we know it today. I would bet that if you asked 10000 people on a city street who he was, maybe 10%would recognize his name, even when he was alive and racing. Today I bet it would be close to .0001%. That being said, if we are saying that the family is trying to make sure others don't profit off of his name and legacy, then isn't it a catch 22? By that I mean, do you really think the family will sell t-shirts, plaques, or whatever if the product that made the guy, somewhat famous in the first place isn't allowed to be used by others? If the family wants his legacy to continue, how is it going to happen when a) the guy is not here any longer B) even when he was here, his "notoriety" was limited (again today ask 10,000 people anywhere who Michael Jordan is) C) the people that are best situated by owning the products that made the guy famous in the first place, can't even use his name to insure that future generations even have a clue..Sure the fact that the guys name is attached to some car, might increase the value of it, but if it weren't for the guy that owns and spends HIS money racing or displaying the car, do we really think people would care enough to want a t-shirt?? Doubtfull..

The bottom line is that every time Bill Porterfield raced car #1 or that '02 #1 was pictured,with "the name" applied, the family stood to make money through sales of merchandise, and more importantly the legacy of "Dick Harrell" would contine.

sYc

10-28-2003, 02:12 PM

You make some very valid points, and I agree with them. BUT, shouldn't the decision of how/if, the name is marketed, be up to the family, not outsiders?

10-28-2003, 03:09 PM

Well in the strictest sense..yes. However for the family it is a fine line. On one hand the family has to make sure that the name isn't being used in a way that degrades the "legacy" of the person. Also they have to decide how much money can/will be made if the name isn't protected and if it is protected. They then have to weigh them against each other. Look at it this way..let's say the family says "all items (cars,shirts,hats, web sites..) that have the name "Dick Harrell": must be licensed through us." What happens to any legacy? On one hand the family might run the risk of a tarnished legacy (through "outsiders' misuse) or not "reaping" the financial rewards of the name. However if they take complete control of the name and its' usage, they could be preceived as "greedy' and of "hyjacking" history, and any perceived "legacy" dies as a result.

Putting everything into perspective..Go to the drag strips today and ask teenagers, hell even 30 year olds (which are the future of car collecting and of keeping whatever "legacy" alive) who Dick Harrell is? How many will be able to say?? Go to a basketball court in BFE..ask a kid (even one 6 or 7) who MJ is? Get the point... I think too many people are loosing sight of the bigger picture here.

The correct answer to all of this is that both sides (the families and the owners/marketers) need each other...That is the family can't keep any legacy alive without someone using the products and getting them exposure to the masses (espcially since they don't even own the things by which the name is recognizable in the first place). Conversly without the families support through documenting and attending functions the owners of the cars loose out as well. Just my take on it.

hvychev

10-28-2003, 04:43 PM

Greg, both posts very well said IMO.

Tom, I also like Belair don't know where the insult was. I have even re read the posts.

I also have spent hours talking with Valerie and Dale via their website thru the chat room. I did take the time out and learn about her family, her memories of Dick, and all that she personally went through in Dicks years of racing. IMO they are very good people that just want to keep the legacy of Dick Harrell alive.

Here is where I am confused. The above mentioned cars (Kirby Funny Car, and ZL1#1) had Dicks name on them back in the day. They are very significant pieces of history. I personally think that that ZL1#1 has to be the most historically significant supercar in existence. With that said, where is the crime so to speak with the Harrell name being on these cars? I am not talking about the opportunists that illegally used the Harrell name to benefit by selling merchandise, I mean the actual cars that carried his name that he either built or raced? I just don't understand. Like Motown wrote, what if the Yenko family said that no Yenko vehicle was to have stripes put back on it unless a royalty was paid? Sounds almost ludacrist if you ask me because the cars were originally built that way. Did you have to pay a royalty to have Dicks name put on the side of your funny car?

sYc

10-28-2003, 04:59 PM

As a matter of fact, I did agree to pay a royalty to put DH on my funnycar. Valerie was very understanding and easy to work with in this regards. Did I have to? Not for sure if anyone knows, but I felt it was the right thing to do. And, I do not regret that decision. As much fun as it is to show just the car, can not compare to having Valerie and her family involved with the it. I would encourage any one who has a car once owned/driven by a well known figure to do the same.

