Unique Shelby Convertible for sale - Page 2

Stuart Adams · #11 11-19-2005, 11:54 PM

Great info Les. Hope to see you in Vegas some day. I have #76 now, you going to the show in Vegas early next year?

Les Quam · #12 11-20-2005, 04:33 AM

Stuart,

Are you referring to 5S076? If so you got one fantastic car. I missed owning it by a day because I am an idiot.

Stuart Adams · #13 11-20-2005, 06:41 AM

Yes.

**rich p** · #14 11-20-2005, 06:44 PM

WOW !!! Now thats real information, need to know information.What would make someone sell parts off a concours car! My mouth hit the floor on this information on a car of this caliber.Great car gone Bad !!
I have learn you still need to check even the Best of the Best car.
Sold a Boss 429 a few years back that was a concours car with NO fluids from a very well known restorer and when fluids were put in the car, it just poured out of the block.What a lesson learned !!

Les Quam · #15 11-20-2005, 08:53 PM

I have been offered 20K for the NOS exhaust on my 70 Boss 9 as well as 6K for the shocks. We have calculated the parts alone on my 70 Boss 9 are worth over 225K right now as it is a Thoroughbred gold and MCA authenticity award winner the only Boss 9 in MCA history to have won both awards. In the Ford world original NOS parts are like gold similiar to the Bloomington Gold Corvette original cars the Ford MCA guys place great value and prestige on their Thoroughbred class so the parts sell for stupid money. (Rich I realize you know all of this already anyway but I did this post for some that possibly didn't know).

As a result most Thoroughbred cars have their parts sold as they go from owner to owner over the years. There is a dealer down south who specilaizes in buying Thoroughbreds and stripping the parts then reselling the cars as a Thoroughbred. I know of three Thoroughbreds this dealer has stripped and resold. So it is important IMHO to realize that a Thoroughbred award is a moment in time and while the restoration may endure and the car will ALWAYS be a MCA Gold concours car which is still quite an accomplishment the same car may not have the parts still on it that made it a Thorougbred any longer.

For example at the last MCA Grand National this past labor day in Ohio I entered my 65 Shelby GT 350 and it won a Thoroughbred Gold and was the second 65 GT 350 to do so in MCA history (Stuart's #76 being the first). It then was rejudged for a total of about four hours of review by four judges and won an authenticity award the first 65 GT 350 in MCA history to win the authenticity award along with a Thoroughbred. In order to win an Authenticity award I needed 5 original Goodyear Blue Dots. Blue Dots are next to impossible to find so I own some and borrowed some. I have to give the Blue Dots I borrowed back unless I can convince my friend to sell them to me. The point is many times the parts are impossible to find and friends loan parts to friends to get the Thoroughbred award then they leave the car and that car is no longer at the Thoroughbred level. It is also virtually impossible to drive a true Thoroughbred because the parts get worn out and then the car again is not a Thoroughbred level car any longer.

Another example we are preparing a 1969 Mustang CV with the 428 Cobra Jet engine and the shaker hood option with a 4 speed trans for next years MCA show circuit. It was already restored to an incredible high level and is an MCA concours Gold winner. But in order to get it to Thoroughbred authentic level we are borrowing a few original parts from my other 69 428 shaker hood 4 speed mustang CV which already won an MCA concours Gold and has a bunch of original and NOS parts so that one can win all the marbles.

My point is that it is going to take two MCA concours Gold mustangs to win possibly one Thoroughbred authentic award. That's how tough it is to find all the correct parts and is why parts get sold.

I recently asked the senior MCA judge for authenticity how many actual and true Thoroughbred cars exist today and he thinks less than 12. The MCA is in the process of compliling a Thoroughbred registry to help with this.

In fact only three cars exist today that have been awarded an MCA Thoroughbred and an Authenticity award. There have been four awards but one car a 66 mustang Cv has won twice. One Mustang restorer has two cars that would qualify but have not been judged.

So while the term Thoroughbred is tossed around quite frequently true Thoroughbreds are actually pretty rare. Thoroughbreds that have also won the auhtenticity award are simply scarce and can be counted on one hand.

We don't know if Chip's car is the one I have been following and even if it is the same car it is still a MCA Gold concours car and SAAC concours Gold car and with an amazingly rare color combo to boot it is certainly a car that should sell for a world record price.

But the car I mentioned is well known in the Ford world to have had the good parts sold off.

Racefan · #16 11-20-2005, 10:10 PM

This is exactly the type of info I was hoping people would come forward with in the thread of certified cars that has drug on and on........

Great info, deserves to be shared to protect others.

**rich p** · #17 11-20-2005, 10:45 PM

Hey Les I dont understand the obsession on winning with a car with borrowed parts from another concours car.
Is that like the guy looking over someone's shoulder on exam day and copying his answers and being so proud that he got a A on the test ?? Did he really get an A ?

WE are ALL just curators of these cars for the next owner !

Les Quam · #18 11-20-2005, 11:07 PM

Rich,
I think my thought process was that I hope to buy the Blue Dots I borrowed from my friend or find some more in the future.

I am making one 69 428 Shaker CV a Thoroughbred and one a driver. Which is a big factor in owning a Thoroughbred the limited amount (if any) of driving.

Most of these Thoroughbreds are restored and never started at all. The MCA allows you to push it from the trailer to it's assigned spot. I disagree strongly with this MCA rule. IMHO they all must be able to be driven.

But the MCAs thought process is that some of the parts are so expensive now that starting a car with a 20K exhaust system and blowing a hole in the muffler when the carb backfires means you may never find another NOS exhaust system. So they are stuck in this quandry right now in that some cars are restored using NOS parts that are also date code correct meaning they are the correct year AND some restorations even have all parts with the correct year and dates built before the car was built for absolute correctness as if it just came off the assembly line. So finding correct parts to meet this obsessive criteria means the parts sometimes are more valuable then the car as a whole. So MCA allows restorers to push their cars at shows and not damage the impossible to find parts. I am not sure how the other makes of cars handle OE type restos?

Does anyone know how the original equipment corvettes are handled and if Chevy and Pontiac guys obsess to this level as the Ford guys do?

And yeah it's like cheating on an exam how do you think I got through school? LOL

**rich p** · #19 11-20-2005, 11:21 PM

Now that was funny [ And yeah it's like cheating on an exam how do you think I got through school? LOL]

I found out a long time ago that restamp and blank pads go threw the judging process, as if nothing is wrong.

**MosportGreen66** · #20 11-20-2005, 11:55 PM

It happens a lot more than you think. In the Chevy world too. I have borrowed wheels and tires for shows when the original knock off wheels were not finished with restoration. I know of a highly document/ '66 COPO Corvette (bc of interior/exterior color cobination) that has a near NOS off road (under car) exhaust system from a 1967 427/390 Vette. The owner of the '67 wanted some money back from the restoration fees and sold the exhaust system. It still had the original pipes, and even an ink stamp that says "Off Assembly" on the original mufflers. With all hardware and main dressing items like the chrome tail pipes with the mold seem on the bottom, he paid $2500 (and that was 3 years ago). I know of guys that exchange RC15 radiator caps and "VEN-TED" original gas caps for show cars all day long. To me this is NO different than buying an NOS original dual snorkle air cleaner assembly off ebay for $6500 or spending $500 on an original Delco oil filter. So what if the parts were once on a show car or not... same difference... after all when owners are done showcasing the restoration shop's job on the car you would think the owner would want to make it more streetable again... (but thats another thread)...