Fred Gibb Paper work

[Kim_Howie]

I see the thread was close before I could state what I know.
Because I was there.



1-13-90 was on a sunday. I remember the day very well, it was the day I met Fred & Helen Gibb. I stopped at Fred & Helen's house, Helen invited me in and we talked around 2 hours.
The reason I stopped was because I thought I had found a gibb nova. Fred tolded me he no longer had the VIN# to the Nova's he gave them to BP.
William I noticed you said "A certian individual wisley saw a business opportunity" I think you should have stated BP & the other guy were partners in chasing these cars down. Maybe one got screwed. I won't go it to that.
You stated BP is not a profiteer, intersting. I sold BP a Gibb nova for 2,000.00 because I quote "I don't have one and you own two" Bill told me he wanted to keep and restore the car. Two months later Ray Morrison calls me and tells me there is a Gibb nova in Hemming Motor news for sale. Want guess who's phone # is in Hemmings ---------BP. Price was 16,000.00 14,000.00 profit, no profiteering here. I then buy my 70 Gibb Race car from Bill on 4-16-94. Bill had the car 18 months before selling it to me.
I wonder how he found that car ??? Do you think it might be from Fred Gibbs paperwork ? Do you see a pattern here.
When BP bought the car 6 miles away from my father-in-laws house it was a running driving race car 468 motor ,nice paint ran around 6.90s in the 1/8 mile. When I bought the car there was NO motor,trans,seats,interior,wheels,headers, crossmember,driveshaft & back & front windsheild were gone! Wow. I think he paid around 5,000.00 for the car ,I gave 10,000.00 for the striped shell. No profiteering here.
Now the 1969 ZL-1 #1 car,that car was FOUND by the Gibb paper work period. The car was owned by Jim Cooper from Des Moines, Ia. Foot note I have lived most of my 61 years 60 miles away from Des Moines. The car was raced at Eddyville Raceway which I have been going to this track 46 years. The strip is 14 miles from my house. I watched that car race there sereral times.
Sure wished I had Fred's paper work back then.
Bill buys The #1 ZL-1 with I quote "A boot full 100.00 bills ,sounds like a lot huh. 3200.00 was the price I always heard was paid for the car & how much did he sell it for?? 1,000,000+ is what I have heard. Again NO profiteering here. Give me a break.

[sYc]

Wish I had a buck for every car that was soon flipped that was bought using the line (or one similar) &quot;...I have always wanted one of those, sell it to me and I will give it a good hom...&quot; [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif[/img]

Several in out hobby have done quite well doing this.

[William]

Mr. Howie. As I stated earlier I was there in the beginning. You are focusing on one person for some reason. The chronology and numbers you state are inaccurate.

Once again, several people have made incredible profits flipping these cars. I happen to be privy to some of it. To cite one small example, as previously mentioned, anyone could have purchased #55 from the Super Chevy ad in the late ‘80s for $65,000. A few short years later the car was re-sold for nearly four times that amount. The folks that bought it from the ad may have washed it a few times. They didn’t rebuild it from the ground up [twice], haul it around the country and get it featured in magazines. They simply owned it for a few years and were the beneficiaries of a rapidly growing interest in ZL-1 Camaros. And guess what? #55 has been resold several times for many times more. How much did any of those people contribute to the hobby?

BP owned #3 for over 20 years and left plenty of money on the table when he sold it. It has been resold a few times since for far more. He owned #1 for 18 years; I don’t know what it sold for but whatever, no one forced anyone to buy it. Does that sound like a flipper to you? Length of ownership, not profit, separates the flippers from the true enthusiast. By the way just about everyone has flipped a car or two in order to finance a project, myself included. Several ZL-1s have been under long-term ownership and when they eventually do sell, they should send BP a thank-you card.

No one has done more to elevate the visibility of the ZL-1 Camaro and Fred Gibb Chevrolet than BP. He’s not done; the Kirby/Harrell ’68 Camaro Funny Car will be appearing at several shows this summer including the LaHarpe Show on August 4th. The engine is running 95% nitromethane. It makes these shows worth attending. He has certainly earned whatever has come his way.

[iluv69s]

I was thrilled to pay BP's fee for the &quot;original paperwork and signed letter from Fred&quot; for my ZL-1. Seemed like a deal compared to the price others charge for nothing more than a letter, especially considering the value of the respective cars.
I think the ZL-1 paperwork is worth way more than I paid.

