Market for survivors...

[Lee Stewart]

Originally Posted by cook_dw

And this is the reason why the faking of original cars will continue to increase. Where there is money to be made a liar, cheat and thief will try to take advantage.

Not picking on you Ryan just sayin'.

Whenever you have a rare and valuable asset there will always be someone looking to make "a silk purse from a sow's ear."

Some cars can't be faked because all that were built are accounted for. But others are ripe for the faking. Especially those that bring huge money at auctions like that 1967 L71 Corvette I posted photos of earlier in this thread for example. If the goal is to create a 6000 mile all original 1967 L71 Corvette that will sell at auction for $675,000 - that leaves a ton of money to reach that goal.

[cook_dw]

That was my point Lee.. Thieves follow the money....

[MosportGreen66]

Here is my take on cars that get fluffed, and massaged (even by the top experts) and altered into survivor status - those cars will always be labeled as such. Period.

Especially in the world of Corvettes, the level of forensic study on these cars is incredible. The top tier judges study literally every bolt. They can tell when bolts have elongated markings showing when they've been taken off and put back on. They study how for instance the exhaust bolts show consistency with the exhaust system. They're aware of what plating typically ages faster/slower/discolors/changes, etc.

For example - I know of a wonderful '66 Corvette L72 Convert that was about 35% original paint, 100% original interior, and OEM/born with motor/trans/rear. It was largely unmodified but used and then fluffed in like 1999 ish. That car recently shows up to Bloomington and was flagged as having been reworked into a survivor. The work to the untrained eye was flawless but its a manufactured survivor. I'd own the thing in 1 second please don't think I'm bashing. OEM side pipes and tags too. Great colors. The concern, however, is that when you try to bring it to a Corvette show and falsify its 'untouched condition' - risky business.

In the world of Corvettes (and I believe also in Vintage Certification world), the manufactured survivors do not compare to those untouched.

Dan

[cook_dw]

Does anyone remember when driving these cars was fun and no one cared if something was 100% correct or original but more excited about getting them out and enjoying them..??.. WTF happened.. lol

[Lee Stewart]

Originally Posted by cook_dw

Does anyone remember when driving these cars was fun and no one cared if something was 100% correct or original but more excited about getting them out and enjoying them..??.. WTF happened.. lol

Sure. I remember when they were just cars. I got my drivers license in May of 1968. Bought a 1964 327/300 HP powerglide equipped Impala SS convertible. Paid $650 for it. Drove it all summer and took it with me to college. Sold it for $500 and bought a 1967 Triple Black SS396 Chevelle with 4 speed, buckets and a console for $900. It had dog dish hubcaps which I didn't like at all. One of the guys in my dorm had a 1968 GTO which he added chrome mag wheels to. I offered him $50 for the Rally II wheels with redline tires. Put them on my Chevelle.

[firstgenaddict]

COBRA's FERRARI's ASTON's MASERATTI's all leave much more wiggle room $$$ for the fakery... The vettes have only recently reached 7 figures. There were Duesenbergs bringing 7 figs in the late 80's so the actual money value now is less than at that time... though still significant.

[KENNY PASCOE]

I am by far a survivor fan . However , In the world of it there are plenty of guys out there who are looking to make a car look the part and are making it happen and fooling most of if not all who inspect it . There are guys out there who perform magic melting in lacquer to make paint work look original and undetectable . If the effort is there and is and is as such undetectable I'm ok with it . i always say there is a story to every car and if we heard most of them we probably wouldn't be buying them . There is mystique to every one of them ... KP

[black69]

I think it is important that if a survivor /original condition car has been out there for a while, odds are it is legit. New finds coming out of the woodwork, never seen before, pose the need for more scrutiny.

I can see enhancements coming in checking for frauds down the road, as values are likely still heading north, although the super high dollar survivors are likely mostly all known.

[Big Block Bill]

Originally Posted by RPOLS3

I remember a pretty nice silver/black 67, 435 coupe that we took the body off (did not touch the body, paint, glass, or interior) and fluffed the chassis to make it look "old". Someone who knew what they were looking at could tell it was not untouched, but most run of the mill car show people had no clue. This was back in the 1989-90 timeframe. At the time I was in awe how it turned out as 99% of the work being done then was overly perfect restorations.

I believe the car you are talking about was owned by a Greg Donaldson. He found the car through David Burroughs. it went Survivor / Gold / Benchmark in 1992? If it was that car, I always remembered the de-lamination of the windshield, and thought to myself "Why don't they replace that?". Because it was "Original " to the car. It did have factory side pipes as well.

Bill

[427TJ]

Originally Posted by WILMASBOYL78

Interesting thread...people spend tons of money for plastic surgery to look young again...car folks spend the same money to make their ride look old.

So, if the owner looks younger than the car looks old...beware

Great hobby...always a new wrinkle [sorry, we can fix that too]

-wilma

Everyone wants the untouched virgin, not the one who has been passed around with the sketchy history. Cars, that is.