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  #21  
Old 12-11-2003, 05:10 PM
442w30 442w30 is offline
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Default Re: 1966 GTO 421??

I think it's an old wive's tale. Using that logic, there's some 326 Tempest out there with a 421.
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  #22  
Old 12-11-2003, 08:07 PM
sixtiesmuscle sixtiesmuscle is offline
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Default Re: 1966 GTO 421??

I agree, but, it could account for those "freaks' we used to have running around. That is, other than Wanger's "demos". I'm curious to hear what sources Bobcat has for this assertion.
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  #23  
Old 12-11-2003, 08:36 PM
442w30 442w30 is offline
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Default Re: 1966 GTO 421??

I hear ya, but what freaks do you talk about? Cars that were running faster than they should?

Speaking of freaks, we're all hung up on 421 cars. It'd be cool to find a 428HO GTO. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif[/img]
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  #24  
Old 12-11-2003, 09:24 PM
sixtiesmuscle sixtiesmuscle is offline
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Default Re: 1966 GTO 421??

In our area,"Freaks" were the cars we KNEW were as delivered, but, were significantly quicker than most of that same car. I'd still take a 421 HO over a 428 HO. Just my preference of course.
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  #25  
Old 12-12-2003, 08:28 PM
supergonzo supergonzo is offline
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Default Re: 1966 GTO 421??

There were no 421 GTO's produced(other than the 2 in the 64' article), that "ran out of engines" stuff is nonsense. And I'm a pontiac guy. Jim Wangers has already answered this question several times at shows, I have asked him directly. His response is NO.

Myrtle motors here in NY would swap 428's into 68 and later GTO's and provide RAIV heads,intakes,cams and exhaust as part of a kit that they sold and advertised in car magazines. They claimed to get 13 flat ET's on stock tires. How many swaps they did is a mystery. But they were not from the factory that way.
-------------------------------
By the way the other manufacturers ALL supplied super-tuned cars for road tests.
Wouldn't You?
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  #26  
Old 12-18-2003, 03:32 AM
Bobcat Bobcat is offline
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Default Re: 1966 GTO 421??

You do realize that Jim Wangers' took a hard line that "NO" 421's where put into GTO's at the Factory. It wasn't until a couple of years ago that Jim Wangers admitted that the two '64 C & D cars had 421's. In 1962 there were 6 1962 Tempests with 421's taken to Daytona,one black and five white, one year before the official 421 SD Tempest program everone knows about. YES, in 1966, they built 6 421 Tempests that where also shipped to Smokey Yunick and onto Daytona for testing. These types of cars were/are known as engineering mules. They were built without titles. Even today mules are built without VIN numbers than, supposed to be, crushed. This is do to lawsuites and liablities.These are a few of the ones I know of. There are many more. NEVER SAY NEVER. These cars do not generate paper work for the historic services. GM can't afford to admit they built something that does not comply with the AMA papers they submit to the government . These cars are not for public consumption. Official line will aways be "Didn't happened" I'm sure you have heard of the Delorean's "What If Sessions". Delorean himself drove around a '67 Firebird convertible with OHC 6 with side draft webbers. Pontiac didn't offer it. Does it mean it wasn't built either because Pontiac Historic Services doesn't have the paper work. At least Jack "Doc" Watson finally admited that all of the '68 and '69 Hurst Olds' had factory installed 455's. For years people beleived that Hurst or Demmer Olds did the swaps. Chevy put 427's in Nova' and Camaro's. What, Pontiac didn't have the ability? THINK ABOUT IT Pontiac invented the concept.
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  #27  
Old 12-18-2003, 03:42 AM
Bobcat Bobcat is offline
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Default Re: 1966 GTO 421??

I seem to remember Twelve (12), Six (6) LeMans coupe and six(6) Tempest wagons with factory 421's and aluminum front ends in the 1963 Super Duty program. The LeMans cuopes"; Ray Nichels/Paul Goldsmith Daytona coupe, Stan Long Pontiac, Superior Pontiac, (2)Mickey Thompson, George Delorean. wagon's:Royal had a Tempest Wagon, As did Anderson Pontiac, Hodges Pontiac, Van Winkle Pontiac, Union Park and Arnie Beswick. This not including the 6 421 Tempests built by the factory in 1962 for Daytona testing.
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  #28  
Old 12-18-2003, 03:56 AM
Bobcat Bobcat is offline
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Default Re: 1966 GTO 421??

In 1966 the vin was not stamped into the block. The block number was a unit number that would only be on the paper work. Numbers matching was not an issue at the factory. The date codes are within an exceptable span with most purists. If you look your engine over the heads are not nessarily the same date and time and rarely is the head the same as the block date. The assemblers aren't going to take the time to check date codes or casting #'s. '66 Cars may have
one 092 head and one 093. What than? Tell me would you have noticed? I doubt it. If you had an early or late car you got a hadge podge of parts. They used whatever was in the bin and fit was used.
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  #29  
Old 12-18-2003, 04:22 AM
Bobcat Bobcat is offline
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Default Re: 1966 GTO 421??

Some one wanted my credentials. I'll just scratch the surface.The Source of most of my information. Is I was there for much of it. Family member in engineering depart in '50's through '80's. Family had scrap contracts for GM. Supplied cold roll steel for prototype, production runs and spot buys. Family owned several auto parts stores and machine shops in Detroit area. Some of the employees went on to engineering and suppler companies. Friend was Pontiac assistant line distrbution manager. '66 though 1969 than went onto engineering dept.I keep in touch with a few of them. Freinds worked You'll find me in the credit's of The History Channels "history of the Firbird", The BBC's Jermey Clarkston's "Detroit The Auto Industry", SpeedChannels "MuscleCar" "The Hurst Corporation", I'm in the first paragraph of the "Introduction" of Jim Wangers book glory days. Several past and current pateints are the people you are discussing. From days of old. President Royal Pontiac Club of America. www.Royalpontiac.org, I grew with friends who's fathers where head engineers from different departments and divisions. Family memmber went to Northwood Institute with Roger Smith's daughter Tory and several other dealer and manufacturing executives kids. Do I pass the audition.
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  #30  
Old 12-18-2003, 04:55 AM
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Steve_Hoog Steve_Hoog is offline
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Default Re: 1966 GTO 421??

WOW!!! I'm impressed... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img]
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