I would gladly pay the same for the original paperwork to one of my other cars in a minute..and they are not ZL-1's....

[Glenn Powell]

Mr. William: &quot;THERE IN THE BEGINNING&quot; Where were you in the
beginning? Show me! Don't run your mouth talking about it, that's the easy way.
There is a picture running around out there of two men standing
by a 69 Camaro on a trailer on a cold cold day forty plus years ago. All of these years I thought those men were Fred and my boss Dick. It sure is depressing to find out now that those two men standing by that 69 ZL-1 were Bill and William. Some of us do not share your opinions.
Glenn Powell

[67 Nova Boy]

Some pictures from the net...

Dave
67 Nova Boy

[Xplantdad]

Glenn...it must have been cool working around those two guys [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/cool.gif[/img]

It would have been neat to meet them.... [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img]

[sYc]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Xplantdad</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Glenn...it must have been cool working around those two guys [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/cool.gif[/img]

It would have been neat to meet them.... [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img] </div></div>


No doubt... [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

[Kim_Howie]

William I am confused explain to how I am CHRONOLOGY wrong
and how and what NUMBERS are wrong.

I noticed you stated I quote BP &quot; left plenty of money on the table&quot; when BP sold # 3. Correct me if I am wrong, he sold the car for 250,00 and at that time the avg. ZL-1 was around 150,000.00. I about crapped that price it brought that much.
I thought Mr. L. was nuts , I guess he wasn't.

[William]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Glenn Powell</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Mr. William: &quot;THERE IN THE BEGINNING&quot; Where were you in the beginning? Show me! Don't run your mouth talking about it, that's the easy way.
</div></div>

The '69 ZL-1 Camaro was not marketed by Chevrolet like the rest of their models. The cars were secret deals between Vince Piggins and a handful of special dealers. It was barely marketed by Fred Gibb; a few tiny ads in some of the pulp car mags back in the day. Few people knew about the cars; most of those who did couldn’t afford one. Gibb could not sell them and likely could not pay GMAC for them. Chevy had to take 37 of them back and force them on other performance dealerships. They could not sell them either, several were stolen. Dealers swapped out the engines to get rid of them. They never really dominated drag racing; Bill Jenkins ’69 PRO Camaro wasn’t one of the production run and ran a 430” Reynolds Can-Am block for much of the season. Early ZL-1 cylinder blocks and heads had structural weaknesses that led to problems in racing. The ’69 ZL-1 Camaro was largely a failure and was soon forgotten by the few people who knew about it.

Perhaps you didn’t see the other thread. As I stated had BP not bought #3 in 1981 and started digging for info, the story of the ZL-1 Camaro could have been lost forever. Vince Piggins notebooks would have probably gone into the trash when he retired. BP would not have contacted Fred Gibb and got his juices flowing. Fred may have eventually tossed the paperwork because there would have been no reason to keep any of it. Most of the cars would be unknown-just like ’69 ZL-1 Corvettes.

“In the beginning” is defined as August 1981 Super Chevy magazine; all 69 VINs were published. I was on the ground floor of the research with BP and Mr. C, who relentlessly chased the cars and rescued many. I had sources and also chased them. When I located one of them I asked BP for assistance. We spoke regularly, swapped info and helped each other. When BP completed the #1 restoration he thanked us by placing our names on the car. He repeated the gesture when Car Craft featured #1 in the Dec ’89 issue and again in John Hoopers’ 1969 Camaro Reference book. He mentioned our business in the excellent February ’95 Chevy Hi-Performance feature of a ZL-1 dyno test. #1 &amp; #3 have been featured numerous times in top automotive publications starting with Hot Rod March ’83 “Endangered Species: Stalking the Wild ZL-1 Camaro.” Automobile Quarterly recently did a ZL-1 feature and ran a large photo of BP launching #1 on the strip.

Sorry, I don’t have anything to “show” you. I have never owned one. All I did was experience the ZL-1 renaissance unfolding and develop from a forgotten part of Chevrolet history to where it is today, a muscle car legend. All I can do is “run my mouth” about who did what and virtually all of the credit goes to BP.

For the record Vince Piggins and Fred Gibb will always be rightly known as the progenitors of the ZL-1 Camaro. But in my opinion without BP doing what he did there would be not be a 2012 ZL1 Camaro.

Nothing you can say or do will change my opinion because as I stated, I was there in the beginning.