BE Axel...supposedly for sale on eBay

[rpoz11]

eBay # 4500505896 http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[CopoCrunkus]

Clickable (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4500505896&fromMakeTra ck=true)

[oboym]

I have it on ebay right now 69 camaro 12 bolt # BE 0426G1 but sorry the GM4s carrier and 410 gears all long gone now it has a GM3s carrier with spacer and GM456 gears
if you have any ? call me anytime 402-671-4898 kelly

PS; the car its from maybe out there somewhere tryed to track it douwn but its a dead end.

[Charley Lillard]

I gotta tell ya that those are about the worst pics I have seen in awhile. A digital camera with a Macro setting would pay for itself with this auction. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[oboym]

the pics did not look that bad tell i put them on ebay i will have more pics monday

[Mr70]

He said softly after he placed a bid. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[All American Racer]

Any early guesses on what it fetches???$$$ 4K

[oboym]

pic 1

[oboym]

pic 2

[bilede]

Is this much of a spread between the casting date and build date normal on BE's? I also thought that the first casting character was a letter then two characters for the day of month then single year character. Seems to me this is either a C=march or G=july casting in '68.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[resto4u]

That has to be a c-cast date. You can't have a cast date after the axle code date. Roger

[bilede]

Both C or G of '68 would be previous to 04 of '69.

[oboym]

Yes it looks more like a ( C or G 218 )casting Thanks for all the help. Wish i could find the car it came from.

[COPO]

Seems like the casting date could perhaps be an error? Seems like it should be C219 which would be Mar. 21, 1969 and would make sense with an April 26, 1969 assembly date. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[oboym]

maybe some copo guys can answer that ?
can some of the copo owners post there casting date code

[rpoz11]

Can you tell us if the correct posi unit, plates, springs, etc are still in tact or if anything has been replaced with newer replacement parts? Thanx http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[COPO]

The ad says: [ QUOTE ]
not the original 4S carrier it now has a gm 3S carrier and spacer and gm 456 gears

[/ QUOTE ]

[resto4u]

How could it be cast in 68 and then sit at GM for a year til it is assembled and put in a car. I would also like to see other casting dates from original cars to compare. Maybe you can go back to where you go it, and go back on its history. I know it's a long shot! Also can anyone answer why the BE always looks like a 2yr. old kid stamped it. I have seen others that way also. Not gang stamped? Roger

[ZL1dreamer]

My rear cast date is B 2 9
The date stamp on the axle tube is BE0402G1

[rpoz11]

As for the time frame differentiation, remember there was the initail order to run the parts; I can imagine the parts ready for the COPO order call, being that this was accepted internally before the run of the orders to be filled...so to have the surplus in stock ready to fill the order upon arrival internally! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Yenko Fan]

Just to let everyone know, the differential was brought to our shop to be looked at. Upon close inspection by myself and the former shop owner we can definitely say it is not a restamp and the month of casting is C

[oboym]

I want to thank all the guys at "Flying A restoration" for there help thanks Mik McCarty, Jerry Janing, & Frank Payne
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

www.FlyingARestoration.com (http://www.FlyingARestoration.com)

[Jeff H]

I wonder if it was a mistake in the casting date year. It just seems odd for the rear housing to be dated a year earlier. Maybe Kurt S has more information on cars in that time frame that might have rears with a 68 casting date instead of 69.

[Yenko Fan]

After receiving more info today regarding the stamping,it is definitely not a restamped BI housing. With learning of additional characteristics of a restamped BL it is possibly questionable. Although the picture of the BE in McNeishs' book also shows the same weaker outer upper strike. As the Eaton stamp is not visible it just poses one more question. May just be one of those GM mysteries or? I wish I could be of more help to anyone wishing to purchase this, but as they say, when in doubt...