Jeff H

10-28-2003, 05:38 PM

OK, I'll toss in my thoughts on this. I know it probably has no meaning to anyone else, but this is what I'm thinking. These race cars obviously have multiple histories to them. When someone "restores" one of these cars, how do they determine what point in history they restore it to? For example, if the Kirby car was first raced with just his name on it at the very first event it went to, then Dick Harrell teamed up with him and they added his name later in the season, shouldn't the car be restored to just Kirby's name and have no reference to Dick Harrell? Or is it being restored with Harrell's name due to the notoriety? As for the the #2 ZL1, did it have Dick Harrell's name on it when it was first raced? If so, why should there be any royalty involved in restoring the car to the way it originally was raced? And lastly, I'll use Kevin's ZLX as another example. Do you restore it to the original condition as delivered from Motion to be raced or restore it to it's most famous condition while being raced? IMO, the cars should be restored to day 1 race condition. If the owner wants to restore it to day 233 race condition when Dick Harrell was a sponsor or teammate, then yes, a royalty probably should be paid in that situation. That's my thoughts on these race cars and I know it doesn't mean much. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/JeffSucksToo.gif

whitetop

10-28-2003, 05:48 PM

Here is a short letter about C. Shelby in the August issue of Mustang Monthly. 10 years ago this letter would have gotten the writer stoned to death and the magazine burned to the ground by Ford enthusiast. No more. There is a growing fervelent backlash/hatred against Carrol Shelby because of his heavy handed tactics against his perceived use of the Shelby Cobra name by others. Some are legitimate but some are the most stupid stances that ever came down the pike.
Go to any Mustang related website with a BB like this one and you will see what I mean.

I think the majority of the people on this site see no problem if an original Harrell car is found why they could not put the Harrell name back on the car. Better yet, if an original car is found with the original paint with the name on it, why should they have to pay someone royalties to display the car? Also if a car is sold by someone back then and they do not remove their name beforehand or put it in writing that their name shall never be used again on the car don't they give up some of their rights?

I think sometimes the people who control the rights to any name/product forget that it's us little smucks out here through being fans are the ones that allow them to obtain royalties through various zillions of products etc. If there was no fans their name / image would not mean anything.

HYCHEV
The day may come when Yenko cars owners will not only have to pay a royalty but also add a new emblem next to each Yenko logo on the car... a big circle with a R in the center of it. What better way to keep track of who is in compliance or not. Don't laugh. All of us can pick out morals/trends/culture changes/laws/bans etc that are happening today we could not fathom happening 15-20 years ago.

sYc

10-28-2003, 06:35 PM

Carrol Shelby dreamed up, designed, built, marketed and sold the baddest musclecar of all time, the Cobra. Since being introduced, how many millions of dollars, just in kit cars, has been generated by this awesome car, of which he received nothing. IMO, Mr. Shelby is entitled to something.

moparts

10-28-2003, 06:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Also if a car is sold by someone back then and they do not remove their name beforehand or put it in writing that their name shall never be used again on the car don't they give up some of their rights?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that is a very interesting thought!

[ QUOTE ]
The car is still in the original paint that was run when Kirby was teamed up with Harrell with the only exception that Kirbys name on the rear quarter and a mouse on wheels and Super Rat painted over the Boemler logo. The story that I got from Kirby was he dropped the Harrell logo after Dick and him went there different ways. Later on in that same year Boemler drop there sponsorship with Kirby for reasons that he didn't want to talk about, so he painted the rat on the car.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this answers that question!

whitetop

10-28-2003, 07:00 PM

In the Ford venues recently there is new speculation someone else originally had the idea for the Cobra or it was already done by a "noname" but Shelby had the name, backing and resources to actually do the project. I believe this is the approach Factory Five Racing was trying to use to win their court case. As it may be however, history, as they say, is always written by the winners not the losers.

Belair62

10-28-2003, 07:14 PM

How many Harrell race cars are currently accounted for ?

sYc

10-28-2003, 07:25 PM

Harrell owned/raced, Harrell raced, or Harrell sponsered?

