Fred Gibb Paper work - Page 3

**William** · #21 05-21-2012, 10:17 PM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sYc</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: William</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What might have happened is of no consequence. Who made it happen is. </div></div>

Exactly!!! Fred Gibb, who had the foresight to order the cars. </div></div>

He didn't do it alone. Don't forget Vince Piggins. Pete Estes, General Manager of Chevy at the time is mentioned on the Broadcast Copies for #1 & #2 and likely deserves some credit.

**sYc** · #22 05-21-2012, 10:43 PM

Geez, William..that has been our point all along, that Fred Gibb and, others, such as Vince Piggins, who were involved originally, deserve credit for the ZL-1.

Nancy Gibb · #23 05-22-2012, 12:05 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: William</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Glenn Powell</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Mr. William: "THERE IN THE BEGINNING" Where were you in the beginning? Show me! Don't run your mouth talking about it, that's the easy way.
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The '69 ZL-1 Camaro was not marketed by Chevrolet like the rest of their models. The cars were secret deals between Vince Piggins and a handful of special dealers. It was barely marketed by Fred Gibb; a few tiny ads in some of the pulp car mags back in the day. Few people knew about the cars; most of those who did couldn&#146;t afford one. Gibb could not sell them and likely could not pay GMAC for them. Chevy had to take 37 of them back and force them on other performance dealerships. They could not sell them either, several were stolen. Dealers swapped out the engines to get rid of them. They never really dominated drag racing; Bill Jenkins &#146;69 PRO Camaro wasn&#146;t one of the production run and ran a 430&#148; Reynolds Can-Am block for much of the season. Early ZL-1 cylinder blocks and heads had structural weaknesses that led to problems in racing. The &#146;69 ZL-1 Camaro was largely a failure and was soon forgotten by the few people who knew about it.
[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/mad.gif[/img] IT was a deal with FRED GIBB and VINCE PIGGINS, THEN other DEALERS got wind of it and were upset so 19 more were built. OUR HOME IS FULL OF PAPERWORK, ADDS ETC......That YOU are more than welcome to look at and read!My Mom saved even the ledger book from when my Dad sold Kaiser Fraisers until 1984 when they sold the FRED GIBB DEALERSHIP. The problem SIR, was because the ORIGINAL QUOTED PRICE was in the $4,900. area, and showed up Jan. 1968 with a STICKER of OVER $7,000. You are MORE THAN WELCOME TO COME TO OUR HOME AND SEE ALL THE ADDS ETC....PROMOTING THE 1969 CHEVROLET CAMARO ZL1's. Oh, AND scrap books, photo albums, newspaper adds ETC.about the 50 COPO NOVA's, and 50 COPO ZL1's. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/

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Perhaps you didn&#146;t see the other thread. As I stated had BP not bought #3 in 1981 and started digging for info, the story of the ZL-1 Camaro could have been lost forever. Vince Piggins notebooks would have probably gone into the trash when he retired. BP would not have contacted Fred Gibb and got his juices flowing. Fred may have eventually tossed the paperwork because there would have been no reason to keep any of it. Most of the cars would be unknown-just like &#146;69 ZL-1 Corvettes.

&#147;In the beginning&#148; is defined as August 1981 Super Chevy magazine; all 69 VINs were published. I was on the ground floor of the research with BP and Mr. C, who relentlessly chased the cars and rescued many. I had sources and also chased them. When I located one of them I asked BP for assistance. We spoke regularly, swapped info and helped each other. When BP completed the #1 restoration he thanked us by placing our names on the car. He repeated the gesture when Car Craft featured #1 in the Dec &#146;89 issue and again in John Hoopers&#146; 1969 Camaro Reference book. He mentioned our business in the excellent February &#146;95 Chevy Hi-Performance feature of a ZL-1 dyno test. #1 & #3 have been featured numerous times in top automotive publications starting with Hot Rod March &#146;83 &#147;Endangered Species: Stalking the Wild ZL-1 Camaro.&#148; Automobile Quarterly recently did a ZL-1 feature and ran a large photo of BP launching #1 on the strip.

Sorry, I don&#146;t have anything to &#147;show&#148; you. I have never owned one. All I did was experience the ZL-1 renaissance unfolding and develop from a forgotten part of Chevrolet history to where it is today, a muscle car legend. All I can do is &#147;run my mouth&#148; about who did what and virtually all of the credit goes to BP.

For the record Vince Piggins and Fred Gibb will always be rightly known as the progenitors of the ZL-1 Camaro. But in my opinion without BP doing what he did there would be not be a 2012 ZL1 Camaro.

Nothing you can say or do will change my opinion because as I stated, I was there in the beginning.