[Casey Marks]

Not to hijaak the thread ..... but,

Y'all that think that an Eaton posi in a "COPO" rear has a different spring plate and springs from a "regular" four or three series posi are mis-informed. It's the same guys .... believe me. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif

[oboym]

here is a link for more info

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=copous&Number=80755&Forum= ,,,,,,,,f25,,,,,,,,&Words=be%20posi&Searchpage=8&L imit=25&Main=80401&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name= &daterange=0&newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldert ype=&bodyprev=#Post80755

[Casey Marks]

These are original BE spring plates, no ??

http://www.fototime.com/E6AD185753EDB75/standard.jpg

[Casey Marks]

OK, which is which ?????

http://www.fototime.com/5B0EA50DF4F0083/standard.jpg http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[Casey Marks]

To "BE" or not to "BE" ..... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

http://www.fototime.com/E46E84ACA66DE5A/standard.jpg

[Casey Marks]

PS - - -

I'm not tryin' to be a ding-dong about this, but I work for Eaton. I've got access to dern near everything that we hold near-n-dear. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[Belair62]

Well Casey why don't you get them to make some parts for us then ???

[Jeff H]

[ QUOTE ]
OK, which is which ?????

http://www.fototime.com/5B0EA50DF4F0083/standard.jpg http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

The one on the right looks beefier(if that's a real word).

[Belair62]

Saying "beefier" in the same post as "Frank Payne" is actually kind of fitting !!! Frank, you sausage....you're a big ....... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[fpcopo]

What is wrong with being man sized...you lady? Hey! Hand me dat sangwich. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/BelairSucks.gif

[hvychev]

Im wit ya Frankie! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Belair62]

I knew that would wake you...ya big j.. ...

[Kurt S]

The casting year is probably is a 9 if the axle is original. Real hard to tell cast 6's, 8's, and 9's apart, esp on axles.......

[camarojoe]

I agree its sometimes hard to tell 6's from 8's from 9's on castings, but it sure looks like an 8 and not a 9 to me. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
http://www.yenko.net/attachments/104872-MVC-006F.JPG

[Casey Marks]

Maybe they used different casting numerals for COPO rear ends. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Chevy454]

Hey Case...here's some rear info per COPO.com..any chance you could do some digging on your end?

<font color="blue">SPECIAL EATON POSI CASE "234"

The 1969 COPO Camaros, Chevelles and the 1970 Copo Novas had a special heavy duty Eaton posi case, which differed
significantly from the 4-series production case.

The parts are listed below:

3916234 Complete assembly
3918834 Spring Plate - heat treated
3957939 Spring 75lb. each (natural color)
3880140 Spider Gear (larger size)
3918831 Side (Axle) gear (16 teeth)
</font>

[Casey Marks]

Yep ! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

What would be REALLY great is if someone could post some pics of each of the above components. My contention is that some (if not all) of that stuff is available still thru Eaton. They don't widely market or publicize the component pieces-parts ..... but they got 'em.

And ...... I'd prefer to be correct on at least "some" of my assumptions so that you guys can get the parts you need. I'd love to help out. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[Jeff Murphy]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[69L72RS]

The pictured plates would be for a GM "trans-am" unit with 400# or larger springs. They should measure 0.1562" thick and be 2.310"+/-0.06" wide at the formed side flanges.
The COPO plates are 0.0897" thick and measure
2.100" +/- 0.06" wide at the formed side flanges.
They also have round c-clip holes not oval.

Casey,
All of the inspection docs that I have seen for the #234
COPO units begin around early 1967. They are from the Marshal division records and the signing engineers initials were D.G. / R.W. / F.R. / &amp; R.J.S. if you know any of them.
I was told the GM made the 16 tooth axle gears in house.

I checked with Eaton in 2001 about replacement parts and was informed tooling was not avaiable and the production volume
was not worth looking at. The 16 tooth axle gears are were cut on a now obsolete Klingenberg machine while todays gear teeth are cut on a Gleason machine.

There are 2 members that I know of that have "private" stashes of NOS parts for the #234 units. I have not had much luck getting them to let go of any of it. Maybe they will decide speak up on what they have and know. Hint, hint guys.

Hope this helps. More info to follow.

Eric

[69L72RS]

I have a series of pictures of the parts your are asking about, but still don't have editing software to shrink them to a postable size. If someone else can shrink them and post them , I will email them.
I will try to post the data base info that I have from the road this weekend. I have an archive of about 15 "BE" rears that I have worked on over the past 18 years. It has casting date/assembly date/and posi date correlation info.
I tried to have this done sooner but have been too busy at work.
Hope this info will clear up some of the previous questions from other post too.

