Question for Pontiac folks

[old5.0]

I have a question that's been nagging me for quite some time, and maybe someone here can give some insight. In the 80's, GM was basically alone in attempting to maintain some semblance of midsize performance. Ford had the T-Bird Turbo Coupe which, while it was a good road car/grand touring rig, was definitely not a musclecar (although, to be fair, it never pretended to be one, either). Olds did the H/O's in 83-84 and offered a G-body 442 throughout the 80's, as well as being continuously involved in NHRA Stock during this period (I've heard they even delivered a handful of special "lightweight" G-body Cutlasses to certain loyal Olds drivers back in the mid-80's, but I don't know the details). Chevy had the Monte SS, which wasn't a barnstormer in stock form, although I think the 305 HO had more potential than most people give it credit for. Of course the Turbo Regals speak for themselves.


My question is, where was Pontiac? It still sold itself as the Enthusiast division of GM, so why no hot rod Grand Prix? The 2+2 was interesting, but was saddled with a boat anchor of a 305. Did the powers that be at Pontiac feel the Firebird was sufficient for attracting the straightline crowd? Was there interference from on high at GM headquarters? Were any hot GP's ever discussed or planned? There were plenty of performance-oriented GP's to come, seemingly almost as soon as the front-drive GM-10 hit the scene in 88, so why were the last of the rear-drivers abandoned right in the middle of a massive resurgence in factory performance?

[ds1]

You are right in pointing out the absence of Pontiac. And you are right about Olds. I know Steve Sweitzer and Joe Scott they both ran Olds 442's. Joe had a 442 pilot car with out a title he put one on and drove it. He has been trying to sell some of those cars.

[ds1]

You are right in pointing out the absence of Pontiac. And you are right about Olds. I know Steve Sweitzer and Joe Scott they both ran Olds 442's. Joe had a 442 pilot car with out a title he put one on and drove it. He has been trying to sell some of those cars. The answer seems to be in the fact that Pontiac and Chevy pushed the Camaro and Firebird. Olds did not have an offering like that. The Monte Carlo was not often seen then. The Grand Prix and Monte Carlo SS were Nascar products. Buick was in Nascar and the Olds Calais offering was not a G body, but they offered a Cup car also. At that time all parts on the cars had to have factory part numbers. A joke, all cars ran MSD ignition but the systems all had the makers name, color and a factory part number on them. The beginning of dumb politics and what I called the sterilization of a manly sport.

[Tracker1]

Pontiac did not have a performance V8 or V6 platform to call their own, at least not one that responded to factory engineered, emissions-passing modifications. Chevrolet still had a small-block which became a "corporate" engine for every division, but they put their own touch on it (L69). Olds had a 307 and Buick as you pointed out, had their V6 version of My Pet Monster. You cannot under-estimate how losing the V8 programs in 1979 (400) and then 1981 (301HO) killed company self-esteem at Pontiac division. They seemed happy to coast on Chevy's engine for the T/A and leave the GP as a luxury GT car with no teeth - as it had been since about 1972 anyway. None of the round-port hi-perf Pontiac engines of the early '70s were ever offered in a GP, so the car's "persona" was set.

[RAIIIT/A]

With Pontiac you could get a TPI motor in the GTA.. Trans Am and Formula Firebirds. In 1989 you could get the turbo GN V6 in a Firebird. Pontiac was more focused on F-bodies than G-bodies.
Chevy only offered the TPI in the Corvette and Z/28.....no other Camaros were offered with the TPI. Too bad you couldn't get the TPI in a G-body

[ds1]

You could not get TPI in a G body. It is funny though that I have had several people tell me they or their buddy had one. I have had 2 85 Monte SS over the years. The Carburated engines out ran fuel injected cars in stock form. They did well at what I call " the grand illusion". Making you feel like you had power. With OD transmissions and gearing they did a good job of fooling people.

[firstgenaddict]

As far as a performance program, Pontiac was doing twin turbo V8 Trans Ams in the late 80's early 90's as studies, They made Firebird 1LE's which are much rarer than the Camaro 1LE's.
The Firebirds may have been run in the Players Championship races in Canada or were they running the Camaros in that series as well?

[old5.0]

Well, Pontiac was on top of things with the F-Body. People have this perception of the Third Gen as being generally slow which was fed by the thousands of 305 throttle body powered stones GM pumped out of Van Nuys and Norwood every year. But people forget that you could buy a genuinely fast Third Gen by the late 80’s-early 90’s.


The 89 Turbo T/A is still one of the top three or four fastest production Firebirds ever made, the 91-92 Firehawks (even though they weren’t assembly line) made something like 370 honest net horsepower, and that was before you ordered the aluminum block 383 stroker option. And you could still order a pretty brutal “regular” Firebird back then, if you knew how to play the option list. Order a Formula with no comfort or convenience options, the TPI 305, 5-speed, N10, G80, G92, and all that car needed to crack a 13 second quarter mile was a driver not afraid of his own shadow.


There’s no doubt the boys at Pontiac played the F-body hustle like Minnesota Fats back then. But that’s why it’s so confusing that there was never a hot rod G-Body Grand Prix.

[old5.0]

Just a little addendum. I was talking to a guy the other day who told me that Myrtle Motors built a handful of hot rodded GP's in the mid-80's. Any truth to that?

[PxTx]

Got an idea on the basic mods on the GP?

Thought of you Tony when I read this thread here:

http://gearheads.org/why-you-should-.../#.VN1jM6NOnFp

They fault the Fox body becasue Ford was intending to replace it with the Probe. Ha! Turbo TA gets all the glory.