COPO Camaro ID

[Born30YrsLate]

Does anybody have a picture of the break line valve that is located on the frame under the driver's seat for COPO Camaros. I've never gotten a good look at one...these came on SS396 cars as well right? - did these come on SS350 cars as well?
Any information is greatly appreciated....thanks

[JChlupsa]

http://www.camaros.org/TopicsofResearch.shtml

[Mr70]

Jeff beat me.
The picture as well.
http://www.camaros.org/brake-valve-67CSM.jpg

[Born30YrsLate]

Thanks for the quick info guys!...from reading the link it seems that small block cars with A/C got this valve as well...is there anybody out there who has a ss350 car without AC that can take a peak under their car to see if they have this valve as well?...
Thanks again... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[JChlupsa]

I have a 68 RS 327 car that has one.

[JoeG]

WOW Rick---you draw pretty fast-------------- http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[68l30]

My 68 L-30(327) with A/C does NOT have this bracket...non-power drum brakes...


Steve

[Stingerhood]

My 69 column shift, AM radio, Factory A/C car does have this brake valve ! (not a SS car but it is a small block car) http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

[Born30YrsLate]

The reason I ask is I'm trying to educate myself on COPO Camaros and I haven't spent much time researching them, instead I've spent the last 4 years of my life concentrating on BM cars...to make a long story short, a friend of mine recently contacted me about a car he had found (he's helping me in finding a car) that may be a COPO Camaro and I need help in getting details and input. The VIN is not on the list of cars Ed Cunneen has on his site, but I have given Ed all the information I can on the car. The car is not located near me so my friend sent 3 digital pics and had computer troubles so he will be sending me some "regular" pics through the mail. Some information on the car that I have gotten. The car is an X11D80 car, build date of 06A, Lemans Blue paint and standard black interior, single fuel line and a 4 speed car. He looked at the rear axle tube with a magnafying glass and said it looked to have a BE rear end but it was hard to see under the car and there are welds close to it as well. I will put up the pics that I got from him and will welcome ALL input and also what else to look for on the car. He said that the radiator is gone, no motor or trans, and the heater box is not there. The first pic is of the trim tag.

[Born30YrsLate]

Brake valve I inquired about...not a good pic

[Born30YrsLate]

shot of brake booster and part of firewall...

[ssl78]

Here is a better picture of the valve

[ssl78]

I have a Oct 68 built 1969 ss 350 4 Speed car no air that has that valve

[Bruce]

Looks like the throttle arm has the cowl induction solenoid bracket on it.

[Born30YrsLate]

I was told that the little hole that you see under the brake booster where the gas pedal would be is the hole for the wiring for the cowl hood set up. My friend that found the car said it also had a single fuel line.

[69LM1]

Both of the 69 LM1's (small block 350's) I own have the valve. Neither has AC.

Rich

[Born30YrsLate]

Is there any difference in the wiring, such as routing, between a small block and a big block car?

[x44d80]

Buy it or let me. "x11d80" theres not alot of those and most are COPO cars. I think KURTS would know the figures but there probably arent alot on non-COPO cars with that code.

[Unreal]

Any late-built SS350 with Style Trim and spoiler would be X11D80. (Norwood only, of course)

[Unreal]

Although not absolute proof, check the length of the clutch Z-bar. 9" is small block, or I6. 9-1/2" is big block.

Reminants of cowl induction, possible BE rear, Z-bar, X11D80, etc, etc combine to build a case for COPO.

[x44d80]

Unreal, interesting on the "late" statement for X11 as being ss350. What date is considered "late" for the Camaro to put it into that catagory ? Also, wasn't there a UAW strike around the 06 cars? This car has a single fuel line so doesn't that help it's case for COPO? Thanks, Brent

[Jeff Murphy]

Hold up was for the BE rears. My car is an 06A X11D80 that was shipped in the last week of June. BE is stamped on 16th. Build order is NOR351185. Notice I don't ask for anybody's SSN in exchange for the info... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[ANDY M]

I've been asking about my car for awhile, and have gotten some very useful advice and information. It pay's to be polite.
Here's a shot of my trim tag for all to see, and let the guy with the SS427 go sulk in the corner. Go call a clone a clone and still get compliments for having a nice car.
Andy

[resto4u]

GarnetM20, I am looking at a possible copo. It's body number is close to yours. 06A X11D80 NOR345421 Roger

[COPO]

Andy, that sure looks like a possible COPO based on the body #. Have you had E.C. look at it?

