Just curious, and I have no gun in this fight, but do you charge for authenticating original documents? I have the original docs (got them from a fastidious first owner) and my paperwork is approaching 50 years old and appears as new. I still think there are car owners (like me) who's paperwork might look like new because of the type of person that kept the docs in a safe. I went to an office supply warehouse and made exact color copies of my stuff and laminated the copies. I made a binder with the laminated items and that is what I use at shows, events, etc.
I hate to sound cynical, but unless there is an established chain of ownership, I question supporting paperwork on these old cars. Back in the '80s I saw a fellow spitting out new POP on a GM machine with GM tape and GM cards. I thought the whole thing stunk, but I witnessed in person.
Another question along the lines of the book signing and baseball signing: if you had a POP made for your car from original GM supplies on an original machine used by GM representatives, is that a "REAL" POP?

Simply put NO!!!

I like the way you think Dave. :scholar:

Documents
 

To date I have never charged anyone to help authenticate documents. That is not my business but I would say at this point I have gotten pretty good at it. If I cannot tell then I tell them I am not sure also.
There are many more methods to determine reproduction than most would know and that is also who items such as ECL codes will never be released.......

Paul

I agree Steve, so we think alike. At that time I had a '69 Pace Car (small block, stick) and we all were joking about how nobody would ever care about docs and such for a small block Pace Car. I could have had one of the "new" POP for free; I declined the offer.

Paul,

Joined this forum 17 years ago and watching this thread is painful. Some people go ape Sh*t when original documents surface on a particular car that has good reported provenance and then accordingly either hype the car or bash it depending on who owns it and where the politics fall and there is the risk in having an opinion because nobody wants to be fooled.

Let the market decide. If you change how you make these I would bet you are pretty much out of business pronto, and this would not be an issue if the titans of the hobby did not place a premium on "documentation" but they do- and as a result some guys want reproduction stuff for the cool factor.

Eventually the cheater is gonna cheat, and if the buyer cannot tell the difference that falls into "buyer beware" on the sale.

A couple of questions . . .

Would someone be willing to offer an opinion as to how much of an increase in value documentation adds to a A#1 car?

If a car is known to be what it claims like a Yenko Camaro but has no documentation, would having documentation raise it's value?

On a Yenko I do not believe it raises it's value a whole lot for the simple reason that the VIN's for the most part are known. The paperwork adds a lot of cool factor but the car is already known to be real.

In the case of say an LS6 Chevelle (ok, ok but it's what I know) I believe it can add as much as 20% or more depending on coupe of convertible. In the case of convertibles and especially Canadian documented cars it can add a WHOLE lot more as recently seen. These cars are just too easy (relatively speaking) to fake so paperwork pays a large part in it's value and therefore authenticity. I have many clients who will not even consider a non documented LS6 which is just one of the reasons why I am so passionate about 'real' paperwork, stamps and other identifying information on these cars.

Just to add Paul, I do not believe anyone is specifically putting you into a pool of thieves or dishonest people. That is based on all the positive comments you have received from many people including myself. You won't find too many of the other people doing similar work getting those compliments. I, like you have defend myself against all the unscrupulous restoration shops and thieves out there as I too sometimes feel like I am put in the same category as the others which is why I cannot bend the rules and have to practice what I preach.

Rick, Sometimes even a good guy can be put in the "bad pool" by mistaken opinions or a bad comment that gets repeated. I know that has happened to you too. Friendships are lost for no good reason really and suddenly you no longer get replies to PMs or emails. All you can do is keep trying to do the right thing. Like it or not, no matter what you do, you have no control over the opinion people have of you - it's strictly up to them. I've always been a believer that the truth is the most important thing - no matter where it comes from or where it leads. Sometimes it leads to bruises that never heal.

Verne

Verne, that sure can happen.
Honesty is and always has been the best policy. I live by the Golden Rule and know well and good that not all people do.
Rick, I have heard nothing but positive opinions on you and your work so your work ethics and reputation do proceed you.
Paul, the product and services you provide to the hobby are welcomed by many, and unfortunately used by others to deceive. I'd say keep up the good work and let the chips fall where they may (and I'd like to hear/read more about the watermark).