Define "re-body"...

[Mark_C]

So we get back to my original post that said maybe the 50% criteria would need a time limit, since I have already replaced 2 fenders and 2 quarters along with a new convertible top in 1983, a door skin, half floor pan and new valence panel in 91 and potentially a new trunk lid and outer wheelwells if I repaint the car this year I'm coming up on the magic 50 percent of sheetmetal requirement to qualify as a rebody. Maybe convertibles should get a break ( like 65%)since they don't have sheetmetal roofs and sail panels. I certainly would not consider my car a rebody as none of the changes I have made affect any of the original components that carry the hidden VINs and none of the parts used ever existed on another vehicle (except the valence). So the definition of a rebody does not work for me, unless there was some kind of modification like the parts used in the "rebody" came from another vehicle(vs NOS or aftermarket components). The others are fine.

[njsteve]

Here is the final verdict from someone in the legal profession:

Removing the VIN from one body and placing it on a DIFFERENT body is illegal. Period, end of story.

Removing the VIN from a body to replace a rusty part and then reinstalling it on the SAME body, is not seen as a criminal offense by most law enforcement agencies. Some states require a law enforcement witness to the removal and reinstallation but it is more of a motor vehicle-related infraction and not the major felony that VIN swapping is. Replacing a single panel on the original body or a large number of panels does not alter the classification.

That is how the law enforcement agencies, state and federal, view it.

Just because some car owner's club or restoration judging entity creates a classification for "air cars" or "rebodies" etc., doesn't alter the fact that the car is illegal and the act of creating it is a serious crime.

It is only a matter of time until an example is made of one of these VIN swapped, rebodied, high dollar, high publicity cars. It will take one of these Franken-cars to get seized for the violation to be finally taken seriously by the unscrupulous traders and "restorers."

It is the duty of all enthusiasts of bonafide cars to raise a stink every time one of these rebodied/VIN swapped abortions comes to light, because when they do come up for auction and the publicity leads them to sell for 1/3 of what the seller has into it, then the purveyors of these rolling felonies will finally stop dealing in them and go back to selling swamp land in Florida.

Here's a reall life example: Remember that Rally green, rebodied "low mileage" Z/28 that sold at the BJ Las Vegas auction last year? The stink raised by that car was probably the reason that the same buyer did not go anywhere near the green ZL1. (Even the really creepy backrubbing by Mr. Sunglasses, caught on camera, couldn't get him to bid on the ZL1) Very wise move by the bidder to keep his wallet closed during that sale, and without him in the bidding mix, the car was not bid up to real ZL1 value territory. Obviously, the intelligent people present that evening saw he wasn't bidding and took that as a hint to stay away.

[kwhizz]

What Steve "Said"......

Ken

[njsteve]

One more addendum: I get people that always ask about the new dynacorn bodies. They always bring up the fact that the bodies are advertised as "authorized by GM" or "licensed by Ford" or whomever, and they seem to think that makes them legal to swap a VIN to...

DEAD WRONG!

The "authorized/licensed part" label refers to the component being licensed as a replacement part by GM or Ford. This enables the seller to to sell it as a "Camaro" or "Mustang" body part. It is done to avoid being sued by GM or Ford for copyright infringment. Nothing more. It has absolutely no effect on the fact that it is still a felony to bolt another car's VIN tag to that different body shell.

Replacement parts copyright licensing and VIN tag swapping are completely unrelated legal areas - one is civil/business law and the other is criminal law. Riveting another car's VIN to a "licensed" body does not magically immunize the car (or the rivetor) from the felony that has been committed.

[showyourauto]

[ QUOTE ]
So we get back to my original post that said maybe the 50% criteria would need a time limit, since I have already replaced 2 fenders and 2 quarters along with a new convertible top in 1983, a door skin, half floor pan and new valence panel in 91 and potentially a new trunk lid and outer wheelwells if I repaint the car this year I'm coming up on the magic 50 percent of sheetmetal requirement to qualify as a rebody.

[/ QUOTE ]

When I am considering a car, I look at WHAT sheetmetal has been replaced and compare that to what typically rusted out first in those given models. Typically, rear quarters are the first things to go, then some the trunk floor is more common, followed by the front floor pans. This kind of work, when done right does not bother me. If we are talking about major rust in structural areas of the car, eg. frame horns, firewall, A pillars, rocker boxes, rear frame extensions, etc- that kind and extent of replacement gives me pause. Depending on the rarity of the vehicle, one of these on the list may be acceptable (at a reduced price). More than a couple of these key items, I'd consider the car a "rebody". To borrow from the construction trade: new sheet rock, no big deal. Replacing the most of the major load bearing walls, I'll likely look for another house.

[iluv69s]

[ QUOTE ]


Removing the VIN from one body and placing it on a DIFFERENT body is illegal. Period, end of story.



[/ QUOTE ]


Thats the bottom line in a nutshell.....from a legal point of view!! Thanks

[Schonyenko2]

Thank you. That was what I have believed all along.
I still have a hard time understanding how they, :ie law enforcement feds/locals, allow cars that are labeled as rebodies to blatently be auctioned off. It's hard to look the other way when milloins of people are watching.
Does knowingly selling a rebodied car at auction, like they (BJ) are doing constitute complicity, and or fraud?
And finally, if you as the new owner, knowing full well that the car is a retagged, rebody, go and have it titled, and registered in your name, are you also complicent in perpetuating the fraud?
Nice to have legal counsel on the SYC site. Leave him alone Kwizz.

[kwhizz]

I agree with everything Steve "Said" ..........LOL....(Steve is an Exception to the Rule)

Ken

[RichSchmidt]

Here is what I see as another possible problem.There are only 3 vins on 1st gen Camaros.One is on the firewall,over the heater box,one is the tag on the dash{68/69}and the oter is on the subframe.What if somebody bought a dynacorn body,drilled ot the welds that hold the upper cowl area to the original car including the upper dash area,and reused the old subframe and attached it all to the dynacorn body?Technically all the numbers would match.You could go further and say that somebody can restamp the numbers into the cowl and front subframe using stamps and gang holders and you wouldnt b able to tell that the car wasnt original.

I am restoring a car that I cut up into a race car 20 years ago and would like to put back on the street now.I am replacing the entire floorpan from toeboards to tail light panel including the rear rails with new metal,along with inner and outer wheelhouses,full 1/4's and a tail panel.I am also putting 2 donor doors with new skins and 2 NOS fender on it and a new upper and lower front panel,new bumpers and braces.All that will be original will be the rockers,the roof and most of the roof inner structure,and the entire firewall.I dont have any problems calling my car legit,and plan on restoring it to chalk mark specs.I dont know of many cars that are restored that have 50% of their structural or external sheet metal left anyhow.If they have more the 50% of their metal theft,then chances are they are touted as a nearly unmolested original.Most of these old cars started sprouting rust holes about 2 years after they were madel,and the ones that didnt only stayed clean because they were hacked into race cars.

[Salvatore]

Where on the subframe?