Whereabouts of Grumpy Jenkin's Camaro Toy IV

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Pro Stock John

Love it..

.....

[Too Many Projects]

Seems this is already old news, but I didn't think the "pumpkin" was T-4, since it had a vinyl top. Who would add a vinyl top to a race car ?
PSJ, hope you can track this down from all the recent info you've acquired.

[RichSchmidt]

It was great talking to you last night John.

Here are a few things that might ruffle some feathers

I spoke to Carmen Rotonda about the car. He said that when Heavy bought the car the engine blew up. Carmen owned his own national record holding Modified Production car and says that he and Heavy traded cars. At that point Carmen had the Jenkins car. He says they painted the cars to look like the swap never happened and Heavy continued to tell people it was the Jenkins car.

When the FEDs arrested Heavy they confiscated all his cars but witnesses say the Camaro was not one of them. One source said that Heavy had the car at his "down south" house. If the swap story is true then the car he was hiding was Rotunda's old car.

Heavy authenticated the car shortly before his death (late 2000's) based on pictures from when Algeri owned the car.

The real Jenkins car had a VIN and trim tag and a very prominent member of the Nostalgia Pro Stock community claims to know the number. If the car didn't have a VIN when Algeri bought it it may have been removed to prevent the FEDs from taking it.

The Algeri car went to Kentucky and then to North Carolina where it was painted black with 2 white stripes and owned by Wild Man. Wild man died in a car wreck (not in the Camaro)and his father kept the car and supposedly still has it.

As for authenticating the car without a VIN and trim tag it would require that the car had at least the partial hidden VIN on the firewall. From there you could add the first digits since we already know the car is a 2 door coupe and send the number to the NCRS and see if they can find what dealer the car was shipped to when new IMO if there is no partial VIN I would not trust any authentication of the car.

Wild man's father is well into his 80's which matches the identity of the guy that John Ryan heard about. I have a friend who knows how to contact Wildman's father I am just waiting to hear back.

[Pro Stock John]

Got a referral from a highly credible person, and I left a message for the person who reportedly owns it or had owned it in recent years.

As far as IV turning into the Pumpkin and in the process getting a vinyl top, it's a long time theory and I'm trying to be very open minded about the different theories.

If readers don't mind me rambling a bit here are some of the theories around IV.

Pumpkin become IV
-It's plausible, it's pretty much accepted Heavy bought IV. I struggle with the idea that Heavy added a vinyl top to a car but hey find a person who was there to share a testimony.

IV eventually became the Algieri Racing car
-It's plausible, it's accepted that the Algieri car was purchased from Bob Veniero who had purchased it from Carmen Rotonda or Frank Carnisacola of F&J Speed Shop. Carmen drove for Heavy and it sounds like wrenched on the cars too.

Algieri car is not IV
-And this theory has been brought up in some of my calls with folks. The simple version of this theory is the Algieri car was Carmen's own Camaro and not IV. I like the simplicity of that theory, it's known Carmen had 2 Camaros he himself has said in a past post on FB he did. But then you ask yourself, if the Algieri car was not IV then who ended up with IV when Carmen sold it.

I had talked to Joe via FB and I'll follow up with him again. I'd really like to talk to Carmen. If anyone is a buddy of his and could make an introduction please PM. I'll keep it under 15 minutes and respectful.


My only agenda here is putting some theories to rest and make sure we have a fact based view of the history.

[RichSchmidt]

Originally Posted by Too Many Projects

Seems this is already old news, but I didn't think the "pumpkin" was T-4, since it had a vinyl top. Who would add a vinyl top to a race car ?
PSJ, hope you can track this down from all the recent info you've acquired.

I think the black roof on Heavy's 68 Camaro was painted. It was probably done to match his other Wild Pumpkin which was a Baldwin Motion car that actually had a vinyl roof from day one. Heavy's 70 Camaro street car named Heavy's Baby was a Dick Harrel 454 street car that also came with a vinyl top. That said, I don't know if the orange and black car is the ex-Jenkins car since even though it is call such in some publications Heavy did continue to call the ex-Rotunda car the Jenkins car after the swap.

[Too Many Projects]

Originally Posted by RichSchmidt

I think the black roof on Heavy's 68 Camaro was painted. It was probably done to match his other Wild Pumpkin which was a Baldwin Motion car that actually had a vinyl roof from day one. Heavy's 70 Camaro street car named Heavy's Baby was a Dick Harrel 454 street car that also came with a vinyl top. That said, I don't know if the orange and black car is the ex-Jenkins car since even though it is call such in some publications Heavy did continue to call the ex-Rotunda car the Jenkins car after the swap.

Look closely at the pic in post 20 and you can see, what appears to me, to be the seam leading back from the windshield. Did he have it added to match his other cars ??
Is there any history on that car, how it was originally built and where it came from ? Knowing that could dispel, or affirm, rumors too.

[Pro Stock John]

For those following along, Richie and I talked again today and went over all of the information.

The guy I was referred to for IV does not have it but a few folks though he did because he's had some race first gen Camaros and is in the right state. But the name Richie has is highly promising which is great. So we're hoping he can get connected to the person and then follow up, let's hope it happens! At the very least it would be great if there was a way to verify what the car is, whether it's IV, Carmen's old car, or something else. Also don't know at this point what remains of the past chassis work on the car.

[Pro Stock John]

Carmen got back to me today. He clarified the ownership history of the car and I've amended that in the first post.

Grumpy > Heavy / Carmen > in between guy > Joe Algieri.

I had chatted a bit with Joe and I covered some stuff with him a week ago. Here is a quick rundown of points:
-He bought from someone in between.
-He removed the hideway nose off the car (at this point I don't think it included the fenders), and sold it to someone in NJ. It was acid dipped and in rough shape. He ran Modified Production so he ran a regular headlight nose because the headlight had to work. He did not want to add the weight but had to.
-Has pictured from when he was stripping off the paint (what color I wonder), and the Grumpy letter was underneath other paint.
-He stripped the chrome off the bumpers and painted them.
-He shaved the rear back up lights.
-He removed the gas filler neck.

[Pro Stock John]

Do you know who I would like to meet as a result of this research?

Carmine Rotonda. Guy is super cool.

Thank you again Mr. Rotonda for answering my final round of questions.

Me: What color changes did IV go through when you guys had it?

Carmine: Got the car from Grump it was white. Painted it orange and it stayed that way for a couple of months. Then he painted it with his green color scheme. Most of the time it was green.

Me: Settle the controversy once and for all, black painted top? Vinyl top?

Carmine: Black vinyl top.


So right from the man himself.

[PeteLeathersac]

‘

Here’s a batch of Toy 1V pics I had saved, sorry some are a bit blurry but the more the better as any view may be useful trying to ID something specific later.
Best of luck back-tracking, sounds like some good leads also very cool you’ve hooked up w/ Carm Rotonda!

~ Pete

.