Re: 71 SS Motion
 

So why doesn't the owner get the docs from Motion? If he believes that it is a real B/M car,that $3000 investment will net him 15,000, turning a $1000 dollar car into a $15,000 plus car. It appears that he may be skeptical as are the rest of us.

Re: 71 SS Motion
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 61 vert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So why doesn't the owner get the docs from Motion? If he believes that it is a real B/M car, that $3000 investment will net him 15,000...</div></div>

Again and as I mentioned previously, Joel's services aren't like PHS, Marti or Canada Vintage as the fee sometimes goes to the wind without any definite word of a yes or no Motion connection..

Even if a car in question is a real Motion built car, if Joel doesn't have the info on file or someone can't provide original invoices for him to confirm as genuine, how could he ever state the Motion connection as fact?!

[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif[/img]
~ Pete

Re: 71 SS Motion
 

Andy, where's that avatar?

Re: 71 SS Motion
 

Because as mentioned,There are no real records of these cars. Basically the only way to document one is with the original paperwork and the &quot;sworn testimony&quot; of previous owners.

Since DMV records dont go back very far,you wont be able to go to the DMV and get ownship history. None of the Moion paperwork has the car's VIN numbers on them,so there will never be any way to really document most Motion cars.

Basically what you are telling Joel is I have a red 71 Camaro with a Motion hood,does this look like a car you built? He is going to respond that he has no clue and take your $2000. If the car were almost completly unmolested and the original owner had a piece of paperwork with the VIN number AND his name on it,then Joel would tell you that he sold THAT guy a Motion car,and to the best of his knowlage the car you are looking at looks to be the car he sold him. If THAT guy happened to have owned 2 different Camaros at that time,then it could be that guys other car,but Joel would not be able to tell you what car it is since he has no paperwork with VIN numbers.

At this stage of the game,there is little chance of ever documenting that car.

On the up side,it is still worth a few grand. It looks pretty solid,and I am seeing plain jane base model junk with no titles that are rusted so bad they are breaking in half,still fetching $2000 or more. Heck,the right 12 bolt 2nd gen housing alone is worth that. It nis still a real SS 350 car,and it isnt that rusty or banged up.

Re: 71 SS Motion
 

<span style="font-weight: bold"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">None of the Motion paperwork has the car's VIN numbers on them, so there will never be any way to really document most Motion cars.</div></div></span>

Sorry Rich, but disagree with you. I have a Motion Performance invoice from 1969 that lists the car's full VIN, owner's name, year, model, and color of the car.

Re: 71 SS Motion
 

i would echo charlie's comments.

Re: 71 SS Motion
 

I would imagine all of the Baldwin Motion cars have/had dealer/GM invoice with VIN and the associated work documented by Joel,(how much of those docs still exist or are accessible is not for me to guess). It's the shop orders and later customer conversions that may be more difficult to document. In regards to the above mentioned Camaro, the seller was not able to identify any tell tale signs of MoTioN mods to the vehicle, has no documentation and told me he now doubts it is a real BM car.

Re: 71 SS Motion
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: x Baldwin Motion</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Andy, where's that avatar? </div></div>

What avatar would you like to see?

Re: 71 SS Motion
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 61 vert</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: x Baldwin Motion</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Andy, where's that avatar? </div></div>

What avatar would you like to see? </div></div>

woops. The OTHER Andy, PeteLeatherSac. He's preoccupied.

Re: 71 SS Motion
 

Its still for sale. The owner wants $12,900. He needs to be a bit more realistic