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  #501  
Old 06-19-2012, 08:41 PM
hvychev hvychev is offline
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Default Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">From August 1, 2011, here's a portion of an email from Valerie - I was one of three other recipients.
Valerie was discussing who of the four parties would lose credibility including her own. <span style="font-weight: bold">Valerie suggested using a family friend to examine my documents. I contacted that family friend and followed his directions to the letter, offering to have my docs examined by a forensic document if Valerie agreed to accept their findings </span> - my offer was ignored . . .

</div></div>

What the fun......I think I'm in the gosh darn Twilight Zone here.

Roger, what the hell are you doing? Examine your documents????? &quot;IF Valerie agreed to <span style="font-weight: bold">accept </span> their findings?&quot; Are you friggin kidding me? SCREW what Valerie thinks or says along with that other screwball you were going back and forth with. I'd be damned if I bought a BRAND NEW car back in 1969 that was sold to me as a Dick Harrell car with supporting documentation (the window sticker), at a well known dealer (Bill Allen Chevrolet) that sold those cars brand new, and they wanted me to get my paperwork examined by a &quot;forensic document expert.&quot; I mean, is this supposed to be an effing joke?

Roger, you seem like a nice guy and all. You're from the sticks of Missouri right? Well, I'm from Chicago. When you grow up in the big city you learn to smell out bull $hit and spot con artists from a mile away. Something ain't right here. Buddy, you got caught up in a goofy situation with these people. Just laugh it off and walk away, and DON'T look back.
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  #502  
Old 06-19-2012, 08:49 PM
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Default Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle

Yep - from the sticks . . .
GOOD advice, THANKS!!!
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  #503  
Old 06-19-2012, 08:59 PM
hvychev hvychev is offline
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Default Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle

Seriously Roger. Put your pictures back up and keep having fun with the car and the wonderful woman who has been by your side since day one. Drive the hell out of the thing and if it gets a nick or scratch who gives a $hit. The last bleepin thing I would ever be thinking about is what those pack of wolves thought about any of my personal business. Let them sit and stew in their own hate and misery while you have a blast with your car and continue to meet and have fun with REAL people and not invisible goofs on the Internet.
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  #504  
Old 06-19-2012, 09:28 PM
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Default Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle

I generally try to avoid these arguments, but I have a few questions and observations here. First, I noticed that an observation was made on TC regarding the fact that Roger had no contact with DHPC, and that when warranty work was required, the car was returned to Bill Allen, and that this was somehow proof that the car carries no Dick Harrell connection. The logic of this statement seems faulty. Roger purchased the car from Bill Allen, why would he not have returned there for warranty work? It would seem that the onus would fall on Bill Allen to handle any coordination with Harrell on warranty work, not the customer. Had I owned the car, returned for warranty work to Bill Allen, and been told &quot;Sorry, go see Dick Harrell&quot; I would have proceeded to raise hell right there in the showroom. This seems like weak evidence on the part of those claiming that the car carries no connection to Dick's operation. How were warranty claims on cars sold in California, for example, handled(I believe Harrell's dealer network extended that far)? Surely these owners weren't told to have their new cars towed 1500 miles to Harrell's shop to satisfy said claims.

Next, a point of pride more than anything else. Someone on TC made the claim that the car was sold with a Harrell invoice to fluff it up for a market that didn't know what a COPO was. This is complete and utter bull@!*$. I'm no expert on Chevy supercars, but I am fairly knowledgeable regarding the musclecar scene in the Kansas/Nebraska/western Missouri area. People here were well aware of the COPO process. Mac's in Crete, NE and VanT in Topeka were both well known movers of COPOs at that time. I also have reliable information of more than half a dozen dealers selling one or more COPO Camaros/Chevelles in the northeast Kansas area alone. I'd bet that KS/NE/MO was second only to the Ohio/Pennsylvania/New Jersey area in terms of total COPO sales. A distant second, sure, but to claim that people here were unaware of then is simply incorrect. A minor point, but the idea that Bill Allen was somehow forced to add Harrell badges and paper to move the car seems ludicrous to me.

Next a general observation. It seems that there are people who now wish to discount the paperwork and the original owner's statements. Fine. But it seems as though these are some of the same people who in the past have venerated paperwork and owner history as the only true measure of a car's worth. It has been intimated, in fact, that an in-person review of a car itself is virtually worthless <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">without the accompanying paper and owner statements.</span></span> So which is it? Is the paperwork not enough in this case? If so, why? Are there not other examples of COPO Chevrolets delivered through Bill Allen and modified at Harrell's shop that are deemed legit? Even if the modification was something as simple as re-jetting the carb and modifying the distributor, that indicates something beyond the ordinary, doesn't it? What's the threshold for necessary modifications to be considered a true Harrell car? I believe that even non-converted Yenko Novas are still considered Yenko Novas so long as YSC paperwork exists.

