*hotrods*
newbie
Reged: 01/11/06
Posts: 20
Loc: kentucky
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The vin is 124379N614741 car is X44 paint code 72 (Hugger Orange)Car has factory 12 bolt, M21 dated late jan. 69 appears to be factory big block with correct mounts and heater core box.
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Hylton
Reged: 11/20/03
Posts: 719
Loc: Canada
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Check the stamped code on the rear end. Should be "BE". Also, any sign of a cowl hood?
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A bunch of Camaros
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Stefano
Reged: 10/06/01
Posts: 3899
Loc: Land of Lincoln
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That would be very early for a COPO Camaro, Non ZL1, Non Yenko Car?
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Kim_Howie
Reged: 06/05/00
Posts: 3038
Loc: Albia,Iowa
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I know of a 618xxx COPO 03d car
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Jake is my grandson!!
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*hotrods*
newbie
Reged: 01/11/06
Posts: 20
Loc: kentucky
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It appears that the car has had lots of mods on and off over the years. The build date is 03A, I just thought that it could possibly be a COPO due to the X44 code 72 and 12 bolt. Is there a vin listing of all the COPO's made??
Edited by *hotrods* (06/12/08 05:36 PM)
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Hylton
Reged: 11/20/03
Posts: 719
Loc: Canada
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No, not really. There is a list of known COPO cars but there are still a few that are unknown. You need to scrutinize the car. You also need to try and find out the history of the car. Like I said, check the code on the rear. Check for evidence of the car being a factory cowl hood car.
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A bunch of Camaros
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supercomp 8.90
enthusiast
Reged: 01/15/04
Posts: 243
Loc: sarasota, fla.
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i have in my notes two berger cars in the 608xxx range one a double copo, pm me the body # and i will check it out for you.
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William
addict
Reged: 06/09/01
Posts: 532
Loc: New Berlin WI USA
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Quote:
No, not really. There is a list of known COPO cars but there are still a few that are unknown.
A few?
Do the math - the production totals for L72 Camaro engines at Tonawanda have been known for years. 822 MN and 193 MO; 1,015 total. With an installation rate of maybe 95% that's 965 COPO Camaros. Less the 200 or so Yenkos leaves 765 COPOs sold through other dealers. The existing knowledge base covers half or less of the total.
There's a lot left to learn and a lot of unknown COPOs.
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Hylton
Reged: 11/20/03
Posts: 719
Loc: Canada
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I know of 5 guys up here who have COPO's that are not known by the enthusiast community. I'd imagine that once you account for those 'quiet' guys and cars already scrapped, there may be less than 50 left to be 'found'.
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A bunch of Camaros
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*hotrods*
newbie
Reged: 01/11/06
Posts: 20
Loc: kentucky
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Quote:
i have in my notes two berger cars in the 608xxx range one a double copo, pm me the body # and i will check it out for you.
I'm assuming that you are referring to the trim tag sequnce number???
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supercomp 8.90
enthusiast
Reged: 01/15/04
Posts: 243
Loc: sarasota, fla.
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yes
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William
addict
Reged: 06/09/01
Posts: 532
Loc: New Berlin WI USA
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There is another aspect to this no one has considered.
I have been to hundreds of cars shows over the 33 years I have messed with these things, usually with a notebook in hand recording data off '69s. At SC-Indy years ago I acquired data from a "restored" '69 Z/28. The car has a repro tag and a non-OE DZ motor; date way off. However the body number on the repro tag is in sequence with two other known Glockner Chev COPOs. It is possible this car [and others...] was purchased as a rolling shell with no engine/trans in the early '80s before much was known about COPOs. Since it had discs and a 12 bolt it was done up as a Z/28; the X11 or X44 tag went away. Other COPOs may have been restored as 396 Super Sports.
I will not reveal the VIN of the car in question. Hope the OE tag was retained.
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Hylton
Reged: 11/20/03
Posts: 719
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
There is another aspect to this no one has considered.
I have been to hundreds of cars shows over the 33 years I have messed with these things, usually with a notebook in hand recording data off '69s. At SC-Indy years ago I acquired data from a "restored" '69 Z/28. The car has a repro tag and a non-OE DZ motor; date way off. However the body number on the repro tag is in sequence with two other known Glockner Chev COPOs. It is possible this car [and others...] was purchased as a rolling shell with no engine/trans in the early '80s before much was known about COPOs. Since it had discs and a 12 bolt it was done up as a Z/28; the X11 or X44 tag went away. Other COPOs may have been restored as 396 Super Sports.
Can you imagine!  What a shame.
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A bunch of Camaros
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*hotrods*
newbie
Reged: 01/11/06
Posts: 20
Loc: kentucky
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That's crazy! Glockner Chevrolet is only 1 hour from me and used to be a customer of mine back in my 5/3 Bank days. I know Andy Glockner pretty well but I'm sure that he would laugh if I ask if he had information on a 1969 Camaro. He is all about selling and making money and not a collector.
