1963 Plymouth Savoy 426 MAX Wedge, 20k orig miles

[Dave Castine]

The big thing is the first two numbers are PUNCHED and the remaining numbers are stamped on the real tags - I'll get to the bottom of it guy, thanks VERY MUCH!!

[Dave Castine]

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

This car has been discussed on another forum, specifically the VIN Tag:

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/...-question.html

Yup that was my post as well, thanks!

[rts]

Any updates???

[Dave Castine]

Just talked to the seller. He bought this car as part of a package in order to get the car he really wanted, a 67 Belvedere II Silver Special with the Hemi in it, a one of one car that went thru Barrett a few years back and was bought by the owner of this Savoy. The Savoy's owner passed away about 10 years ago and the current owner bought the two cars from the widow, she didn't want to break up her husband's collection. Steve, the current owner and seller, did not like the way the original vin tag was affixed to the car so he had a new one made. He used these guys >> http://www.datatags.com/ and sent him Galen's paperwork, a picture of the fendertag, etc. In hindsight he's obviously wishing he never did, but he's a perfectionist and the trim tag was in horrible shape so he had the new one made.

I'm sorry, but I am not that up on the way these older MAX cars were built, I'm a 67-up guy.

I'm waiting to get a pic of the OLD/Original tag to see why it needed to be replaced, I also wrote to the guys that re-did the tag to see if they hold on to the old ones as Steve can't find it among his records.

Sorry again for all this confusion - price has dropped to $80k - thanks guys!

[Dave Castine]

Guys - I have some new news regarding the legitimacy of this 63 Savoy... please see the email below from the owner of the car. NOTE: This car WILL BE AT MECUM Kissimmee in January. I hope this clears things up - unfortunately the VIN tag "is what it is" and hindsight is 20/20. This is information worthy of being told regarding this seemingly very genuine old Mopar... thanks.

Hi Dave, I hope that all is well with you.

Since you burst my bubble back in July regarding the authenticity of my 1963 Plymouth Savoy I have spent untold hours researching the Max Wedge cars to see if mine is real or fake.

I had many sleepless nights and thought that I had a clone or fake on my hands.

I can now report back to you that 63 Max-Wedge is 100% real with all documentation and “MATCHING” VIN and SO numbers. I first wrote to Chrysler Historical to obtain a copy of the car’s original “Car Record Card” (IBM Card) (copy attached). This is the most important piece of documentation that an owner (or buyer) can have in order to confirm the authenticity of a Max Wedge car.

The IBM card contains the Shipping Order (SO) number and the VIN number. According to the attached article from Maxwedge.com “the SO is the number that ties in with the VIN of the car and proves the body matches the VIN. It really is a safeguard for protecting a car from being counterfeited.”

I have also attached a copy of the original “Build Sheet” for this vehicle. The shipping order number on the build sheet, taken from the car, matches the SO number. There is no doubt that this max wedge car has its original body and Sheetmetal and that the VIN number on the car is the correct matching VIN number for the car.

I have attached photographs of the SO number stamped into the front radiator support as well as the SO numbers stamped into the rear package tray, in front of the rear window. I removed the rear seat, cardboard backing, tray cardboard and finished panel in order to take photographs of the SO number (photo’s attached). I will leave the rear seat assembled so that you may come to my shop to verify these numbers. If I don’t hear back within a week that you would like to document the SO numbers on the car then I will put it all back together.

With all of the SO numbers and VIN number matching then that leaves us with the reproduction or replacement VIN tag. I can only speculate as to what occurred whereas I was not the owner or present when the restoration took place..

When this car was nut and bolt restored in the late 80’s or early nineties I don’t believe that much attention was paid to the authenticity of VIN tags. I believe that the VIN tag was most likely removed for the restoration and then crudely reattached after painting.

Although someone has questioned the crudely attached VIN as being authentic because of the small font, raised numeral stamping, I have attached a copy of another small font, stamped VIN from a “REAL” Max Wedge 1963 Plymouth Savoy (built 12/62). Although the VIN has been removed from the car (during a restoration) it is the real original VIN. So it is evident that the early 63 Savoy’s (mine was built 11/62) had this type of VIN tag. I will really need to look at some other documented early 63 Savoy’s to see if their tags appear differently.

Although you sent me photographs of two additional MOPAR VIN’s, which appear at the end of this e-mail chain, neither is a VIN off of an early production 1963 Savoy Max Wedge Car. One is from a 1964 Plymouth Savoy (3141) and the other is from a 1962 Plymouth Savoy Suburban (2521) six cylinder car. The “pre-punched” type of VIN tag may well have been only for the standard Savoy’s (punched 31 indicates Savoy) and the special production Max Wedge cars received the “stamped” type. Regardless of what was used back in the day this 63 Max Wedge is a real Max Wedge with all matching body numbers.

I spoke with Darrell Davis and sent him the photographs of the two types of VIN tags regarding this discrepancy and he informed me that “maybe that they used some tags with single debossed numbers. I can’t explain it.” I have this e-mail response in my files. Darrell did state in his reply that “if the body number (stamped) on the car is correct with the SO Number then the car is that VIN so I can’t describe what happened.” In other words If the SO numbers match the VIN numbers then the car is the real deal.

Obviously I should have left the crudely welded VIN tag on the car and left it at that. Because I like clean looking details I obtained a reproduction Vin (for which I have documentation) and ground off the existing VIN. I was unaware that the tag should have been spot welded so I just welded it on. Then your guy brought up the fact that the VIN did not look correct and was attached incorrectly. He was correct on the attachment but maybe not on the stamping vs punching of the first two numerals.

So anyhow, after months of research and reading I am completely satisfied that the car is a real deal 20,000 mile Max Wedge car with all required documentation to back it up. It has also been decoded by Galen Govier. I am sure that when Galen verified the car in 1992 that he looked at the stamped SO body numbers an also saw the VIN that was attached (reattached) to the car at that time. This car is also listed in the Darrell Davis book of 1963 Max Wedge cars.

I currently have the car consigned to the MECUM January 2018 Kissimmee FL auction. I cannot remove the car at this time without paying a substantial penalty.

Should you have any interested buyers they may see it at this auction. If it does not meet its reserve price then I will bring it back and you may market it accordingly now that we both know that it is a “REAL” Max Wedge car.

I am grateful for having the discrepancies on the VIN pointed out to me. That caused me to do much research and verification. I can now market the car knowing that it is not a clone or fake.

Please let me know if you have any questions or would like to verify the stamped body SO numbers before I put it back together in case you need to verify them for a future customer.

Regards,
Steve

The WEBSITE used as a reference for this is >> http://racehemi.maxwedge.com/topics/real.php

I hope this helps clear things up - thanks guys and MERRY CHRISTMAS!!

[Dave Castine]

BTW - this car was sold at Mecum