Go Back   The Supercar Registry > General Discussion > Lounge

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-04-2009, 09:04 AM
cammer427 cammer427 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 97
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Notes on the Quarter Million Quarter Mile

Ok, I really need some clarification on this topic.

Tony DeFeo (magazine editor) published a story in Cars magazine in the mid-to-late '80s (I heard it may have been a 1986 issue..) about a 'legendary' street race he coined the "Quarter Million Quarter Mile" which occurred in the late '60s. I first heard of the race by coming across a typed-up version of the magazine article on a website.

DeFeo knew an ex-street racer and speed shop owner named "Bobby" who originally told him about the race. The story published in Cars basically quotes what Bobby told DeFeo.

Go to: http://www.ronaldlyles.com/services to read the 'typed' up copy of the story. The two participants in the race, according to Bobby, were the "Mutt Brothers" (Ronald Lyles would most likely have been driving) and "Super John" McFadden.

At first I thought it was the coolest story I had ever heard, but then after some research I realised there were some inconsistencies. I'm wondering if Bobby in DeFeo's old article may have had a simple case of a lapse of memory when recalling those almost 20 year old (at the time) details. Or maybe DeFeo himself (since I doubt he was sitting there writing all that Bobby said down on a notepad) messed up on some of the details in his own story.

Inconsistency #1: The Year of the Race

In the story, Bobby says the race occurred in 1968. He mentions the following: "You see, back in the late '60s there was kind of a war going on... Those guys from Jersey [would] come over and kick our asses, they'd take our money and make us look bad on our own land... The Mutt Brothers [from Brooklyn] were good, though... And it didn't take long before we started makin' the Jersey boys look bad. Yeah, it was the Mutt Brothers and Super John... Between the Mutt Brothers and Super John, we pretty much turned the Jersey dudes away. So here it comes, after a few years of jerkin' around with these [New Jersey] guys, it comes down to the Mutt Brothers and Super John. There had to be a king and it came down to one run between the two cars... The stakes were high. Now remember, we're talkin' 1968 bucks here. It was $125,000 a side, a quarter million buck purse."

The problem with this is that I came across this photo on Ronald Lyles' (one of the Mutt Bros)homepage: http://ronaldlyles.com/yahoo_site_ad...124516_std.jpg
It's the cover of the July 2002 S&K Speed Shop catalog which has an article on the '68 Hemi Dart used in the race (S&K sold their '68 Hemi Dart to the Mutt Bros before the race) and states that the car was "purchased back in the spring of '68" and that S&K "raced it all over the eastern U.S. between 1968 and 1970... The car was sold in 1970 to a Brooklyn street racer who primered the car and allegedly won $35,000 with it in the first month." In summary, S&K makes "Bobby's" 1968 year impossible, stating the car was under S&K ownership from '68 right up until 1970 until it was presumably sold to the Mutt Bros (Eugene Coard mentions on the RonaldLyles.com website that he was the one who approached Bryan Higgins, owner of S&K at the time, and asked to buy the car). So, according to the information provided by this S&K article, this clearly puts the earliest possible year of the big race at 1970. Regardless, "Bobby" in DeFeo's article recalled the race years later, which means he may have been mistaken about certain facts (i.e: the year), which could explain the contradictions (perhaps Bobby meant 'in 1968, the Jersey boys were kicking our asses, then after a couple years the Mutt Bros and Super John finally sent them home packing and now their had to be a face off to see who was King' which would put the race at 1970 - which would work except that when Bobby talks about how much each side bet on the race, he said "$125,000 a side, and remember, this is 1968 dollars we're talking about here."

(Possible) Inconsistency #2: The Year of "Super Johns" Camaro

McFadden drove a 1969 Chevrolet Camaro in the race. Chevrolet released the 1969-model Camaro in September of 1968, which would have given the race approximately 4 months to occur in order for "Bobby" to be correct with his "1968" statement. Though some observations need to be brought forth: Bobby says "Between the Mutt Brothers and Super John, we pretty much turned the Jersey dudes away. So here it comes, after a few years of jerkin' around with these [New Jersey] guys, it comes down to the Mutt Brothers and Super John." I presume Bobby is saying that McFadden had his Camaro for at least a 'few years' before the race occurred. So if McFadden bought his Camaro sometime in 1968, then had the car modified by Dick Harrell sometime in very late 1969 or very early 1970 (when the race may have actually occurred), it would make more sense.

