King of the Muscle Cars

[Lee Stewart]

King of the muscle cars: 1969 A12 Road Runner/Super Bee.

All you had to order as far as options was a radio. Car came standard with:

440+6 Engine
4 speed or TorqueFlite ($39 extra)
4.10 Dana Posi Rear
HD 11" Drum Brakes
HD 15" Wheels
HD 26" Radiator
G70x15 Redline Polyglas Tires
A hood scoop that actually worked

$3800 including AM radio and destination charge

[DW31S]

Can't argue much with that last post.

[bigsixman]

I think that if you take it from the dealership to the track, the 69 1/2 A12 Mopars were the strongest that I ever ran across. The ZL-1, L-78 and LS-6 cars had bad tires, shifters, suspensions and the smog tuning held them back.

I believe that time and memories have been kind to the stage 1 Buicks as they never ran that hard when new. Go back and look at the old road tests and they will confirm my thoughts. I had friends with a new 70 stage 1 Buick and another with a 70 1/2 Z/28 and the Z/28 won in 2 straight by 2 lengths. In fairness to each, the Z/28 had 3.73 gears and a 4 spd and the Buick had 3.42s and a T-400 and both had the F-60 x 15" tires. They even went at it for top end by hitting it at a 80 mph roll and the Z/28 won that one too.

The Muscle Car Review shootout article in the mid 80s between a hemi Roadrunner and a 70 Stage 1 Buick changed the thoughts on Stage 1 Buicks for a lot of people. I had the opportunity to talk to a passenger who rode to Gainesville in the Stage 1 for the shootout, and he made it very plain to me that the Buick was far from stock.

The hemi cars usually never ran that good on the street either until 1970 when they went to the hydraulic cam and 60 series tires. The earlier hemi cars on the street were usually out of tune and most had poor gearing.

Most of the early muscle cars usually had a poor ignition system which held them back until the plugs were changed out for fresh ones. This would make a huge difference on how the car ran, it usually depended on how fresh the tune was on the car.

The other factor was the ability of the drivers. I watched a lot of cars get beat because the driver did not have the ability of the other driver in the other lane.

This controversy will never end, but my money would be on the A12 Mopars because of assembly line tires, suspension, gearing, exhaust system and the overall combination flat worked on the street. I am not a Mopar fan, but I think they won the stock production title of "King of the Muscle Cars".

[marxjunk]

for some mopar people the A12 might be the king...maybe..but its overshadowed by the Hemi ...just an opinion, not an argument

[marxjunk]

TIME IS KIND TO ALL THINGS WE LOVE AND ENJOY...and with age, the story gets better all the time....i dont care wh ya are

[PxTx]

The comment about driver talent is important. None of these cars guaranteed a win. I can't even think of a situation where a car with stock tires and an excellent driver would be relevant in the real world. That just sounds like a magazine article or sales propaganda.

[Lee Stewart]

IMO - two things that were important for a muscle car: gearing and the driver. Most muscle cars came with 3.55 gears, even the high horsepower cars. You look at all the road test from the 1960s and very few had optimum gearing (3.90 - 4.11). Most were in the 3.23 - 3.55 range.

As for the driver - it mainly applied to manual shift cars. When Chrysler held their "shootout" for their new A12 they had a couple of "regular guys" and Ronnie Sox. Sox was ALWAYS a few tenths lower than the other guys. When Chrysler decided to see what a pure stock A12 could do they removed the entire air cleaner assembly and Ronnie Sox shifted without the clutch at 5200 RPM (which Chrysler engineers told Sox was the best shift point) and posted a 12.91 ET. With the ACA = 13.00

[iluv69s]

Hands down...ZL-1.... Unless another manufacturer made a factory built racecar with all aluminum motor

[Lee Stewart]

Originally Posted by iluv69s

Hands down...ZL-1.... Unless another manufacturer made a factory built racecar with all aluminum motor

But that's just it - the 1969 ZL1 really wasn't a muscle car. It was a purpose built race car and an expensive one at that. Plus you had to add tube headers and run with no exhaust system for the car to reach it's optimum performance level. Run it on the street as delivered from the factory - be prepared to lose a lot of street races. And it was made in a very limited quantity. Cars like the L78s, LS6s, A12s, Hemi cars etc were made by the thousands and almost anyone could afford one let alone walk into a dealership and buy one.

If you include the ZL1 Camaros then you have to include the 1965 A990 Race Hemi Chryslers that would beat any muscle car INCLUDING the ZL1s

[SS4Real]

Many automotive magazines and muscle car reviews have often considered the 1970 Chevelle SS in general the all-American Muscle car. It was fast for the day, muscular looking and affordable and available to the masses. As far as the King of the muscle cars, there are a handful that would compete for that title. I grew up in So Cal where the car culture was huge. Most of us favored Camaro's, Mustang's or Chevelle's. Mopar's (especially the winged versions) were rare. I would say the all-American moniker is accurate, however, the title of King will always be up for debate. It took years before the legends were made and their subsequent prices and collectibility status have influenced that title.