ZL 1 #51

[NovaMob03]

For those that may not have heard, the BJ auction of Reggies ZL 1 went sideways. It was reported that someone else in Ga actually has the original block & the high bidder, Ron Pratt backed out.
Previously, I mentioned that I bought the original block directly from Lamar. Lamar also recieved 4 other ZL 1 blocks from Vince Piggens to use for racing. So, now it appears that I bought one of those extra blocks from Lamar even though he told me that it was the original. The vin # stamping looked like a factory stamp to me.
Reggie actually came in to town yesterday, met with Lamar & saw what appears to be the original (damaged)block. Don't really know where this will go from here, but I'll gladly buy back the one in Reggie's car for the $5800 I sold it for http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Stefano]

Sounds like Lamar has told quite a few interesting stories about his cars over the years.

[Kim_Howie]

Popcorn with butter Please!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Charley Lillard]

If you sold it as the orig block to 51 and it was then sold to Reggie as the orig block to 51 I would be more worried about Reggie wanting all his money back including all the money he spent on repairing it. Your recourse would be to go after Lamar for damages. In fact if Reggie loses the sale because someone sold him a fraudulent block I would be worried about even more damages.

[quick-bowtie]

This is getting so out of hand.. You cant sell anything anymore with out a waver of liabilty. From now on its cheap cars for me I dont trust any high end cars anymore its just not worth the headache.

[deuce-less]

perhaps in the end the liability would lie with the person who 'knowingly' misrepresented an item jmo

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I think to get damages for fraud, you have to prove 'intent to deceive'. That's tough to do.

[Chevy454]

I agree, M...but "waivers" or whatever ain't the problem, what happened to people's integrity? This isn't just isolated to our hobby, but everyone any more?? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Charley Lillard]

So if someone has stamped and sold two blocks as the orig one for # 51 and still has a third one with the same stampings I would think that would fall into the "intent to decieve" category.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I agree with you there Rob, but it's just tough to prove 'intent'... What we need is a well publicized, landmark legal case to set the precedent and strike some fear into these bums.

[Mr70]

In no way am I siding with anyone on here,or elsewhere but I thought it has been stated & established a few times in the past,that the true dollar value of a 1969 ZL-1 Camaro did not matter at all if it DID or DIDN'T have it's original born with engine.
As long as it was in the VIN List with clean history and deemed authentic as one of the real 1969 ZL-1 Camaros,it's value was as golden as the few others remaining.
The answer given repeatedly was because so few were originally made,only 69,this car was the exception to the normal car buyers guideline,and THESE buyers were willing to pay the highest amount just to have one,with or without it's original born with engine...period.
Did this change? Does not having it's original born with engine effect it's value that much today?

[SuperNovaSS]

The original engine always adds to the value. It is the awe factor that makes these cars so desireable and the fact that the car still has it original engine adds to that awe. I imagine that is why Reggie paid up to have the orginal fixed; I know I would have. Is this Lamar character the same guy that recently gave the shaft to GRB?


Jason

[NovaMob03]

No worries ya'll. Things seem to be cool between Reggie & Lamar. The block Reggie has is apparently one of the 4 blocks Lamar said he ran in the #51 car-still significant IMO. Also, the repair bill on the block was only $5200. I was told the block that was shown to Reggie (as the original) could be repaired.
I think there's another party involved now saying HE has the original block.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I wouldn't want 'one of the four', I would want the original one with the original vin on it! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Salvatore]

Absolutely without question! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[markjohnson]

It's really a shame to see Lamar's name and reputation being smeared on this site. The man is a living legend that helped make these cars as famous and desireable as they currently are. Apparently Vince Piggins thought pretty highly of this "character" also and that's some pretty good company to be in. Lamar is a long time family friend and honorable individual that doesn't deserve to have his name cast in a negative light. If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.

[sYc]

Mark, Seems the negative light is being cast by Lamar himself, not others.


Jude, am I reading this right, Lamar stamped the VIN on each block that he ran in the car, which would make for at least 5 blocks (the original plus 4 others) with that VIN? WOW.

[NovaMob03]

Tom, it crossed my mind that all 5 of them might have been factory stamped. I had had bought another ZL1 block from Lamar at the same time & the stampings looked totally different.
I feel certain that when Reggie & Lamar met they discussed repairing the block so Reggie might buy it. Reggie's happy knowing that he has 1 of 2 'factory sponsored' ZL 1's.
It's the 3rd party's involvement that has upset the apple cart. I'm assuming he might have one of the 4 extra blocks, & just like me, thought he had purchased the original one. This will play out in time.
BTW I like Lamar & in no way was this thread meant to tarnish his image. He's always treated me fairly.
It could be that the buyer learned of the sheet metal replacement on the car & has used the 'non orig block' issue to get out of the deal. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif

[Charley Lillard]

Jude....When you bought your block from Lamar did he tell you it was the orig block out of # 51 ? Did you sell it to Charlie Biele as the orig block to # 51 ?
Now we are blaming the third party ? Someone apparently sold him what he thought was the orig. block for # 51.
Somethin stinks in Mudville.

[sYc]

Jude, there is one thing that just keeps jumping out at me, something you you stated in your original post. <font color="red">

So, now it appears that I bought one of those extra blocks from Lamar even though he told me that it was the original. </font>

Also, I do not blame the buyer for wanting out of the deal. Who wouldn't after all of this?

[NovaMob03]

Yes, Lamar told me that it was the original block. I told Charlie that Lamar told me it was the original block. Charlie told Reggie(and put on the bill of sale) 'to the best of his knowledge it's the original block'.
The 3rd party, that's apparently involved, called Barrett Jackson through his attorney while the auction was going on. At least that's what Reggie told me.....

[COPO]

I can say that until Monday of this week, I was convinced that the one and only original block to #51 resided in Reggie's car and came from Lamar's shop 6 years ago. I am also certain that Jude felt he sold to me the one and only original block to #51 which I in turn sold to Reggie after he did not want to sell me the car 6 years ago. (Restored ZL-1's cars were going for $80K-$110K then) I felt the car and block should be reunited.

When the block was sold to Reggie, it was sold in "as-is" condition as the original block to #51 "to the best of my knowledge" which I put in writing, and I stand by that statement today. Both Jude and I would gladly repurchase the block for what either of us sold it for as it remains very valuable.

I don't blame anyone but Lamar, because he is the only one that knew the true story. Since the block apparently was actually used in the car, perhaps he felt it was OK to claim it was the original one?? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Charley Lillard]

Markjonnson....Maybe you can ask Lamar to elaborate on how there are now three orig blocks to his old car and they all came from Lamar ?

[COPO]

One thing that I left out of my post was the block that Jude got from Lamar for #51 and was ultimately reunited with the car, had what looked to me, and many others, correct stampings on both the front pad and the alternate VIN location near the oil filter. There was no evidence of restamping or machining to the block in these areas.

[Belair62]

Lamar does some pretty amazing stuff with W engines...