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Nancy Gibb · #24 05-22-2012, 12:08 AM

"THANK YOU" Mr. Clary! THAT IS THE TRUTH! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/worship.gif[/img]

**kwhizz** · #25 05-22-2012, 12:33 AM

......Fred is the one that got the "Ball" rolling........And......as they say back home......the rest is History!!!!!........

**William** · #26 05-22-2012, 01:21 AM

And a big thanks to Bill Porterfield for bringing all of this to light, restoring the #1 car and relentlessly promoting Fred Gibb Chevrolet for all those years!

**kwhizz** · #27 05-22-2012, 01:29 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: William</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And a big thanks to Bill Porterfield for bringing all of this to light, restoring the #1 car and relentlessly promoting Fred Gibb Chevrolet for all those years! </div></div>

I agree.......

**Xplantdad** · #28 05-22-2012, 01:37 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sYc</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Xplantdad</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just one question...who is Mr. C (Apparently, he is "He should not be named"...LOL) [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif[/img] [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif[/img] </div></div>

Ed Cunneen, who wrote a book about COPOS (ZL-1s, Yenkos, etc)the first edition with several VIN numbers, doucmented COPOs for many years, and now I think into Yenko Stinger Corvairs, including road racing. </div></div>

Okay Tom...that's a DUH...on my part...sorry [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/frown.gif[/img]

**sYc** · #29 05-22-2012, 03:50 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kwhizz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">......Fred is the one that got the "Ball" rolling........And......as they say back home......the rest is History!!!!!........ </div></div>

And what a piece of history that plain Jane looking Camaro turned out to be. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/

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If we had only known back then what we do now. Of course I could not afford one back then either.

Bill Porterfield · #30 06-08-2012, 04:10 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kim_Howie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I see the thread was close before I could state what I know.
Because I was there.

1-13-90 was on a sunday. I remember the day very well, it was the day I met Fred & Helen Gibb. I stopped at Fred & Helen's house, Helen invited me in and we talked around 2 hours.
The reason I stopped was because I thought I had found a gibb nova. Fred tolded me he no longer had the VIN# to the Nova's he gave them to BP.
William I noticed you said "A certian individual wisley saw a business opportunity" I think you should have stated BP & the other guy were partners in chasing these cars down. Maybe one got screwed. I won't go it to that.
You stated BP is not a profiteer, intersting. I sold BP a Gibb nova for 2,000.00 because I quote "I don't have one and you own two" Bill told me he wanted to keep and restore the car. Two months later Ray Morrison calls me and tells me there is a Gibb nova in Hemming Motor news for sale. Want guess who's phone # is in Hemmings ---------BP. Price was 16,000.00 14,000.00 profit, no profiteering here. I then buy my 70 Gibb Race car from Bill on 4-16-94. Bill had the car 18 months before selling it to me.
I wonder how he found that car ??? Do you think it might be from Fred Gibbs paperwork ? Do you see a pattern here.
When BP bought the car 6 miles away from my father-in-laws house it was a running driving race car 468 motor ,nice paint ran around 6.90s in the 1/8 mile. When I bought the car there was NO motor,trans,seats,interior,wheels,headers, crossmember,driveshaft & back & front windsheild were gone! Wow. I think he paid around 5,000.00 for the car ,I gave 10,000.00 for the striped shell. No profiteering here.
Now the 1969 ZL-1 #1 car,that car was FOUND by the Gibb paper work period. The car was owned by Jim Cooper from Des Moines, Ia. Foot note I have lived most of my 61 years 60 miles away from Des Moines. The car was raced at Eddyville Raceway which I have been going to this track 46 years. The strip is 14 miles from my house. I watched that car race there sereral times.
Sure wished I had Fred's paper work back then.
Bill buys The #1 ZL-1 with I quote "A boot full 100.00 bills ,sounds like a lot huh. 3200.00 was the price I always heard was paid for the car & how much did he sell it for?? 1,000,000+ is what I have heard. Again NO profiteering here. Give me a break.

