yenko camaro

[P.J.]

[ QUOTE ]
The '68 COPO Yenko Camaros were the first ever hi-po Camaros ordered by Yenko to use as a platform for the 427 program. Specially designed parts were used in these cars. A 140 MPH speedo, a very large for the time 1 1/16inch sway bar, As a matter of fact these were worded by GM as Yenko Sports Car Conversion 9737. Special MV code 396/375 that was emission tested with the 427 engine program in mind. Without these cars, there would most likely be no 427 COPO Camaro as we now it today. These cars used the unique "Magic Mirror" trim plates to further separate them from NORMAL 396 cars. @ 70 units were sent to Yenko, not counting prototypes. This number was chosen for the 50 units NHRA needed to classify these cars for competition. Yenko was considered the manufacturer on these cars. So why are these cars considered rare to some? I guess most users of the Yenko board think that way..BKH

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks Brian
that explains it well.
PJ

[jerry67]

I would think a dealer trade would be very possible the dealerships were only a few miles apart and both raced vettes at cumberland airport

[Unreal]

I was at Pitt in the late 60's and remember the Pgh Press had ads all the time for engines and wheels. (maybe wheels and tires)

[Les Quam]

Multi Mopars,
Very good analysis you made when you compared the forty eight 1968 GSS 440/375 HP Darts that Mr. Norm was able to convince Dodge/Hurst to build exclusively for Mr. Norm with the 1968 COPO Yenko Camaro's built by GM exclusively for Don Yenko.

Not so many people are aware of those rare 1968 Mopars that Mr. Norm dreamed up to compete with the big block Camaro's built by GM and modified by Don Yenko and others in 1968.

Most people are only vaguely aware Dodge built 440 Darts in 1969 to compete with GM let alone the 1968 GSS 440 cars?

I too grew up in Chicago listening to Mr. Norms ads on WLS. The only other popular rock station I can remember at the time was WCFL. Never thought as I listened to those ads that I would pay equal to what a house costs today to own one of those cars?

[bashton]

[ QUOTE ]
Multi Mopars,
Very good analysis you made when you compared the forty eight 1968 GSS 440/375 HP Darts that Mr. Norm was able to convince Dodge/Hurst to build exclusively for Mr. Norm with the 1968 COPO Yenko Camaro's built by GM exclusively for Don Yenko.

Not so many people are aware of those rare 1968 Mopars that Mr. Norm dreamed up to compete with the big block Camaro's built by GM and modified by Don Yenko and others in 1968.

Most people are only vaguely aware Dodge built 440 Darts in 1969 to compete with GM let alone the 1968 GSS 440 cars?

I too grew up in Chicago listening to Mr. Norms ads on WLS. The only other popular rock station I can remember at the time was WCFL. Never thought as I listened to those ads that I would pay equal to what a house costs today to own one of those cars?

[/ QUOTE ]

AND...you will be able to relive some of those memories at the MCACN show, as Dick Biondi will be reminiscing with Mr. Norm live, Saturday November 21st!

Bashton
MCACN Managing Member

[MultiMopars]

[ QUOTE ]
Multi Mopars,
Very good analysis you made when you compared the forty eight 1968 GSS 440/375 HP Darts that Mr. Norm was able to convince Dodge/Hurst to build exclusively for Mr. Norm with the 1968 COPO Yenko Camaro's built by GM exclusively for Don Yenko.

Not so many people are aware of those rare 1968 Mopars that Mr. Norm dreamed up to compete with the big block Camaro's built by GM and modified by Don Yenko and others in 1968.

Most people are only vaguely aware Dodge built 440 Darts in 1969 to compete with GM let alone the 1968 GSS 440 cars?

I too grew up in Chicago listening to Mr. Norms ads on WLS. The only other popular rock station I can remember at the time was WCFL. Never thought as I listened to those ads that I would pay equal to what a house costs today to own one of those cars?

[/ QUOTE ]


Yeah, I wondered after I made the comparision how many people would actually understand what the comparision was really all about.

Actually, what Norm was asking for was not a car to compete with the Yenko 427 cars but rather for something to compete with the 396/375 Novas. The Ebodies weren't produced until 1970 so back in 68 they had no pony car or no small car/big engine combo to compete with the HP smaller cars.

Your right about the 48 cars as well. Supposedly the other two of the 50 were diverted to another dealer or two.

The GSS emblems (Grand Spalding Sport) were intalled at Mr. Norm's Grand Spalding Dodge and the simply replaces the "T" of the GTS with another factory "S"

As I recall WCFL was FM and came about after the reversal of AM becoming the talk radio that FM had been previously.

I go back a little further and can remember Dick Clark in 1957 on WLS before he was fired for telling a dirty joke on air. The career move that REALLY changed his life for the better.

[black69]

all I can say, on the mr norms premium aspect, I would have to think for a while on a trade of my 440 4 brl 4spd challenger in the attachment, straight up for a 6 pack version from a no name dealer. In my case the car had a street history (original owner still in town) and it beat his buddies LS6 chevelle at local skipps hangout in chicago. Mr norm himself told him, the 4 brl was a better street racer over the 6 pack (and tried to push an automatic on him with it). never the less, some of these mopars mr norm had were ordered in cool color combos. Mine has the white v top, white side stripes, black out hood, and black interior. I beleive there was more to his dealership than just the dyno side, he was actually enabling street racers with the right stuff, and some of his cars were ordered for that purpose. my 2 cents.

[HPMIKE]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you have mis-interpeted what I was trying to say.

It is funny that you use the example of a Mr. norm's hemi car. It makes no difference WHAT dealer sold a car like that unless it has something to do with that dealer had something to do with it being something different than a car that any other dealer could have sold.