Belair62

10-28-2003, 07:36 PM

All of the above...they could all have had the name on it at one time.

sYc

10-28-2003, 07:43 PM

Harrell owned/raced-3 ('67 altered,'68 & '69 funnycars), Harrell raced-2 ('69 & '70 ZL-1s), sponsered-1 (Kirby FC). Of course Valerie may know of others.

MotownMadman

10-28-2003, 10:10 PM

Dave Libby has a post on the Harrell website about this car. It was originally painted a Plum color and wore the Courtesy chevrolet logo. Jim Kirby was the official owner but it was not only raced by Jim, but also by Dick Harrell and Charlie Therewanger. When Jim and Dick parted ways the car was returned to Jim and the next Chevrolet dealer to sponser the car was Bomeler from St Louis. While Dick was a sponser for the car during all that time he also raced it.
Motown /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

Belair62

10-29-2003, 12:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]
When someone "restores" one of these cars, how do they determine what point in history they restore it to?

[/ QUOTE ] Wherever they want to I would assume. And that would usually be the most famous point.i.e. record holder etc.Take an old Willys gasser...a couple different owners in its racing past but it was a record holder....of course if you put it back you would go with the proper lettering etc. for it's glory day in the spotlight.JMO but it sure seems like something simple to work out with the family to get that name back on a car.Especially if Mr. Harrell himself raced the darn thing.Would it become instantly much more valuable with the name on it ? Not to me.I would guess the market is extremely small on a car like this.Is someone going to earn huge dollars off of a few exibition passes of a historic dinosaur...I doubt it.Its going to take a bunch of dollars to get it safe.Its real value is in people seeing it and seeing how cool it was back then in the infancy of these mega buck sponsored funny cars that don't even look like cars anymore..And also how crazy these guys were to even get in one of those things !

Pantera

10-29-2003, 02:28 PM

I have yet to hear from a Legal standpoint about this. My thinking is that the Harrell family would have a hard time preventing a historic car to not use the name if they were not using it to make money. The only way they could have a standing is if someone started to make a NEW 2004 Camaro with his name on it. If someone bought a car with the name on the side in the past and they have the pic to prove it then they have the right to advertize it as a Ex-DH car. I am not a lawyer but look at Shelby and you can see that he is in the same boat. He can demand that anyone offering a NEW vehicle with his name on it pay but not on one that was sold with his name on it back then. Personally I think they woudl be crazy to even try to restrict any of the old cars as the more of them out there would enhance the value of any new endeavor that might come along that they could cash in on.
Now if someone was making a Clone and using his name then they should put a stop to that.

I know that it would just make me very happy to have someone even remember my Daddy and to have as much interest in him like DH would be something else. I would only want to protect his name from being abused and I think that is more what they are trying to do.

menmyfcs

11-06-2003, 04:59 AM

I have just looked on this site after being away from it for a while.
To Motown Madman, 396L35 and others who don't know jack about things you speak so knowledgeable of.
Valerie DID not ask the owner of the Kirby car or any others for money to use the DH name. If you boneheads had any balls at all you would have asked Valerie her side of the story. Read the eBay ad a few times. THE WHOLE AD. It says, ìOriginal Dick Harrell #3 car.î Under Vehicle condition it says ìAn all original DICK HARRELL 68 Funny Carî. It is not, was not and would never be a DH original car. It also says "own a piece of history"; racing history comes from wins and famous owners. The DH name is a good piece of Jim Kirby history. What major event did this car ever win? It was painted Harrell colors so he could fill in for Dick. The name Jim Kirby was not one everyone went to pay and see. As for Dick switching to a Hemi and Kirby not wanting to. I raced against Dick and Clyde Morgan who was replacing Kirby in late summer of 70.
Both cars still had a Chevrolet in them.
Valerie asked Kevin who had the eBay auction for NOTHING other than to advertise the truth.
Porterfield was a personality situation. Late 80s, he was denied the approval of Elaine and Valerie both, to use Dickís name and signature. He has since used and abused it.
Think about it, T-shirts, mugs, hats and any other thing he could profit from, including appearance money. Now that diecast cars and other things are out he wanted in on that also. Seems Valerie hasnít asked Tom Clary to take the name off his car. Tom has been a true gentleman to the Harrell family, unlike others. GO FIGURE! This also brings up another issue. Tomís car indeed is a REAL Dick Harrell car and the other does detract from the value of there being more than just a few originals. I have the Emails from Valerie and Kevin in front of me. Kevin understood and writes that he should have written it differently. Please make no mistake Kevins car is a good find and a nice one.Just not a Harrell car as advertised
This sounds like the same group that so called heard Nancy Gibb talk about another car, when in fact this same group had that wrong as well. Yep, it was Candy red and thatís all you needed to say it was a Harrell funny car. It wasnít even a funny car! This kind of talk is not fair or good for anyone. I see several names on this subject that call or Email Valerie and act buddy buddy then post crap to stir the pot. She has taken along with the grief of her dads death and losing everything to all the whores, including family and tried to salvage her fathers past for herself, her children and her grandchildren. It was said that Dick Harrell would be proud to hear his name of the loud speaker and to see his cars out there. 1st of all I knew Dick Harrell. He would not charge you people for information about your cars like Porterfield who had it all given to him. Dick would go out of his way to make building your car a dream come true. Therefore he would not be pleased to have people like Porterfield running his name.
Motown Madman quit hiding behind your keyboard and step up to the plate.
Dale Pulde aka Menmyfcs