Any way I will be posting the sequece number later today.
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HiHorse
enthusiast
Reged: 04/02/06
Posts: 216
Loc: Ontario
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Quote:
The car has a repro tag and a non-OE DZ motor; date way off. However the body number on the repro tag is in sequence with two other known Glockner Chev COPOs. It is possible this car [and others...] was purchased as a rolling shell with no engine/trans in the early '80s before much was known about COPOs. Since it had discs and a 12 bolt it was done up as a Z/28; the X11 or X44 tag went away. Other COPOs may have been restored as 396 Super Sports.
I will not reveal the VIN of the car in question. Hope the OE tag was retained.
Were body tags being reproduced in the early eighties?
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*hotrods*
newbie
Reged: 01/11/06
Posts: 20
Loc: kentucky
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Here is the body number NOR284254
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Kurt S
old hand
Reged: 08/01/00
Posts: 1101
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
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99.9% sure it's not a COPO.
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Kurt S - CRG
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supercomp 8.90
enthusiast
Reged: 01/15/04
Posts: 243
Loc: sarasota, fla.
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i dont have anything close to that area in my notes, kurt may be right.
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*hotrods*
newbie
Reged: 01/11/06
Posts: 20
Loc: kentucky
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Why do you think that it isn't? I not doubting you but according to some research there were some cars built around this time.
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William
addict
Reged: 06/09/01
Posts: 532
Loc: New Berlin WI USA
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For most 69s there is a rough correlation between the body number and the VIN. Cars were built in VIN sequence and body numbers sort of follow along.
This was not always true of COPOs, possibly due to batch assembly of BE axles. COPO body numbers nearly always lag 'normal' production by quite a bit. In addition L72 COPOs were typically ordered in quantity; 10, 20 at a time and their body numbers are frequently but not always in sequence. The first batch of Yenkos COPOs are in the VIN range N578xxx-N579xxx; body numbers seem to all be 202450-202550. Most other 69s in that VIN range have body numbers 219000-222000.
Your car is out of the COPO norm in that that there were very few non-Yenko COPOs produced at that time and the body number is in line with normal production.
Although I understand the logic behind the COPO body number theory there is enough data to prove it does not always apply. And, once again, the theory is based on less than half of the COPOs produced. The 50 Gibb ZL-1s were ordered at the same time in groups of 10 by color: 6 4-speeds and 4 automatics in Dusk Blue, Fathom Green, Cortez Silver, Le Mans Blue, Hugger Orange. One would think that is how they were built; not quite. The first two N568358 and N568359 Dusk Blue autos were moved up the production schedule [12E] and delivered 12/31/68 with body numbers 222002 and 222003. 222001 was the 14th car built [02D] but the first one ordered [NCJ016], a Le Mans blue 4-speed. The last Gibb ZL-1 ordered [NCJ065] has body number 240022 - go figure. Applying the COPO body number theory would rule this car out as a Gibb ZL-1 but it is real and well documented.
It gets better - the #3 ZL-1 from Berger Chev was the first ZL-1 ordered: 21175 [N608193], well before the Gibb cars. Also of all the known Berger COPOs none have a body number near #3 even though some are in the same N608xxx VIN range - another car the theory would rule out. Many of the non-Gibb ZL-1s also have random body numbers not close to other known COPOs.
So much for the theory.
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firstgenaddict
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 07/29/01
Posts: 2472
Loc: Greenville, SC USA
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There are at least 10 Emmert COPO's with 610XXX vins and 15 or so Berger's with Vins below 614XXX. Plus the Yenko's and 9560's.
There is a Yenko VIN#614732 along with about 100 more Yenkos with Vin's in the 613XXX-616XXX VIN range... yes they were batch built and yes this car was built during one of the batches but none of this means anything without paperwork... COPO's are not too hard to clone so without orignal drive train or paper it will be difficult to prove without a shawdow of doubt.
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Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
~JAG
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*hotrods*
newbie
Reged: 01/11/06
Posts: 20
Loc: kentucky
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Thanks for all the help guys. I'm just about done with the restoration of the car and thought that it may be a long shot. Anyway I didn't want to sell a car for half the price of a real COPO. Thanks again.
Kevin
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YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY
Reged: 04/27/00
Posts: 9844
Loc: PA
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William, that is good info on the body # vs. vin # relationships. You Camaro guys have it a lot harder than us Nova guys because you have these small batches of copo cars thrown into the mix. Kudo's to you for spending years figuring them out!
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Marlin
70 Yenko Nova,--LT1, M21, 4.10's
69 SS Nova,-----L78, M20, 3.55's
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