Another interesting observation is that it is well known that John McFadden - who had his '69 Camaro modified by Dick Harrell before the race, who also installed a 427 Can-Am ZL-1 which was modified to 488-ci - began racing professionally for Dick Harrell early in 1970 (according to the popular 'Super John/Dick Harrell '69 Camaro' AHRA Fleer trading car), with a 1969 Camaro.

I have tried to find who this "Bobby" may have been, but not much as come out of it. Would anyone happen to know who this "Bobby" - who owned a speed shop in Brooklyn - is/was? Just my two cents on the topic, but would anyone have any further information (hopefully even first-hand!) which may clarify this all, or even simply information to add about this incredible race in general?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-04-2009, 06:23 PM
olredalert olredalert is offline
Yenko Paid Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Marine City, Mi.
Posts: 4,616
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Notes on the Quarter Million Quarter Mile

-----Shawn,,,Have heard the story for years. Just wondering weather it was the Mutt bros. or the Mudd bros.??? I see it both ways.........Bill S
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-04-2009, 07:16 PM
cammer427 cammer427 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 97
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Notes on the Quarter Million Quarter Mile

When I first read the story, the Mudd brothers name was used, instead of Mutt, but I figured Tony DeFeo may have misheard Bobby. When I first was looking up information on the race, "Mudd" brothers came up with the name "Mutt" brothers. The story itself is found on RonaldLyles.com, and the name "Mudd" is used, which probably means it was an error in the original article.

In the story, Bobby also mentions (in the original version of the story, without corrections) that the "Mudd Bros" bought the S&K '68 Hemi Dart.. the same car the Mutt Brothers bought.

These couple things lead me to believe "Mudd" really was most likely just an error on DeFeo's part, and it really was the "Mutt Bros"
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-04-2009, 09:30 PM
lowmile lowmile is online now
Yenko Paid Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Thomasville Ga.
Posts: 437
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Notes on the Quarter Million Quarter Mile

I have the article in an May 87 Muscle Car mag. I scanned it and will send it to someone if they want to post it or have a copy. mark
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-04-2009, 10:25 PM
'69Novajoe's Avatar
'69Novajoe '69Novajoe is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 254
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Notes on the Quarter Million Quarter Mile

I think $125,000 would be an eighth of a million
__________________
I ain't as good as I once was, but I'm as good once as I ever was.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-05-2009, 12:31 AM
lowmile lowmile is online now
Yenko Paid Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Thomasville Ga.
Posts: 437
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Notes on the Quarter Million Quarter Mile

125000 per car.m
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-05-2009, 12:40 AM
cammer427 cammer427 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 97
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Notes on the Quarter Million Quarter Mile

lowmile, I would greatly appreciate a copy of the scans if you don't mind!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-05-2009, 12:40 AM
'69Novajoe's Avatar
'69Novajoe '69Novajoe is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 254
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Notes on the Quarter Million Quarter Mile

[ QUOTE ]
125000 per car.m

[/ QUOTE ]
Missed that. Wow, that's a lot of money any way you look at it. And I thought "Pinks" was crazy.
Joe
__________________
I ain't as good as I once was, but I'm as good once as I ever was.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-05-2009, 12:45 AM
cammer427 cammer427 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 97
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Notes on the Quarter Million Quarter Mile

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
125000 per car.m

[/ QUOTE ]
Missed that. Wow, that's a lot of money any way you look at it. And I thought "Pinks" was crazy.
Joe

[/ QUOTE ]

Crazy, huh? I read somewhere that Tab Talmadge (who bought an ex-Dyno Don Nicholson '65 A/FX 427 SOHC Mustang in 1969) reportedly bid $150,000 on a single run one time.. but then rumors can become a little skewed after changing mouths enough times
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-05-2009, 01:36 AM
lowmile lowmile is online now
Yenko Paid Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Thomasville Ga.
Posts: 437
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Notes on the Quarter Million Quarter Mile

pm your email address. m
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.