copolocater

11-06-2003, 07:50 AM

I would suggest you remove the referance to the red funnycar and the issues that took place.You never called me to get my side.I think that sounds familiar!!!

396L35

11-06-2003, 08:38 AM

Dale, I'm so happy that you made that all clear to everyone on this site that the Kirby car is not a Harrell car???? Yes, Kevin should have worded his ad differently and we all agree on that. When Kevin and I looked at the car for the first time we asked a lot of questions, and I can remember Kirby telling us that he raced for Harrell when Dick had other races to attend. Kirby also told us that Dick used his car as a back up car when Dick's car needed to be repaired. You are also right about Val not asking for money from Kevin to use the DH name but in fact she told him to reword the ad, and he did so. Kevin asked her why, and Val said that he would have to pay her money because she owned the rights to the name. As for the royalties to the name, didn't Tom have to pay to use the Harrell name on his car??? I think he did and in fact he admited to doing so. I understand the reason asking for the money and I am glad you are protecting the DH name. But I don't understand is you wanting to take this piece of history away from future generations. Just answer a few questions for me and I will leave it alone??? If this is not a DH car or a sponsored DH car why is his name still inbeded on the quarters of this funny car?? Also why does Kevin have all these pictures of Jim and Dick together at dealership shows and races??? And finally, did the spectators that went to the track to see Jim Kirby not have to pay to see the races that day because Dick wasn't there??? I just don't understand???? It looks like all the answer that we are looking for come down to this: Yes; Kevin has a Dick Harrell sponsored funny car. Yes; Dick Harrell race Jim Kirbys car as a back up when needed. And yesssss; people did have to pay to go see the races that Jim Kirby raced at for Dick Harrell. Thank you for listening to my thoughts, Mark /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

MotownMadman

11-06-2003, 06:07 PM

Dale,
I made no statements that were rude to anyone, I was asking a question. I agree the Ebay ad should have been worded differently, but as I do not know the person who ran the ad I had no input as to what the ad said. My opinions on the legal and ethical issues of restoring an original race car to the way it was built and raced stay the same, no matter who's name is on the car, my thoughts were across the board for all cars in the hobby, not just DH cars. I dont know Porterfield or what he has or has not done so I can not comment on that. As for me Dale, I hide from nothing or no-one, the organization I belong to is world wide, and I am more then willing to step up to your plate. Email me for my address, you are more then welcome to stop by for a visit or if you prefer I can have some of my family members who are close to you stop by for a chat. This board among other things is a place for expressing opinions, which we all have, but it is not for personal attacks. I personally attacked no one, you have chose to personally attack me. This board is not the place for this type of behavior, so if you wish to continue take it to an email box so we can arrange a visit.
Motown /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

copolocater

11-06-2003, 06:53 PM

Motown Matt I think if you want to be civilized about this whole matter I have an answer for you.Excert some anxiety and help me find the 1969 camaro DH 1970 AHRA championship Funnycar body.Let me know.

