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  #21  
Old 07-30-2011, 01:20 AM
Paul_S Paul_S is offline
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Default Re: Vintage Pontiac Pics

StealthBird,

Great engine shots and info. Is there any more out there especially of the fuel injection? Would like to also know what has survived. A bunch of neat stuff was in the works but the racing ban and emissions getting tighter (and redirecting development attention) killed a bunch.

Paul
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  #22  
Old 07-30-2011, 01:49 AM
StealthBird StealthBird is offline
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Default Re: Vintage Pontiac Pics

Pontiac built 3 SOHC 421ci engines in the early '60s. The photo I posted earlier was the one engine that survived, and was presented to Chief Engine Engineer Malcolm McKellar upon his retirement. McKellar had it placed into his personal 1963 Grand Prix, and it's running to this day. McKellar said that during the testing, the SOHC 421 engines produced around 625 hp and were capable of turning 7,000 rpm.



What's really cool about this engine is that this isn't a tri-power setup on top, it was an an experimental single six-barrel unit that Pontiac Engineering tested for the 1967 model year. But when GM pulled the plug on multiple carbs, this setup was shelved.

Below is another view of the SOHC 421 I posted earlier, the one with the belt driven, rear mounted cam drives. Check out the exotic fuel injection setup.
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  #23  
Old 07-30-2011, 03:41 AM
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Default Re: Vintage Pontiac Pics

StealthBird, what were the differences between the late 50's Pontiac fuel injection and the Chevrolet unit? Was the Pontiac Rochester sourced? Any websites that discuss the Pontiac F.I. in any detail? It seems like all the discussion is about the Chevy unit and the Pontiac gets lost in the shuffle. I know the F.I. pictured above isn't a production unit, it just got me wonderin'.
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Old 07-30-2011, 05:20 AM
StealthBird StealthBird is offline
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Default Re: Vintage Pontiac Pics

The Chevy and Pontiac setups were both made by Rochester Products, and were similar. The main difference being in the manifold design, and the fuel-meter locations. The Pontiac manifold had longer runners, giving a ram effect, and was stronger in the low and mid-range areas. The Pontiac setup made a respectable 310 hp from 347 cubes, but unfortunately pushed the heaviest car in Pontiac's lineup. A 57 Chieftain with the tri-power was actually quicker than the 57 Bonneville.

All 630 of the 1957 Bonnevilles were fuel injected, all convertibles, and all of them were loaded up with every available factory option, which again made them the heaviest of the Pontiacs.

The 57's typically sell for $120K-$200K now, one of the most expensive collector cars out there.

This is a 58 unit, but the runners and fuel inlets were the same as in 57. Biggest difference between the 57 Chevy F.I. and 57 Pontiac F.I. was the plenum, and runner length. Pics are from an old post on the Corvette Forum.




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  #25  
Old 07-30-2011, 05:29 AM
Paul_S Paul_S is offline
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Default Re: Vintage Pontiac Pics

I remember reading about his retirement, the engine gift and his '63. The single 6-brl carb was a neat way to cheat the system. I wonder how much FI development knowledge he had and whether he had any hardware.

All production Pontiac FI units shared the same basic design and some components as units used for Chevrolet (Pass) and Corvette. Their main difference was the "Turkey Roaster" sheet metal enclosure they were housed in on the Pontiacs. All were/are Rochester units.
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Old 07-30-2011, 07:07 AM
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Default Re: Vintage Pontiac Pics

-----The 57 Pontiac plenums were made up from sheet-metal unlike the 58s which, as you can see, are cast. Chevrolet paved the way but Pontiac wasnt far behind in all this early (US) fuel injection stuff. The problem, as Stealth has said, was that Pontiac didnt expand the program out to some of the lighter bodied models. It might not have mattered though as almost all the Pontiacs in 57 weighed a bunch, and Chevrolet had the Corvette as its P.R. machine as well as its H.P. machine. As well, G.M. was already well into the cubic inch wars as an easy, cheap way to make thier sleds go faster, as was Ford and Chrysler.
-----All the 57 Bonnevilles were white with red or blue or black accents except for (I think) two which were black. One had red trim and one had baby-blue trim. I can guarantee the one with the B-B trim as a friend of mine and I hauled it out of Chicago in original, forlorn condition in 1974. I havent a clue where it is today but it is surely worth a TON!.....Bill S
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Old 07-30-2011, 05:00 PM
Paul_S Paul_S is offline
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Default Re: Vintage Pontiac Pics

Bill,

Correct on the '57 PMD FI. At the time, FI was a gamble and there was truly caution in the GM groups as far as its performance (both mechanically and sales) and not hurting any PR lines. The Corvette was a low production sports car that GM was willing to gamble with as well as some special models in the GM Pass car line. -They were probably under a bunch of pressure with the '57 Chevy to not give them a black eye. The big story behind it all was that Rochester was was working with all GM groups and GM would have loved to put it across the board but some of the Cold/Hot start and Hot Idle issues scared the others off until it was more refined. They waited, towards the end of it all they were still not pleased and with emissions tightening it died.

Here is a pic of a '57 unit from ebay:

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File Type: jpg 26401.jpg (112.4 KB, 710 views)
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  #28  
Old 07-30-2011, 07:51 PM
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Default Re: Vintage Pontiac Pics

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StealthBird</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
All 630 of the 1957 Bonnevilles were fuel injected, all convertibles, and all of them were loaded up with every available factory option, which again made them the heaviest of the Pontiacs.

The 57's typically sell for $120K-$200K now, one of the most expensive collector cars out there.
</div></div>

I recently inspected a Black LS6 Chevelle for a customer and there was one of these in the owners collection. NEAT car to say the least and I had never heard of them prior to seeing it.
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  #29  
Old 07-30-2011, 08:14 PM
StealthBird StealthBird is offline
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Default Re: Vintage Pontiac Pics

An odd thing about this first year Bonneville is that there's only one pair of Bonneville emblems on the outside of the car, at the rear 1/4 panels. The front fenders and trunk lid had huge &quot;Fuel Injection&quot; script emblems. Considering the Bonneville was a brand new model, you would think Pontiac would want people to know it's called Bonneville. But with all the publicity Chevrolet and Pontiac received about their new fuel injection, just seeing the &quot;Fuel Injection&quot; emblems were enough for the public to know this was the new Pontiac flagship luxury performance car.
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File Type: jpg 26409.jpg (98.3 KB, 385 views)
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  #30  
Old 07-30-2011, 08:49 PM
StealthBird StealthBird is offline
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Default Re: Vintage Pontiac Pics

The 57 Bonneville is also of great historical significance, as it was the car that brought the Pontiac Motor Division out of their stuffy image of the 40's and 50's into the their new role as GM's high performance division. Bunkie Knudsen arrived at Pontiac in 1956, and he immediately changed Pontiac's image. Using the newly revised 1955 Pontiac V8, he began pumping the parts bins full of high-perf equipment, from dual quads to aluminum parts, from drag racing parts to NASCAR items, he quickly transformed Pontiac into GM's high-perf division. For 1957, he brought out the fuel injected Bonneville as a statement.

Keeping this in the theme of this thread (vintage pics), here's the 57 Bonneville at the auto show.
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File Type: jpg 26410.jpg (117.8 KB, 383 views)
File Type: jpg 26411.jpg (115.9 KB, 382 views)
File Type: jpg 26413.jpg (115.1 KB, 382 views)
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