What constitutes a clone?

[427TJ]

Hi guys, I'm a new member and this is my FIRST post so here goes.

I decided to register here after reading the discussion on the eBay '68 "COPO" being sold by "dana man." I was especially impressed with the level of scholarship displayed by forum members and with Charlie's mature handling of the whole fiasco.


My first question:


If I put a "Stinger" hood on my '67 RS/SS396 and a set of 15x6 and 7 Cragar S/S mags with 70-series redline radials, will I be accused of cloning a B-M Camaro? (Yes, I flipped when I first learned about B-M cars waay back in the early 1980s and if I hit the lottery I'd be after a real one.) What I want to do is build-up my '67 396 (4N) car into a strong street machine with a '60s look via the Cragars and redlines. No, I would not "badge" the car with eBay-bought Motion stickers but I have had a pair of 427 Turbo Jet crossflags ('66 Impala style) for 20 years and I'd love to put them in place of the original 396 flags. I have also read that Joel Rosen (God bless him) registered his paint scheme designs as his property so I'd leave the Stinger scoop in body color.

Opinions? Comments?


1967 Camaro RS/SS 396 (L35,Th-400, 12-bolt 3:07, round bar)
2000 Subaru Legacy wagon (5-speed, AWD, power windows)
1989 Schwinn Diamondback mountain bike (New tires in 1996)

[Belair62]

Do it...it's your car.....I had a black 67 Nickey clone a couple years back....just call it what it really is.That hood looks nice on a 67...FVN makes a nice one.

[427TJ]

I agree--just do it. Still, I want to ask the question and take an informal poll on "dealer clones" vs. "modified" cars.

I was looking at the VFN Fiberglass version, I've read that VFN is using the original mold made by the Motion crew. That may or may not be true but their hood looks SO nice.

[whitetop]

[ QUOTE ]
I have also read that Joel Rosen (God bless him) registered his paint scheme designs as his property so I'd leave the Stinger scoop in body color.


[/ QUOTE ]

He may have registered them but I really don't think anyone, including Joel, could stop someone from painting their car using this paint scheme. If you like it paint it the way you want.
Also in terms of using that hood probably 10-15 companies made that hood over the years and probably sold thousands of them. If you don't badge the car as a Motion car it will not be a clone. It will just be a nice Day 2 car. After all, the speed parts Joel used on his cars were just picked out of the speed equipment catalogs of the day.
Joel may have used a VFN hood at one time but I bet he mostly used A&A or Fastglas (now legendary)
Dave

[Pantera]

I think the words "copy, fake, Clone, replica, tribute, look-a-like" are all about the same but some just sound better than others. A clone is your own version of a car that was made by a famous aftermarket car co. If you want to make a "Clone" of it for your own use, then you have the right to do so. If your paint is the same then I can not see where that would be a problem as long as you acknowledge that it is a "copy" and not a "real" ?X?X? car.

I think that you could get into problems if you then sold it or went into business selling a car that looks like yours and that was a copy of say a BM car. As long as it is just for your own pleasure that is fine but don't sell it with out changing the paint so that it is not a actual copy and of course you are not foolish enough to try to advertize it as a actual car. What you do for your own use is your business in my opinion.

And of course the guys on here would expose you in a heartbeat. So like everyone that comes on this forum that plays fair and honest you will find yourself welcome and you will find they are a great bunch of guys. Liars and cheats or god forbid a "Dam Fool" is gonna get slammed and they deserve it IMHO.

BTW:I like the way you approached the members of the forum on the subject so from my house = "WELCOME"..! and we want pic's.... ASAP.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[AutoInsane]

[ QUOTE ]
As long as it is just for your own pleasure that is fine but don't sell it with out changing the paint so that it is not a actual copy and of course you are not foolish enough to try to advertize it as a actual car.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pantera, I would think you could sell the car eventually with the paint scheme and not be breaking any laws. It would be different if someone were going into business to sell B-M clone cars. I totally agree it would be differnt if you were trying to misrepresent the car as being an original.

Bill O'Brien

[427TJ]

Yeah, I agree that cloning is not a crime as long as you're up front about it. No one likes a bull__itter. Again, it's not my intent to clone my '67 into a B-M car, just use some of the styling tips such as the Stinger hood to set it off from the crowd. I'd be tempted to put a set of mid-year Corvette sidepipes on it too!