The difference with a Yenko conversion car or a Yenko COPO car is that they were the first ones to DO it or realize they could make such an order. therefore they were only done buy them. It is what the car actually WAS, not the DEALER that happened to THINK of it or do it.

Anyone that "buys into" the idea that a car is worth more because it was something that was order/sold sold by a particular DEALER that was also available from any other dealer that sold the same thing is just kidding themselves. There were dealers all over the country that sold those same cars.

Now if you were comparing it to something like a 1968 Mr. Norm's GSS (the car that set the stage for the later 1969 440 Darts) it would be a comparable example to a Yenko early conversion or later COPO that Yenko as well as a few other dealers that also ordered COPO cars it would be a like comparision.

The 1968 GSS was ONLY available from Mr. Norm's and therefore makes it something "special" with regards to the dealer it came from simply because he was the only one offering them. He had to commit to buy a minimum of 50 before Chrysler would build them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree 100%

The Mr. Norm cars are somewhat unique, but as was stated most of the cars that sold out of that dealership were little more than any other car that could have been bought from any other dealer. A little known fact is that there were "super tuners" at MANY dealerships back in the day. They would set up cars for customers all the time.

I am not trying to belittle the heritage of Mr. Norm, but it was a well known fact that Norm was a marketing guy that was cashing in on the musclecar craze at the time. Absollutely nothing wrong with that. But if he told anyone that a 4 barrel equipped car was a better car (street or strip), then he is just flat out wrong. The factory 6 packs were a HUGE upgrade over the iron intake 4V setup. In fact, until the 6 pack version of the 440 wedge was intro'd, the 440-4V really wasn't that hot, at least when compared with aluminum headed high compression BB Chevy's or Ram Air II/IV Pontiacs, Stage I Buicks, etc. The pre 6 pack 440's were actually pretty much the same motor you would find in the average Newport or Fury. One of the main reasons for this I am sure was to not outdo the legendary Hemi. Once Chrysler saw that the public just wasn't buying the amount of Hemi cars as they planned, they quickly came up with a motor in the 6 pack that would be cheaper, easier to run for the masses- and the rest is history.

MB

[black69]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think you have mis-interpeted what I was trying to say.

It is funny that you use the example of a Mr. norm's hemi car. It makes no difference WHAT dealer sold a car like that unless it has something to do with that dealer had something to do with it being something different than a car that any other dealer could have sold.

The difference with a Yenko conversion car or a Yenko COPO car is that they were the first ones to DO it or realize they could make such an order. therefore they were only done buy them. It is what the car actually WAS, not the DEALER that happened to THINK of it or do it.

Anyone that "buys into" the idea that a car is worth more because it was something that was order/sold sold by a particular DEALER that was also available from any other dealer that sold the same thing is just kidding themselves. There were dealers all over the country that sold those same cars.

Now if you were comparing it to something like a 1968 Mr. Norm's GSS (the car that set the stage for the later 1969 440 Darts) it would be a comparable example to a Yenko early conversion or later COPO that Yenko as well as a few other dealers that also ordered COPO cars it would be a like comparision.

The 1968 GSS was ONLY available from Mr. Norm's and therefore makes it something "special" with regards to the dealer it came from simply because he was the only one offering them. He had to commit to buy a minimum of 50 before Chrysler would build them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree 100%

The Mr. Norm cars are somewhat unique, but as was stated most of the cars that sold out of that dealership were little more than any other car that could have been bought from any other dealer. A little known fact is that there were "super tuners" at MANY dealerships back in the day. They would set up cars for customers all the time.

I am not trying to belittle the heritage of Mr. Norm, but it was a well known fact that Norm was a marketing guy that was cashing in on the musclecar craze at the time. Absollutely nothing wrong with that. But if he told anyone that a 4 barrel equipped car was a better car (street or strip), then he is just flat out wrong. The factory 6 packs were a HUGE upgrade over the iron intake 4V setup. In fact, until the 6 pack version of the 440 wedge was intro'd, the 440-4V really wasn't that hot, at least when compared with aluminum headed high compression BB Chevy's or Ram Air II/IV Pontiacs, Stage I Buicks, etc. The pre 6 pack 440's were actually pretty much the same motor you would find in the average Newport or Fury. One of the main reasons for this I am sure was to not outdo the legendary Hemi. Once Chrysler saw that the public just wasn't buying the amount of Hemi cars as they planned, they quickly came up with a motor in the 6 pack that would be cheaper, easier to run for the masses- and the rest is history.

MB

[/ QUOTE ]

I do see you point above, and mostly agree. One would think a 4 brl 440 was not in the league as a six pack, no doubt there. But from from weekly racing, there was an aspect of keeping the carbs tuned. My car was rejetted at mr norms, they popped in a purple cam, it had headers added, and was on the dyno often (they guy lived across the street from mr norms). To me, Mr Norm was pushing on this 19yr old kid, at engine setup in his famous GSS dart (a 440 4brl (but with auto)). This 19 yr old kid rebadged as a 340 and made his car payments and insurance payments (which were even higher than the car payment) street racing it. No doubt, as the original owner said, you had to know how to beat a hemi, and the 6 packs out there. all those cars were out there on the street, LS6s, L78s, hemis (some of them easily out of optimum tune, which is part of my point). I give a lot of credit to mr norm's guys that ordered the cars, and then the guys that helped tune them over and over, more than mr norm himself. And the fact you could outfit your car there was pretty cool. Mr norm himself, is really a marketing guy, but there was more to his dealership than himself.

[Chevy454]

How out of shape would a 6-bbl car have to be to be taken by a 4-bbl car, because from *my* vantage point (from the opposite lane!) those are 2 *very* different animals! Honestly, it ain't the 4-bbl cars that keep me awake at night...