Charley Lillard

11-06-2003, 08:59 PM

Can you Guys Please tone it down a Bit so I don't have the Release my Dogs...We really do want to try and keep it Civil. I think these are the type of threads that are the reason we now have Moderators..... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/Charley.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

JoeG

11-06-2003, 09:29 PM

You'd better release the dog Charlie----GO GET THEM FIDO-- tear them apart /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif------------- web page (http://www.funnypetphotos.com/cute_dog_photo.htm)

ORIGLS6

11-06-2003, 09:42 PM

OK, I've held off as long as I can waiting for someone else to use this line:

Charles In Charge /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY

11-06-2003, 10:03 PM

Thank you for the explanation Dale, well said.

Who's 'copolocater', I thought that guy took his ball and went home - again /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

MotownMadman

11-07-2003, 03:22 AM

OK Charlie,
I will behave, I dont think my attack cat would stand a chance against your mean dog BelAir. I have been bit before, my wife gets jealous over her territory.
Motown. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

menmyfcs

11-07-2003, 03:41 AM

OK, now that I seem to have gotten your attention and for sure P.O.ed a few of you. Matt you are very correct. This is not the place to air our laundry. Then again if this is where they are being soiled so it is the best place to start. Now you all can understand how it feels to be judged and talked about with out knowing what all the facts are.
If you read this subject from start to finish you would more than likely felt as Valerie and I did. By the end of what I read, it sounded as Valerie put a gun to peopleís heads for money. Not one time did Kevin ever speak up. His talking was all done on hearsay from someone else. Some of you may not have seen it this way, however, you are not looking at it from our point of view.

To start with, Valerie never asked for a penny. She did however tell Kevin if who ever bought it wanted to use the Dick Harrell name they had to sign an agreement would be necessary as more than likely the car owner would also want to produce DH merchandise. She was trying to explain this to Kevin so the new buyer(s) did not have big merchandising ideas. Some of you are stating that she wanted money for using the DH name on original cars, this is not true. Porterfield being spiteful, took the DH name off the 69 ZL1 on his own. After telling Valerie she should be paying HIM. In fact, Porterfield ran the DH name for years & Valerie never protested this. Due to his merchandising it became a legal issue.

As to license agreements, they can cost from one dollar to one million dollars. In these agreements, there are limitations of use. Moreover, if a DH car is started or run anywhere and a person gets injured, they can and do sue all parties on the car. It has been going on since the 60s when Houston Platt had an accident in the south and is still done that way today. There was a die cast car made a few years ago with Fred Gibb and Dick Harrell on it. No one ever contacted Valerie on this. Helen had her contract; Valerie had to fight for herís. How would you feel? She has never interfered with any of the Novas, Camaros or any of the true cars that were built at the Dick Harrell shop. She has been more than cordial and helpful to anyone that has called or emailed her.

Copolocater, I emailed you off line, and as of last month I am still tracking where your car came from. I used your car as a reference. FYI, you may not remember, but 2 years ago that same car was offered to Valerie as her fatherís old car for about $150,000.00. When we told the guy it wasnít close, the seller still offered it as maybe an old DH car on many different sites. I guess this should be known as buyers beware. As far as Matt releasing any anxiety by finding the 69 car, from the past experience he could sell you any 69 funny car and you would believe it to be. There is a nostalgia funny car class coming about this next year at the Good Guys races. It could show up there.
This brings me to the Kirby car. For all of you that do not know how race operations work I will explain it as best I can. Jim Kirby would race this car painted and looking like Dickís car. Clyde Morgan and Larry Christopherson did the same thing. Lets say Kirby had 10 bookings all year and Harrell had 50. Kirby running for Harrell could get more bookings. What was here for Dick Harrell? I am just going to make up numbers, but I bet they would be close. Kirby could only get $700.00 a race where with Dickís name he would get $1000.00 and Dick would get 10 to 20%. If Dick drove the car it could get another $200 to $300. In most cases, the ads would read Dick Harrellís Camaro. I did this with a few owners myself and almost with Dick. A few years back when teams still match raced, John Force would get less money with Tony going to a race than if he was there. I hope this helps on the sponsor ideas. Seeing as one of you know Kevin and has posted he was selling the car to buy another and his wife wanted him to. Someone is not telling the truth. He told Val a different story.
I hope all will take notice when you are buying a racecar and the owner is telling you a story check it out with others involved with the story. As we get older we see our past sometimes as being different than it may have been. There may be a lot of pictures and papers. I am sure Bojie can tell you we have more than the average Harrell collector and he only saw a bit of them.
Dave Libby posted on the www.dickharrell.com (http://www.dickharrell.com) site some of the past of the Kirby car (as he remembers it), which is very close to the way two others explained it also.
Matt, I have to come back to Lansing I think next month. Are you near there? Maybe we can do lunch. If youíre near Pontiac we could go to Foxes. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif What I said was uncalled for and I hope you can now see why.
Sincerely,
Dale Pulde aka Menmyfcs