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Kim,
• The guys I run with up here in Michigan keep their car dealings pretty much to themselves….the buy & sell numbers are considered confidential….I feel the same way….
• Since you have taken it upon yourself to post information on my confidential car dealings I feel that I must respond…..I do not plan on getting into any tit-for-tat, back & forth posting with you….I am going to post my version of my car deals and move on to more important things….
• I will try to respond to your statements, point by point, as best I can….my version is backed up with phone logs and bills of sale….if you have any questions I will be glad to discuss them with you at the Fred Gibb LaHarpe Car Show….
• Yes – Mr. Gibb gave me his New Car Record Book that contained the Nova VINs after he saw the restoration on his old race car, ZL-1 #1, and it was in my possession for a few years….I returned that book along with a lot of dealership memorabilia to Mrs. Gibb several years ago….
• No – I did not make any profit resulting from my access to the information in the New Car Record Book….I did share the Nova information with another party but I did not seek out any of the cars nor did I ever purchase any of the cars except #370138 that I bought from you….that deal was made between you and me….nothing to do with the Gibb book….
• No – I did not make as large a profit on Nova #370138 as you posted….I made the deal with you for $2,000 for Nova #370138 in early July, 1991…. And yes, I did plan on restoring and keeping the car….BUT….my ZL-1 #1 race car burned in mid-July….I had to make a quick deal on the Nova to help finance the second restoration of the #1 car….do you remember that John Hooper and I picked the car up in August and loaded the car on John’s trailer….you knew that I was going to flip the car to John, immediately, and you knew why….I am going to disclose some of John’s confidential information in order to correct your version of history….I sold the car to John for $5,000….he did a restoration on the car and sold it for (I think) $16,000….I did not advertise the car in Hemmings nor was my phone number in Hemmings regarding the sale of this car….
• No – I did not find the 1970 ½ Gibb race car from the Gibb paperwork….Rick Lenane sent me a copy of the local Wheeler Dealer magazine that contained the ad for the car….I passed that information on to a friend of mine here in Michigan and he is the one that purchased the car….he did some work on the car and removed some of the parts, planning on rebuilding the car as a race car….he ran out of time & money and had to get out from under it….I bought it from him for $5,000 in the same form that it was in when you purchased it from me for $10,000….you say the car was stripped down including “no wheels”….how did you get in on your trailer….
• No – the 1969 ZL-1 #1 car was not “FOUND by the Gibb paperwork period.”as you posted….As I have explained in John Hooper’s book and in a few magazine articles I spotted an ad in the National Dragster in 1983 for the ‘Gibb AHRA Pro Stock World Champion car’….the owner gave me the VIN and when I checked the list that had appeared in Super Chevy Magazine I knew that it was ZL-1 #1….I could not afford the car at the time and had to let it go….the owner did not want to disclose the name of the guy who bought it from him (he kept his car dealings confidential just like most of us do)….I launched a drag net and finally figured out that Jim Cooper had the car….I called Jim and he said “ The car is not for sale”….he was going to put the car back to its original production configuration….In 1988 a friend told me that he heard about a worn-out race car for sale somewhere in Iowa….I phoned Cooper and he said that he did have the car up for sale….I did make the trip to Iowa with cash in my cowboy boots….your version of the amount I paid for the car is a little off….I gave $15,000 for the car, not $3,200 as you posted….yes, like you said in your post, that is a “Boot full of 100.00 bills”….also, your version of the amount I got for the car, eighteen (18) years later was not exactly correct….I did not get $1,000,000+ for the car….quite frankly, what I did get for the car is none of anyone’s business….
• Once again….I did not find ZL-1 #1 because of the Gibb paperwork….I got the New Car Record Book and other documents from Mr. Gibb after I had restored the car….your version of history is not very accurate….the ZL-1 VIN list was published in August 1981….since you lived so close to where the car was and where it was raced, you had a better chance of putting two & two together than I did….you could have found the car long before I did….you didn’t need Fred’s paperwork back then….other guys were finding the cars based on the info in the Super Chevy Magazine list….
• In your post you used the terms “I think he paid” and “Do you think it might be from Fred Gibb’s paperwork” and “the price I always heard was” and “….is what I have heard”….I guess those terms give you some wiggle room Kim….
• One last thing….I owned ZL-1 #1 and ZL-1 #3 for many, many years. I displayed them at numerous races and events over the years. They were featured in several of the major car magazines, building the ZL-1 Camaro legend and putting Fred Gibb Chevrolet and LaHarpe, IL on the high performance map….
• You used the terms “Profiteer” and “Profiteering” when you posted your version of my confidential business….I assume you don’t plan on making any money on your 1970 ½ Gibb race car when you sell it….
• Like I said earlier, I do not intend on getting into a back & forth conversation on this subject….I am posting information that, up till now, I considered personal and confidential, in order to correct your version of my history….If you, or any of your friends, have any additional questions I will be glad to answer them in LaHarpe on August 4th….
• We will be cackling the Jim Kirby/Dick Harrell 1968 Camaro AA/FC in Monmouth, IL on Friday the 3rd, LaHarpe on the 4th in the afternoon and in Macomb, IL in the evening….cackles after dark are pretty cool….especially on 100% NITRO….
• See you in LaHarpe….

I’m done with this….Porterfield