[Unreal]

X codes started late November/ early December, 1968. D80 was added to the tag in April 69, I think. So any SS350 built after that date with style trim (including RS) ordered with a spoiler, would be X11D80. That does not mean yours was an SS, lots of clues lead to possible COPO. The more clues you have, the better the likelihood. Single 3/8" fuel line is another on your list. Sounding more and more likely!!!

[x44d80]

Unreal, I just went to the CRG site to confirm this question. An SS350 can be X11 or X55, the X11 has the brite drip moulding, quarter moulding etc...So correct me if I'm wrong, slap on discs brakes, SS hood, 12bolt rear, instant SS350 car? Not trying to light a fire here, it's just that you see alot of SS350 X11 cars on EBAY and my thought is unless they have some other document, who knows if they really are an SS350? I know that a SS350 is nowhere in the league of the BigBlock or Z28 cars but it still could be a cloned car. Thanks Brent

[396L35]

[ QUOTE ]
X codes started late November/ early December, 1968. D80 was added to the tag in April 69,

[/ QUOTE ] The X code was started the 2nd week of Dec 68. I know this because my L35 camaro was built on the first week of Dec. 68 with no X code on the trim tag. I had to crawl all over the car to make sure it was a true BB car and not just a vin restamped motor, the trans matches as well. Thanks, Mark

[Kurt S]

Already replied directly to Fred. This one's a hard one to prove w/o docs.


[ QUOTE ]
GarnetM20, I am looking at a possible copo. It's body number is close to yours. 06A X11D80 NOR345421 Roger

[/ QUOTE ]
This one is a little more doubtful. It's a BB street machine, SB heater, drum brakes, vinyl top is gone.
What's the axle code?

[resto4u]

Thanks kurt! I saw the car at a show, and will probably not see again. If i remember right, now has BB heater core and disc brakes. I was not sure what cars got the D80 designation. You guys have a great database. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif Roger

[supercomp 8.90]

hey fred any more news on the possible copo????? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Unreal]

X11 is kind of a catch-all code. It is the only code that included the RPO muscle cars and "regular" cars. (COPOs are the exception. They are known to be X11, X44 or X66.) So if you got Style Trim in a six cyl or a non-Z/28 small block, it was X11. Since style trim was part of the RS package, any non- Z/28, non B/B Ralley Sport, was also X11.

[Born30YrsLate]

I am in the process of purchasing the car...I had him measure the z-bracket and to tell me what it's length was...he said it measured between 9 3/8 and 9 1/2 inches - just under 9 1/2 inches...I guess this doesn't hurt my case...thanks for the suggestion on measuring the z-bracket...does anybody else have suggestions.
Thanks again everyone!

[Belair62]

I hope it is a COPO and I hope you get it !!! Good luck...that would be a cool find...and you better get it ready for SCR8 !!!

[supercomp 8.90]

hey fred you could check for:dual exhaust bracket on drivers side in front of the shock on the frame and if the firewall has holes in it for cowl ind, rear multi leafs,front sway bar dia.,big block motor mounts,140 speedo also could be 120 if not ordered with the sportscar package. also see if there are any xt wheels??? good luck!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Born30YrsLate]

Dave I am told that the car has the dual exhaust hanger and the big block frame mounts (they look as weathered as the rest of the car)...I am waiting for pics on these things and I am waiting to get pics on the numbers on the frame mounts...the car has the 120 speedo...I believe that care has the hole in the fire wall for the cowl hood - check previous posted pics by me in this thread I (I think it shows it). Keep the suggestions coming!...thanks to all! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif...still diggin' for more info!

Bob...the car needs work! - and hopefully the car is proven to be a copo...so it can be at scr8...I can't think of any thing better!!!...other than a BM car...http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif

[Mark_C]

Worst case this car is an L48/M20 SS. The car has a Muncie speedometer cable routing, power front disc brakes, dual exhaust mounting bracket, 12 bolt rear axle. Single fuel line if original would indicate something different though as an L48 should have 2 fuel lines.