Eric

[Casey Marks]

GREAT info Eric ! Thanks.

The more data the better. We'll see what we can come up with. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

The part that REALLY sux is that Eaton is in the process of moving ALL of the differential business out of Marshall, MI. and Hastings, NE. It's all going to Mexico. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif Once it goes to Mexico, the ability to tap into 35+ years of posi "stuff" decreases significantly.

[Casey Marks]

Also,

Any Eaton part number info on the above would be a triple-bonus. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[69L72RS]

Can you shrink and post the pics if I email them to you?

[Casey Marks]

Yep !

[email protected]

[69L72RS]

I'll send them at lunch. Thanks for the help Casey.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif
Eric

[69L72RS]

I sent you a few pics from work.
I will send you a few more tonight before I leave.
Thanks again Casey.

Also here are a few notes on the looking at a #234 posi:
1) springs - natural color / lefthand wind / 0.120" wire diameter / 75#
rating
2) spring plates - narrower and longer than standard plates / round hole for c-clip
* note: early standard posi units also had round holes for c-clips
but are too wide for copo unit *
3) axle gears - 16 teeth / tooth root goes all the way to clutch surface / gear OD has pointed tooth tips / the unit usually has 7 teeth visible
* Don't get cofused by GM 2nd design 17 tooth axle gears. They
appear very similar when inside the posi. *

4) I have found (4) older rebuilt COPO posi units with stock 10-18 &amp; 10-17 tooth spiders sets in them. There will be 3 cup washers behind the smaller pinion gears to get the proper mesh. The case is correct but the guts are wrong.

5) the COPO posi case is cast # EDB 30174 ( same as standard unit) and has different internal machined dimensions to fit the larger gears. All COPO units that I have seen were small window cases.

6) The posi unit assembly date can be stamped on the ring gear flange or on the balancing boss. It will be a letter+number+letter stamp.
I will post more info later.

Should I start a new post with the identification info and date data base or continue it in this one? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
Thanks again,

Eric

[Casey Marks]

I think that we should start a fresh thread with all of our collected data, pictures, etc. This will help eliminate any confusion, and hopefully be a reference for others going forward. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[Chevy454]

Good idea, Case... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Number=105373&amp;page=0&amp;view=collap sed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=&amp;fpart=&amp;vc=#Post105373

[rpoz11]

Let me try this... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[rpoz11]

Additional pic image... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[rpoz11]

This is a pic of the original axle housing part # from my 69 #'s 396 PaceCar(sorry for the fuzzy pic)...These #'s here are 3894880NF. The #'s on my BE have a different part #...IF , and I do say that with a very big IF, that axel in the auction has the correct casted part #, It to me would be a safe bet that it is correct http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif Anyone wish to comment on this?? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Chevy454]

If ya could, post those pics in the link above...we've hijacked this thread long enough! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[rpoz11]

I believe I started this thread http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Chevy454]

DOH! By golly, you're right! We got so off track that we're back where we started! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[rpoz11]

I think I may have possibly typed in the incorrect number I have...I think this is correctly to be : 3894860NF on my production 12 Bolt in my PaceCar.....I think Im needing glasses now! Damn Im getting olde! Sorry Guys!!!!!!!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

[COPO]

[ QUOTE ]
Any early guesses on what it fetches???$$$ 4K

[/ QUOTE ]

Winning bid: US $1,930.01

[All American Racer]

Anybody from here win it?

[COPO]

Heartbeat Jim from MI

[rpoz11]

So, I wonder if Mr. S. will be sharing with us if that truly was a real 'BE' ??? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[KNAPPY]

Is there anyone in the Dallas-Fort Worth area that can authenticate the rear end?

[COPO]

I thought it had sold on ebay and went to MI? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif A reputable shop looked at the rear and authenticated it. Re-read the entire post for the info.

[KNAPPY]

I ended up with the rear end. It seemed like there was still some question about the authenticity. Would be glad to get it checked out locally.

[oboym]

Eaton stamp is not visible and the casting date looks like a 8 to me.