There's more, but that's enough typing for now. Roger, it's a fantastic car and a story, and I've enjoyed following along. The recent turn of events is unfortunate, but as you said, you know what you have and what the paperwork shows. I know what I believe to be the case in this situation, and I'll tell anyone who asks that you have a legitimate Supercar.
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  #505  
Old 06-19-2012, 11:44 PM
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Default Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle

----Everybody here has good points that will stand the test of time. One other thing that I could add would be that I wouldnt tow my car across the street for the Harrell group to look at. I can only imagine how I would feel if I towed the car any distance and a tow strap broke or a coyote ran in front of my truck or any other of the million things that could happen just to try to get verification of what I already knew to be true. In a word it isnt worth it, Roger!!! You know what you have, and theres nothing the Harrell group can really add. I get the distinct feeling that you would tow the car to thier location just to recieve a rejection anyway.......Bill S
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Old 06-19-2012, 11:55 PM
Keith Tedford Keith Tedford is offline
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Default Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle

As far as warranty work back then, you could take your car to whatever GM dealer you wanted. Back in '68 I had a Ram Air I Firebird. When brand new at London Motor Products, London, Ontario, the engine was balanced and blueprinted. The heads were cut to minimum CCs. The Royal Pontiac Bobcat kit was added along with polylok nuts, and headers. The rear rims were widened to 8&quot; and the biggest MTs available were added. The Pontiac dealers in Oshawa and Peterborough, Ontario did warranty work with no questions asked. I would imagine that the same GM rules would have applied to Roger's car. Our COPO car had headers and fat tires, Hurst shifter, yet warranty work was never a problem. Roger, stick your ground. You have hidden nothing. You have the paperwork to back up what you say and what others think is irrelevant. I have not once seen where you claimed anything more than what the paperwork shows. Enjoy the car and ignore them. Party poopers.
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  #507  
Old 06-20-2012, 12:10 AM
hvychev hvychev is offline
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Default Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I get the distinct feeling that you would tow the car to thier location just to recieve a rejection anyway....... </div></div>

Bill, the smart guy that you are, I get that feeling about Roger as well. I know I sounded like a jerk, but that's why I made that comment about Roger being from the sticks of MO. He just doesn't seem to get what he's got there, and for the life of me I can't figure out why he gives a $hit what those people think of it.
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  #508  
Old 06-20-2012, 01:34 AM
Keith Tedford Keith Tedford is offline
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Default Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle

I too would just move on. The car is what it is and the paperwork is what it is. No one can change that nor take it away. Personally I love the car. My buddy also had a new orange COPO Chevelle in '69. Roger's is definitely striking and will hold its own in ANY show.
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  #509  
Old 06-20-2012, 01:53 AM
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Default Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hvychev</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I get the distinct feeling that you would tow the car to thier location just to recieve a rejection anyway....... </div></div>

Bill, the smart guy that you are, I get that feeling about Roger as well. I know I sounded like a jerk, but that's why I made that comment about Roger being from the sticks of MO. He just doesn't seem to get what he's got there, and for the life of me I can't figure out why he gives a $hit what those people think of it. </div></div>

Frank,

Nice reality check of the situation. It is quite refreshing.

I know Roger and he has always wanted to do things right regarding the car, its restoration and history. Unfortunately not all the parties involved have been on board. It doesn't matter. He has all he needs to enjoy this beautiful piece of automotive history.

Regards

Phil Woj
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  #510  
Old 06-20-2012, 04:50 AM
Charley Lillard Charley Lillard is offline
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Default Re: RogerD's 1969 Dick Harrell Chevelle

Please keep the discussion on this site civil.
My two cents is if I were the Harrell's I would not bluntly say it is not a Harrell car. They might think it isn't but Roger apparently has a Harrell document saying it is. Regardless of the inconsistencies, how do you prove he doesn't have a real document ? I don't see Joel Rosen saying &quot;You don't have a Motion car&quot;. What he usually says is more like &quot;I don't believe you do&quot; or &quot; Without further proof I can't document your car&quot;. That way Joel isn't liable for discrediting and possibly devaluing a real car if it turns out he is wrong. I could see where the dealer might stick a Harrell Sticker on it to possibly help it sell and have a agreement with Dick. Nothing was set in stone back then.
The Harrell group is not allowed on this site so a better place to continue the discussion is probably the Chevelle site.
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