Didn't see the area of the firewall where the ZL2 hood flapper wiring came thru the firewall (its next to and about 1" above the wiring bulkhead connectors on the firewall). It does appear to have the cowl induction bracket on the throttle arm. The master cylinder has been replaced, but the rest of it looks correct for a front discs, rear drum combination.

Does the owner have the rest of the clutch linkage? Big block clutch adjustor rod is different than a small block one. One is a single threaded rod that has a threaded pivot that sits in the hole in the Z rod arm, the other is a 2 peice setup where one piece threads inside the other, and one end has a 90 degree bend on it to fit into the hole in the Z rod arm.

Does he have the transmission crossmember? If so it should have an opening with 3 circular shaped corners and one 45 degree chamfered corner.

How about the shifter? The transmission mount bracket (the part that actually bolts to the transmission) on a BB is different than on a small block?

[Born30YrsLate]

I got a couple of pics...cars is not yet at my place - at a frinds house - I have the title.
Pic 1

[Born30YrsLate]

I got a couple of pics...cars is not yet at my place - at a friends house - I have the title.
Pic 1 http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Born30YrsLate]

Pic #2...the car had been sitting for approx. 20yrs in a garage until being found/removed - what ever you want to call it. I am in process of trying to track down past owners and gather as much info about the car as possible. I haven't seen the car in person yet - the pics were sent to me...the rest of the pics showed the "good stuff" - like rust spots in trunk and floor.
I'll get more/better pics up as soon as possible...

[Belair62]

Did someone look at the axle tube for the rear diff code yet Fred ??

[Stefano]

Fred,
Is the trans tunnel original to the car and has it had any repairs. The original tunnel may provide some clues as well.

[Born30YrsLate]

Bob - the axle tube hasn't been examined closely yet. I don't have garage space up here for it (will have it here in spring) and when I get it that's the first thing I'll do is look at it myself and if need be, have it looked at by others as well.

Stefano - as far as i know the trans tunnel is original to the car and can't say if it has had repairs(never asked and have only seen car from pictures). What clues may the trans tunnel provide?...

[Belair62]

I know the garage situation all to well Fred....good luck.

[Born30YrsLate]

At the moment I am contemplating on selling the house I'm in - it has a 1 stall garage and there is a house that just went up for sale today with 8-car heated garage...the answer is obvious if I hadn't bought two houses and moved twice in the past 8 months...I think I'll be moving by myself if I choose to move (helpers are pooped out) - the last time I moved, my soda machine almost fell over and the hit the ground...good thing my dad was in between the machine and the ground, otherwise it might have scratched to the paint - I mean...good thing he's OK........

[hvychev]

Fred what is the story on the car?? Is it a COPO?

[Born30YrsLate]

Frank - the jury is still out...I will be video taping and taking pictures of every part of the car for documentation purposes before there is any work done on the car...I'm also waiting for the previous owner to get into touch with me and hopefully be able to contact previous owners/find paper work on the car...I'm playing the patience game right now...what ever the car turns out to be it will stay a big block car and it will be done up in Day 2 style...

[DarrenX33]

Did the jury ever return???

[Born30YrsLate]

Car is scheduled to show up this weekend...I will be taking pics and sending them to Ed C.
Also, not making much headway currently on talking with previous owners - last owner (in central Ill) doesn't have a phone so I'm trying to get a time to visit, but there's no way to see if he'll be home when I get there...still also waiting on results back from the Illinois title search. Also am trying to get an NICB report.
Nothing too exciting....yet http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

[Leonard1]

I hate to disappoint you, but I did a title search in Illinois last year, and was told that they don't have any records over 6 years old. Anyone else had better luck?

[DarrenX33]

[ QUOTE ]
Car is scheduled to show up this weekend

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow Fred. That is one heck of a long transaction.

Honestly I thought title searches in Illinois and other states was a thing of the past. I was lucky to do mine in 1991. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Born30YrsLate]

Well - it all came down to storage room...I ain't got none...I got a 1 car garage at my house so my other '69 Camaro sits in there and I park the Lumina outside so a friend of mine offer to keep it at his place until I got more room...talked my dad into opening up some room in his shed....since I'm not paying storage or transportation costs I'm working around my friends schedule...

[DarrenX33]

Fair enough. How bout in the meantime you tell us about this 69 Camaro you have in the garage right now???

[JQ]

Fred, I noticed the body number on my L78 car is 5,646 after your car. Does anyone know how many cars the Norwood plant was pushing out in a day or week? John Q. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Lynn]

Go to this page on the Camaro Research Group site.

http://www.camaros.org/geninfo.shtml#HowMany

click on question #7 and scroll down to the End of month VIN report chart. As you can see, the numbers varied from month to month, but at any given time you can tell about how close another VIN is to yours chronologically.

Lynn

[JQ]

Thanks for the tip... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Born30YrsLate]

Trailer troubles this weekend...no delivery...trying to work it out for next weekend... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

However - I did get to meet Helen Gibb - HI HELEN - this weekend at the Classic Chevy show held in Manitowoc so the weekend wasn't an entire loss - the show even had a couple Supercars - Mike Miller (?) from Wisconsin Rapids, I believe, was there with some Supercars ('70 Deuce, '69 Chevelle and 2002 ZL1). Also showed some southerns how we have fun in 'sconsin! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Born30YrsLate]

Car has arrived - will post info soon...

[supercomp 8.90]

hey thats great!!! cant wait to see some more pics!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[DarrenX33]

Bueller??

http://www.80s.com/saveferris/images/class/teacher1.jpg

[Mr. T]

Yeah, hi

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/mistermister1/office_space.jpg

[Born30YrsLate]

Hold on...Hold on...I've been distracted the last couple days...info comin' up tomorrow...

[Belair62]

Hope it's got the right stuff Fred...

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Mr. Hand, you d...

Sorry, wrong movie - another favorite!

"Sawhing batta"

[Mr70]

http://sportsmed.starwave.com/i/magazine/new/ferris_cubs.jpg

[DarrenX33]

http://www.portlandphoenix.com/archive/movies/01/09/07/image/film_FastTimes.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Nice! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[DarrenX33]

I should find a still from the best scene in that movie. You know which one... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[Mr. T]

[ QUOTE ]
I should find a still from the best scene in that movie. You know which one... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/mistermister1/jack2.jpg

[Born30YrsLate]

OK...Ok...
There is a list of what's on/not on the car.

On the car
Big Block frame mounts
Front power disc breaks
Big Block clutch z-bar
Single 3/8” fuel line
4-speed car – correct speedo cable routing and hole in trans tunnel (been modified), and Big Block 4-speed crossmember (Pontiac x-members look similar don't they?)
Big Block power steering pump
Original Cowl Hood car – correct holes in firewall, correct throttle lever and the paint under the hood is the original factory color so possibly the original hood (same with rear spoiler).
Dual exhaust hanger plate on driver side rear frame rail
Brake proportioning valve under driver seat on frame
Car has a 12-bolt rear in it with 4.88 gears but is not the original rear (appears to be coded BT0708 - car is 06A)


Not in car
No radiator
No heater core, but in trunk with other parts

Other notes – Power Steering appears to be the only option

[ANDY M]

Fred, if nothing else it could be an L78 car.
Andy

[supercomp 8.90]

hey fred did you check the front fenders for holes in front of the side marker lights??? the 06a may also be a good sign, you should start checking known copo vins to see if your cars vin may fall in the same batch area.

[Jeff H]

Don't forget that 06A covers most of the month of June, not just the first week.

[Kurt S]

Date code on the heater core is ????

[Born30YrsLate]

I don't see any holes in the fenders...so they were either replaced or welded in and in my amature opinion I think the car got new fenders at one point.

Kurt...the heater box has 69F on it.

[Stefano]

What is the casting date of the rear? Also, this may be difficult to see because there may have been vinyl Glue sprayed over it, but on the passenger side rear seat frame back reinforcement which divides the trunk space from the rear seat, may have an X code in the upper left hand corner as you face the rear ,on the vertical surface, just below the horizontal package tray sheet metal.