I have collected many vintage magazines from the '60s, especially 'CARS' and 'Speed and Supercar' which contain articles on B-M cars. I look at the photos and I'm amazed that there weren't more B-M cars sold. If we only knew then what we know today, eh?

As for photos of my car, it's still stock, unrestored and unmolested, for the most part. I redid the interior in the summer of '02 and put F70 redlines on it for the looks. I was going to keep it stock but I can't resist the urge to have another "street machine" like my first '67 Camaro 25 years ago. Once it's in your blood...

[Belair62]

Go for it...thought I would show you this old one of mine...wish I had it back...it was a blast..

[427TJ]

WOW! I almost fainted at the sight of that gorgeous '67. 'Perfect' is all I can say.

[427TJ]

Are those real "Nickey" center caps on the Cragars? I'm still gasping for air after looking at that photo...

[camarojoe]

Where is that car now Belair? Is it still a clone? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Very nice! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[Belair62]

Yeah it's about 2 blocks from my house and I see it all the time....it's a young guy who lives in the neigborhood......he won't sell it back ! M22,L88 intake and carb,tach drive,alum heads....oops...forgot...its a 6cyl body so it will always be a clone !

[budnate]

Well it is the right year! please post up some pics of it, nice paint work as well, looks very nice!

Bud.

[Belair62]

gosh fellas!

[Belair62]

one more

[Belair62]

Last one...I'm depressed now..

[budnate]

He(( I would be too, why would you let that one go?, very nicely done Belair! did you bring it together from 6cly status???

Bud.

[Belair62]

No I bought it almost the way it sat but I put the hood on and a couple other things...it ran hard but the bias ply tires kept it in check....just don't have the room...

[budnate]

The more I look at the pic's the more I want it!!!!!!!!!!!

Bud.

[Stuart Adams]

WOW, that car is fantastic, I love it!!! I would be depressed also.

[camarojoe]

Nice to see a car worthy of the term "clone." Very nice car Belair, you dummy. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[Stuart Adams]

I can't stop looking at that car. Clone or whatever, it don't get a whole lot better than that. Just think how good Charley and John would look in that.

[hvychev]

Ok Belair......I don't want to be another one that makes you feel bad but that IS a cool car! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[55chevy]

A guy would have to be preeety duuumb to sell a car like that.. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[LVCamaro]

How about this one for a cool Yenko clone? Built and owned by one of our "distinguished" syc forum board members.

[LVCamaro]

Pretty car!

[LVCamaro]

Pretty nice under the hood too.

[Belair62]

Best part about them is you can drive them down a gravel road if you were in a pinch !!!

[Charley Lillard]

I think I saw that at Carlisle, nice car.

[budnate]

LV, its a Dandy but not the right year.

Bud.

[Belair62]

Hey I think I know who's car that 69 is....that one is probably as good as any of the ones that came out of Yenko's front door....the detail and correctness is incredible....and it probably even comes with a whisk broom,and a ZZ TOP 8 track in the glove.But I hear he is kind of a pus-arm so he should have an automatic. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[scuncio]

Damn Bob, you get all those cars out of California? Leave a few for me ok?? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Belair62]

No Tony...only the plates are from Cal on that one !! But they look good on the car

[hvychev]

The dude that owns that clone Yenko just added these wheels to the car. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[camarojoe]

I like it better already! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Remind me not to e-mail you guys any more pictures in the future... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/Charley.gif

[Belair62]

What wheels are they CJ ? Can't tell from the pic....beautiful car...!!

[JoeC]

I think that car belongs to YenkoMan http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[camarojoe]

They are vintage "straight spoke" Torq Thrusts, complete with NOS Atlas centercaps. The pics LV posted are the newer versions..."Old School" mags are much cooler IMO...but you already knew that! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[68l30]

Looks HOT Joe! I'm all for the "Old School"... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif


Steve

[Eddie M.]

Belair62.... Clone or not that sure is a nice lookin car http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[427TJ]

The "new" wheels on the orange Yenko are vintage 1960s American Torque Thrusts with the 'peaked' straight spokes. The currently-available Torque Thrust D wheels have a curved spoke as seen in the first three photos of the car. The D wheels are for use with disc brakes but I suppose the older '60s wheels fit disc cars too. I had a set of the old Americans restored (14x6) and ran them on my '67 RS/SS 396 and they looked great. Every serious car guy should have a set of Torque Thrusts in his garage. Cragar S/S's too.