MotownMadman

11-07-2003, 07:06 AM

Dale,
A much more civilized and informative post. As years may pass I am certain you still have the skills to do a 200+ MPH pass in a nitro rocket, as I still have the Neandrethal skills to be called out for a brawl. I prefer these days to excersize my mind vs my body, the latter hurts to much the following day, as well as the fact I have my name carved in one to many jail cells already. You did the best thing you could do with your last post, you beat me up with your mind as I finished your post with learning something. Touche'.

I live about forty minutes from Lansing and would be more then happy to meet you for lunch, if you have time I can take you to have a look at a old Candies and Hughes funny car. Possibly a few people around Detroit you would like to meet if you havent already.

It seems as if there are a lot of politics surrounding the vintage funny car hobby, I can certainly understand as I was slammed into a similar situation about a year back when I located a lost Team Shelby Trans Am car. Everyone has a different sandbox and not everyone is invited to play.

I am not much on politics but I am determined to protect the history of this hobby as a whole across the board. I am still of the opinion that if a car was introduced to the public eye a certain way then it deserves to be restored to original condition no matter who owned it. If a name appears on a car, at some point permission was given to wear that name. That is not to say it allows a vintage car owner to start marketing other items using whatever name may be on the side of the car they currently have in there possession, with a vintage race car the actual "owner" will always be whoever owned or raced the car when it was in the spotlight. Discussions like this sometimes end up hurting the car, politics should be kept from public discussion as the private lives of our current politicians are a good example. Maybe every Ebay auction or advertisment for a vintage car should not be picked apart in public, but left to the parties it concerns.

Email me if you want to meet for lunch.
Motown /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

68TopStock

11-07-2003, 03:52 PM

Dale,

Your the man! That's what I call an informative post. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif

MotownMadman

11-07-2003, 10:40 PM

Copoloco,
I spoke with somone on the phone today who knows the whereabouts of a 69 FC Camaro body, he has no knowledge as to the true origins of the body as it is in primer, was the one you are looking for ever damaged and repaired on the right front corner?
Motown /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

copolocater

11-07-2003, 11:18 PM

MATT CALL ME IMEDIATELY I EMAILED MY #!!!!!!

matt murphy

11-09-2003, 12:49 AM

Dale,

Can you email me so I can ask you some Funny Car questions. I seem to be having trouble emailing you an email with your email address here. Is it [email protected] ?? Mine is [email protected]

Matt Murphy

menmyfcs

11-09-2003, 11:19 PM

Sorry so late getting back. Went to the races fro then yesterday had Bikes to finish for the love ride. Didnt want Motown madmans other family over here because of unfinished bikes.
BTW Matt. Looks like after Thanksgiving I should be there,
Do you rmrber the ads. On Sibley at Dix. BE THERE!!. That was the last track Dick Harrell raced at before Canada.
Do you know Poncho Rendon. Ispent a fair amount of time at Ramchargers. Connies and Al Berglers, Really good to see Connies cars running well. I also used to run the War Eagle cars from a guys place on Pontiac Lake.

Harry Kalwei was the person that went to Las Vegas to pick up Dicks REAL 69 Funny car for Valerie. That 69 Body that is near you is still a good find.At least for a mold as the Nostalgia Funny cars are going to run 5 Good Guys events this year and more tracks want them. Later Dale /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

bowtie3168

04-22-2005, 11:43 PM

Hey guys!
I just did a funny car search and found this thread.
I have some old funny car pics, including Harry Kalwei that I will try and get scanned.
Looks like rain this weekend so I'll have some spare time.

Belair62

04-23-2005, 01:04 AM

You need a Lobotomy to look through that thread...from what I gather it's not really a Harrell car....according to the experts...I'm gonna go chug a bottle of Merlot and come back later because maybe it became a real one since then. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

ORIGLS6

04-23-2005, 01:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
according to the experts...I'm gonna go chug a bottle of Merlot and come back later because maybe it became a real one since then. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Try a 1969 vintage Merlot. Maybe that's what they're drinking. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

jfkheat

04-24-2005, 05:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Try a 1969 vintage Merlot. Maybe that's what they're drinking. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Since this is an automotive site, shouldn't that be a NOS 1969 Merlot. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
James

396L35

04-26-2005, 12:42 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You need a Lobotomy to look through that thread...from what I gather it's not really a Harrell car....according to the experts...I'm gonna go chug a bottle of Merlot and come back later because maybe it became a real one since then. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[/ QUOTE ] Ok let me begin by saying that Dale is right about this car... Dick Harrell never owned the Kirby car but he sure as hell had his name on the side and raced the hell out of it when he came to St. Louis or any other Midwest races.. As for the car being real, well its not everyday that you can buy a vintage funnycar from the original owner with all the documentation (scrap book that Kirby's wife put together of all the history of the car). As for the experts out there getting ready for their Merlot, have fun, sit back and relax because I know you have alot on your minds... I was present the day that the car was bought from Kirby and I was also there the day Matt came to pick up the car... I would have to say that this car is very cool original piece of race history and Dale would have to agree on this considering he has seen the car since the time this was first posted, the car has never been wrecked or burned and has survived this whole time with its original frame with the original Don Hardy body tag still attached... Dick's car was number #1 and Jim's car was number #3... Hopefully the car will show up at the reunion this year and everyone can decide for themselves if its real or not??? Good luck Matt and I hope to see you there.. Mark

JChlupsa

04-26-2005, 01:20 AM

Hey Mark, I agree it would be neat to see the Kirby car at SCR8 and get it along side Toms 68 Harrell F/C. I can see a Pic of them together at the starting line at Gateway as a Retro Cover shot for Hot Rod or Chevy Hi Performance with Bob McClurg shooting the pics. Would make for a neat poster as well.

396L35

04-26-2005, 04:56 AM

It would be even cooler to have Jim behind the wheel of his old car with Dale in Dick's place... Hell Dave can set up both cars to run just like the old days... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif Mark

JChlupsa

04-26-2005, 05:40 AM

Dale couldnt fill Dick's shoe's no matter how hard he tried.
I do agree with Jim getting back behind the wheel of his though.

Belair62

04-26-2005, 07:02 AM

Matt has a very cool car there..no matter what is on the side of it...hey maybe we can get JE to make food/beer runs for us at SCR8...

Kim_Howie

05-05-2005, 12:07 AM

Are you listening to this!!!!! Jim Elgan http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif By the way last time I knew post don't talk!

Charley Lillard

05-05-2005, 03:05 AM

Maybe he spilled Merlot on PeeWee.

JChlupsa

05-05-2005, 07:25 AM

Lets see, Today I have received plenty of Emails from folks where they all say I got mentioned in a Thread on another site for my post on this thread. Seems that dale thinks he CAN FILL Dick Harrells shoes. Hate to tell you Dale but you need to crawl out of the cespool and wipe off your own shoes. YOU sir could not then or today be a Dick Harrell, He was a Class Act, you are just an act. I am really surprized that the others in the DH camp think you could even come close to DH. As for JE, a broom pusher from day one that was problem taking care of business in the bathroom when the real men like Dave Libby were building the cars that are today so sought after. JE if you have a problem with that my email is [email protected] . Dave Libby all I can say is I wish I was there when the cars were built. You did some great work and after talking with you at SCR7 I could tell you were proud of them when you built them as you are today. Thanks for bending my ear for just about 2 hours that day about Steve Sandlins 68 Chevelle and the other cars you built.

(by the way Yes I do know most of you asked for your membership to be deletd here but also know you all stop in to read as ghosts just the same. Thats fine by us and since I know you do stop in and I dont have a need to visit your site Ill post here thank you
Have a nice day!!)