[camarojoe]

Actually, the wheels in the first pic are the newer version of the torq thrust D, with the bigger center lug area originally redesigned to clear larger late model (80's and newer) wheel bearings. The "old school" wheels actually aren't American's, they are vintage A/P torq thrust copies, (note the deeply recessed lug holes) and they do feature the highly peaked, straight spokes that you mentioned.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[427TJ]

Okay, got it. You're right, the new D's are for clearance but I incorrectly assumed it was beacuse of disc brakes. The old Americans, originals or copies, look so much better than the new D's. Yeah, it's hard to tell unless you know what the differences are but the old peaked, straight spokes just scream "1960s."

[jg95z28]

The more I see these pics, the more it makes me want to throw a Stinger hood on my RS and "dress it up" as an SS clone. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

http://home.comcast.net/~blackwoodgarcia/69camfan/camarorsgold67ext4.jpg

Of course it'd need a big block too. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif

[Belair62]

Go for it !

[budnate]

yea why not, there are more RS/SS cars on the road today than in '67,lol.

Bud.

[427TJ]

Or you could lay a set of black Z/28 stripes on it, lower it about 2 inches, and make a canyon-carver out of it.

[Mr. T]

Jeff,

I happen to like your 67 RS just the way it is. It has a real nice clean and smooth look about it! JMO

[427TJ]

Agreed of course, but it still needs a little bit of a height adjustment. Yes, that is a nice '67.

[jg95z28]

[ QUOTE ]
Agreed of course, but it still needs a little bit of a height adjustment. Yes, that is a nice '67.

[/ QUOTE ]Yeah it does ride a bit high for even my tastes. Probably the rear multi-leaf conversion the previous owner did. I actually like the old school look to it and the rims are starting to grow on me. (However I do have a full set of 14x6 "DG" ralleys just sitting in my garage. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif )

The thing is, this car is so damn clean, I may just leave it alone and find another car to "carve-up" after my stepson and I finish the blue 67 coupe.

Oh well... dreaming up cars is easy... and cheaper on the wallet. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Belair62]

Redlines will really wake it up !!!

[gemleeus]

kinda the way i look at the WHOLE situation of our car hobbie today is like this: picture two lovely ladies at a party. they both have large beautiful breasts. everyone is talking and looking at them, admiring them etc. now they are both lovely ladies, but one is natural and the other is implants. these girls knowing they are being watched and admired, how do you think the lady with the implants feels? be honest with yourselves and figure the same thing with your clone vehicle. i would rather have an original lower priced car than a clone that looks like a high dollar ride. be honest and i think we understand the difference. its all about the originality of something, not just what a looker it is. of course i'm a true beleiver in "to each his own thing" but if i had a clone in a parking lot and the real thing pulled up beside me i can be honest and tell you all i would feel a little embrassed inside. just my opinion.

[Zedder]

I need to introduce you to some of the girls I knew that had implants http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[Mr. T]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[427TJ]

Well, when both of those ladies are 80 and gravity has done its work on them the one with the implants will still have a fine, out-standing chest. Hmmm, maybe that's not so good. (Thanks for the visual, right? I think we need a 'barf' gremlin right about here.)

How does the lady with the implants feel? Well let me feel her and I'll tell ya. BADUMP-BUMP!

But seriously folks. One thing to ponder is what will archeologists think in a thousand years when they open an old coffin and find two blobs of clear gel on top of old bones. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[427TJ]

Yeah, I know, what in THE h_ll does this have to do with cars?

[hvychev]

huh????? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[427TJ]

I was responding to "gemleeus." Sorry---back to car stuff!

[AutoInsane]

I'll take the chic with the implants!!!!!!

[427TJ]

Just go easy on'em or they'll spring a leak and she'll die.


And that would be http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif


Or it might be http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[WILMASBOYL78]

Can you please post pictures of the two lovely ladies so we can make an informed decision. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[Belair62]

They are saline now...not silicone ! Safe to break I think...

[427TJ]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

"HEY HONEY--one of the guys on the yenko.net forum sez they're saline...so how 'bout it...please...?"

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif