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#210165 - 10/31/06 06:49 PM 1967 Z/28
JHS Offline

enthusiast

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 388
Loc: Rome, Georgia
FOR SALE: 1967 Z/28, Butternut Yellow with black vinyl top and interior. Born-with, factory original, numbers matching and correct date coded drivetrain including MO code block, double hump heads, M21 Muncie with VIN and 12 bolt posi w/traction bar. This car is an older restoration (circa 1998) with no documents but previously owned by a sYc member, recently certified by Jerry MacNeish and is car number 170 in the Registery (per Jerry). This is a low option car that runs and drives great. Car also has the correct carburetor, distributor, alternator, starter, exhaust manifolds, alum. intake, fan clutch (incorrect fan blade and a '68 Z/28 water pump), what appears to be the original Harrison radiator, WT master cylinder and early model DF 15" wheels w/repro redlines. I have misplaced the data sheet that I compiled containing all the numbers and dates but will gather the info. for serious prospective buyers. I am posting pics of the pad, which was the subject of an earlier thread posted on this site, along with some older pics but I will post/email recent ones if needed, as soon as I can figure out my digital camera. Everything works except the radio. The undercarriage is clean and all pans/panels are solid. Some detailing of the undercarriage will be required as it appears that whoever did the resto did not do a concourse job in this area. I have completed the punch list compiled by Jerry except installing the correct steering wheel (which I have), the fan blade assembly ($1600+ for one on eBay a while back) and replacing the rear deck lid (currently from a '68 model).
I am not a '67 Z/28 expert nor do I play one on TV; I am representing this car as it has been represented to me by the previous owner and MacNeish and will make his report available to anyone interested. Asking price: $90000.


















Edited by JHS (10/31/06 07:05 PM)
_________________________
'70 L78 NOVA SS
'69 Double COPO Camaro
'71 CHEVELLE SS454 ZL1
'70 El Camino LS5

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#210166 - 10/31/06 09:23 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: JHS]
92646 Offline

old hand

Registered: 06/01/02
Posts: 1187
Loc: Orange county Ca.
I know I am going to pay for this comment. What a beautiful car. Do you need a 1969 SS RS Camaro with a 540 to keep the Chevelle company?
Mark Sheppard


Attachments
231755-hoodfront.50.JPG (300 downloads)


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#210167 - 11/01/06 12:20 AM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: 92646]
Zedder Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/19/02
Posts: 2052
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Good luck with the sale Joe! To be honest, I am very tempted to buy the car back given what I am seeing for sale for $90K these days - and especially since it has the original motor! Someone can enjoy this car as is for a number of years and still be OK after a freshening if they wanted
_________________________
Mark
1997 Porsche C2S - 16,000 miles
Wanted: '67 'L78 or Z-28 Camaro


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#210168 - 11/01/06 01:51 AM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: Zedder]
Belair62 Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 13450
Loc: Suburban Chicago
Quote:

I am not a '67 Z/28 expert nor do I play one on TV


...I think it looks excellent in Butternut too.
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#210169 - 11/01/06 03:18 AM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: Belair62]
Hotrodpaul Offline
addict

Registered: 03/04/05
Posts: 636
Loc: Houston, TX
Am I seeing that right. Motor V0703MO (July 3rd) Trim Tag 06E (Fifth week in June). Was the motor built after the body???

Paul
_________________________
70 Camaro LA Z-28 Citrus Green LT-1 M-40 3.73's 70 Camaro LA SS Citrus Green L-48 M-20 3.31's

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#210170 - 11/01/06 04:05 AM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: Hotrodpaul]
427king Offline
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Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 3139
Loc: Graceland
The M and the O are at different angles,and at different heights than the V0703 and also to each other ,were the 67 Zs engine suffix hand stamped ??

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#210171 - 11/01/06 01:36 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: Hotrodpaul]
JHS Offline

enthusiast

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 388
Loc: Rome, Georgia
Quote:

Am I seeing that right. Motor V0703MO (July 3rd) Trim Tag 06E (Fifth week in June). Was the motor built after the body???

According to MacNeish, this is correct and not uncommon, I had the same question. The pad stamping has been looked at by numerous, knowledgeable people and determined correct. As I said, this pad was the subject of a thread a few months ago when someone interested in the car posted a copy on the site, asking the same questions as 427king did.


Paul



_________________________
'70 L78 NOVA SS
'69 Double COPO Camaro
'71 CHEVELLE SS454 ZL1
'70 El Camino LS5

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#210172 - 11/01/06 01:40 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: JHS]
Zedder Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/19/02
Posts: 2052
Loc: Ontario, Canada
There are numerous examples of the engine suffix being uneven with '67 Z's. In fact, I can't say that I have ever seen a real stamping that wasn't a little off. Jerry's book shows a couple of examples...
_________________________
Mark
1997 Porsche C2S - 16,000 miles
Wanted: '67 'L78 or Z-28 Camaro


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#210173 - 11/01/06 01:44 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: 92646]
JHS Offline

enthusiast

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 388
Loc: Rome, Georgia
Quote:

I know I am going to pay for this comment. What a beautiful car. Do you need a 1969 SS RS Camaro with a 540 to keep the Chevelle company?
Mark Sheppard




Thanks Mark for the offer but I am trying to divest myself of a few vehicles and the Z is beautiful but it does not fit in with my SS BB collection. I already have a '70 RS/SS L78 Camaro under resto.
_________________________
'70 L78 NOVA SS
'69 Double COPO Camaro
'71 CHEVELLE SS454 ZL1
'70 El Camino LS5

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#210174 - 11/01/06 02:47 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: JHS]
Stefano Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 6441
Loc: Land of Lincoln
Can someone post the prior stamp thread mentioned? Any known reason why the vin tag has a std pop rivet.

Looks like a cool car.


Thanks,
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#210175 - 11/01/06 03:00 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: Stefano]
Zedder Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/19/02
Posts: 2052
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Numerous examples of mixed rivets exist...the 10,000 mile unrestored '67 L78 that was discussed on this site a while ago has one standard and one rosette rivit also.
_________________________
Mark
1997 Porsche C2S - 16,000 miles
Wanted: '67 'L78 or Z-28 Camaro


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#210176 - 11/01/06 03:10 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: Stefano]
JHS Offline

enthusiast

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 388
Loc: Rome, Georgia
Stefano,
I do not remeber which forum the previous thread was posted nor have I EVER had any luck searching the forums for previous topics! I did print the old thread and have it at home so will see if I can determine when/where the posting occured. I do have some recent pics of underneath, trunk and engine compartment if anyone wants more posted. I do not have a lift so underneath is hit and miss as far as quality.
_________________________
'70 L78 NOVA SS
'69 Double COPO Camaro
'71 CHEVELLE SS454 ZL1
'70 El Camino LS5

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#210177 - 11/01/06 03:28 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: Stefano]
SS427 Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/26/01
Posts: 6670
Loc: Pleasant Plains, IL
Stefano,
Can you be more specific what previous thead you are looking for? I will see if I can find it.
Rick
_________________________
Musclecar Restoration and Design, Inc
www.musclecarrestorationanddesign.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62r-6vgk2_8
specializing in REAL LS6 Chevelle restorations









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#210178 - 11/01/06 04:03 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: SS427]
JHS Offline

enthusiast

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 388
Loc: Rome, Georgia
Stefano does not know anymore about the previous post, he is asking based on a comment I made in my sales ad. I can't remember which forum or when the previous post was made but I believe a member named Alan was inquiring about the pad. Zedder may know more as well. I do have a hard copy of the discussion at home and will try to determine more about it. Thanks for your offer to assist.
_________________________
'70 L78 NOVA SS
'69 Double COPO Camaro
'71 CHEVELLE SS454 ZL1
'70 El Camino LS5

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#210179 - 11/01/06 04:40 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: JHS]
Stefano Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 6441
Loc: Land of Lincoln
Yeah that's it. I just wanted to read the discussion mentioned I don't recall when it took place or under which thread?
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#210180 - 11/01/06 04:48 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: JHS]
JHS Offline

enthusiast

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 388
Loc: Rome, Georgia
Here are updated pics taken on 10/31 while trying to avoid the trick-or-treaters:














_________________________
'70 L78 NOVA SS
'69 Double COPO Camaro
'71 CHEVELLE SS454 ZL1
'70 El Camino LS5

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#210181 - 11/01/06 05:35 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: JHS]
YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/27/00
Posts: 11937
Loc: PA
Can I have the guard dog?
_________________________
Marlin
70 Yenko Nova-350/360, 4speed M21, 4.10 Posi (Daddy's Ride)
69 SS Nova-396/375hp, 4speed M20, 3.55 Posi (Benjamin's Ride)
67 RS Camaro-327/250hp, 2speed Glide, & 3.08 Open (Danny's Ride)

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#210182 - 11/01/06 06:26 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]
JHS Offline

enthusiast

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 388
Loc: Rome, Georgia
Quote:

Can I have the guard dog?




He would just bite you, as he does me and I have had him 12 years...
_________________________
'70 L78 NOVA SS
'69 Double COPO Camaro
'71 CHEVELLE SS454 ZL1
'70 El Camino LS5

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#210183 - 11/02/06 01:09 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: Stefano]
JHS Offline

enthusiast

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 388
Loc: Rome, Georgia
Quote:

Can someone post the prior stamp thread mentioned? Any known reason why the vin tag has a std pop rivet.

Looks like a cool car.


Thanks,




The previous post was made by quick-bowtie on 2/24/06, I am attempting to post the link

link to pad stamping post
_________________________
'70 L78 NOVA SS
'69 Double COPO Camaro
'71 CHEVELLE SS454 ZL1
'70 El Camino LS5

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#210184 - 11/03/06 12:02 AM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: JHS]
Rick H Offline
old hand

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 993
Loc: Warsaw, NY
I don't get the date stamp. How can that be correct? Just asking.

The motor build date doesn't even fall into the last week of June, 1967. The 3rd of July in 1967 was on a Monday and would have placed the engine build date in 07A. The VIN on the car falls in with the cowl tag of 06E . There were 5 weeks in June with Friday being June 30. Even if the week ended on Sunday, that was July 2nd. Last I knew the week didn't end on a Monday.

What makes it even more confusing is the VIN is a few thousand before the end of the June month VIN. Add in the fact the M and O look out of whack and more


These cars whether a Z or not all rolled down the same assembly line did they not? Was a motor not available when this one came down the line until the following week??

The car is still nice regardless.

Rick H.

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#210185 - 11/03/06 12:47 AM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: Rick H]
Zedder Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/19/02
Posts: 2052
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Read this for your answers...assume that the body build at Fisher was started late in the Day Friday June 30th and it will all make sense to you...

http://www.camaros.org/assemblyprocess.shtml
_________________________
Mark
1997 Porsche C2S - 16,000 miles
Wanted: '67 'L78 or Z-28 Camaro


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#210186 - 11/03/06 01:28 AM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: Zedder]
Pacecarjeff Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 08/31/05
Posts: 346
Loc: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Not sure how an engine could be assembled at Flint, after the car was built at Norwood?
Don't really understand that part, but the MO part is how they did it.

The MO is the only part of the stamp pad that I really like...
I would like to see a close up of the VIN that is stamped on the trans?

Very Nice car.


Here is a picture of a untouched pad from a 67 SS350
Sold this car last year, was absolutely the original engine.


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#210187 - 11/03/06 01:45 AM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: Zedder]
Rick H Offline
old hand

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 993
Loc: Warsaw, NY
With a VIN of 247737 and a final VIN in June of apprx 251048 I don't see this car beng built on June 30th. Especially with a production of 912 cars a day at a plant that only produced Camaros.

251048-247737=3311/912=3.63days before June 30th.

Puts it about the middle of the day the 27th of June. Almost a full week before the engine was made?????

So yes, that answers my question.

Rick H.

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#210188 - 11/03/06 01:54 AM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: Pacecarjeff]
Rick H Offline
old hand

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 993
Loc: Warsaw, NY
Quote:

Here is a picture of a untouched pad from a 67 SS350
Sold this car last year, was absolutely the original engine.





Now that VIN and engine stamp works. VIN is first week of June with an end of May engine stamp.

Rick H.

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#210189 - 11/03/06 02:02 AM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: Rick H]
Pacecarjeff Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 08/31/05
Posts: 346
Loc: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
I actually like the 7N247 and I like the V07 MO
Not sure about that other stuff - is the pad completly flat?

Beautiful Car



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#210190 - 11/03/06 02:20 AM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: Pacecarjeff]
Zedder Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/19/02
Posts: 2052
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Hey Joe...rather than wallow in the mud, I'll go with my understanding of '67 Z's and Jerry MacNeish's certification and gladly give you what you paid me for the car last October

This is a very nice, driveable '67 Z guys...someone should pick her up!!!
_________________________
Mark
1997 Porsche C2S - 16,000 miles
Wanted: '67 'L78 or Z-28 Camaro


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#210191 - 11/03/06 02:43 AM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: Zedder]
Pacecarjeff Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 08/31/05
Posts: 346
Loc: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Legally speaking, that is all a seller is responsible for.
Refunding the original purchase price.
I am sure last october this car was sold for "all the money".

What does Jerry's certification say about the stamp pad?
Does he certify this stamp pad as being the original? I wouldn't think so.

No doubt in my mind at all - this is a genuine 1967 Z/28, with a real MO 302 engine.
It is a gorgeous car, that anyone would be very lucky to own. I would like to myself.

I just can't see this engine starting life in this car.
Especially since the engine post-dates the car.

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#210192 - 11/03/06 04:50 AM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: Pacecarjeff]
1967Z28 Offline

addict

Registered: 10/18/02
Posts: 567
Loc: Golden Bear State, USA
I work with Jerry on the '67 Z28 Registry and also with the CRG group. When you gather enough data, you see that 06E is a oddball build week that ran longer than usual for some reason. We have seen this with other months and in other years. There are very few 07A '67 Norwood cars. There are at least 7 06E-built '67 Z-28s with engine stampings in July. The latest 06E car has an V0706MO engine in it. I understand the initial skepticism but it is unwarranted. This car is a nice, legitimate '67 Z-28.

-Jon

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#210193 - 11/03/06 05:08 AM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: 1967Z28]
Pacecarjeff Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 08/31/05
Posts: 346
Loc: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Hey Jon,
Based on your professional experience, are you certifying that this engine stamp as THE original born with stamping?
Or, are you just saying the original engine was stamped this way, and this was possible?

We all know this is a nice legitimate 1967 Z/28 - NO QUESTION.
I am asking you directly: In your professional opinion - from working with the Z/28 registry, and the CRG.
IS THIS THE ORIGINAL ENGINE AND VIN STAMPING?

Would really like to hear this from the CRG.
I really like the car, this is just a real weird one???
We all know that anything was possible, but is this a true example?

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#210194 - 11/03/06 05:22 AM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: Pacecarjeff]
1967Z28 Offline

addict

Registered: 10/18/02
Posts: 567
Loc: Golden Bear State, USA
I'm not a certified appraiser. I guess my opinion should carry no more weight than the next guy but this block pad looks legit to me based on many others that I have seen over the years. That is just my 2 cents worth, which is maybe all it's worth.

-Jon

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#210195 - 11/03/06 05:26 AM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: Pacecarjeff]
427king Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 3139
Loc: Graceland
I dont think anyone would touch that subject or give thier guarantee.I cant really blame them. Im sure any appraiser will have plenty of clauses in his inspection clearing him of any errors or misjudgements.Alot of what is stated would be based on "experience" and similar cars and criteria,not on written guarantees. Alot of people use to assume that since a corvette got a top flight, that the ncrs was verifying the engines as being original. They may not deduct any points for a stamp pad on the judging form , but they would never guarantee they were right either,which is being realistic

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#210196 - 11/03/06 11:39 AM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: 427king]
Zedder Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/19/02
Posts: 2052
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Jon, thanks for giving your opinion and sharing some of the info that you and Jerry have collected over the years. I too can understand the questions, I just hate to see people infer that the engine is a restamp without having the experience with '67 Z's to make that judgement or having seen the car in person. Everyone has to remember that these were very low production car and odd things are seen with them all of the time. Maybe they ran short of engines in 06E or something to cause a delay for a few days??? Here is a better pic of the pad that my inspector took prior to my purchase. For what it's worth, he is an NCRS master judge and used one of Jeff's broach busters for viewing the pad. He then took this high res pic with a macro setting. This pad is beautiful!!!


Attachments
232328-BYBV67Zpad.jpg (310 downloads)



Edited by Zedder (11/03/06 11:41 AM)
_________________________
Mark
1997 Porsche C2S - 16,000 miles
Wanted: '67 'L78 or Z-28 Camaro


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#210197 - 11/03/06 12:32 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: Zedder]
Jeff H Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/15/01
Posts: 2293
Loc: Ewing, NJ
Great information on the 06E week Jon. I've heard of the problems with the 06A week with the 69 Camaros and how many cars have later dated engines. But I had not heard about the 67 06E week. It almost sounds like they left the trim tag stamp 06E on into the 1st week of July.
_________________________
69 Z28 JL8, #'s match, crossram - being restored

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#210198 - 11/03/06 12:55 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: Jeff H]
YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/27/00
Posts: 11937
Loc: PA
This doesn't surprise me, don't we see the same situation with other years of cars built in June? Aren't the rears of June of '69 Yenko Camaro's built after the scheduled build week on the TT? The deuces have this situation as well, and have the vin/body #'s in reverse in some weeks. So, once you've gathered enough data on a particular car's build range you will recognize patterns - even strange ones! Nice work Jon
_________________________
Marlin
70 Yenko Nova-350/360, 4speed M21, 4.10 Posi (Daddy's Ride)
69 SS Nova-396/375hp, 4speed M20, 3.55 Posi (Benjamin's Ride)
67 RS Camaro-327/250hp, 2speed Glide, & 3.08 Open (Danny's Ride)

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#210199 - 11/03/06 01:25 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]
Pacecarjeff Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 08/31/05
Posts: 346
Loc: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
The second pad picture is actually much better then the other one. Even the pad surface looks better.
Yes, it is very hard to tell without seeing it in person.

I WILL NOT call it a restamp, it is just very strange.
If you guys say that an engine later then the build date is typical for that time period,
then I will have to defer to the experts.
Sorry, I just have never heard of such a thing.

It is very very unusual, but I am always willing to listen and learn.

Like I said before, that Z is gorgeous.
If I had room for another, I would seriously be considering it. And that price seems like a deal.

Good luck with the sale.



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#210200 - 11/03/06 01:51 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: Pacecarjeff]
YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/27/00
Posts: 11937
Loc: PA
80% of Deuces built in 06B have their rears dated later than the scheduled build date on their trim tag It happens!
_________________________
Marlin
70 Yenko Nova-350/360, 4speed M21, 4.10 Posi (Daddy's Ride)
69 SS Nova-396/375hp, 4speed M20, 3.55 Posi (Benjamin's Ride)
67 RS Camaro-327/250hp, 2speed Glide, & 3.08 Open (Danny's Ride)

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#210201 - 11/03/06 04:45 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]
Pacecarjeff Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 08/31/05
Posts: 346
Loc: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
If you say it happened, I will believe it.
Just can't imagine GM building a car, then letting it sit around waiting for the rest of the parts to show up the following week.

Just doesn't make sense.
There must have been a lot of 1/2 built bodies sitting around waiting in June 67.

What about the rest of the engine componets - how are they dated? Alt, Carb, dist.


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#210202 - 11/03/06 05:06 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: Zedder]
Rick H Offline
old hand

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 993
Loc: Warsaw, NY
Quote:

I just hate to see people infer that the engine is a restamp without having the experience with '67 Z's to make that judgement or having seen the car in person.




I never used the word "restamp". I am just questioning how a car built in one week can have a motor built the following week. Plus just because it's a Z/28 in my mind doesn't matter. It was ordered just like all the other Camaros and rolled down the same assembly line.

Plus you can speculate all you want but the truth of the matter is that unless there is substantial paperwork to support the later motor the car will always be suspect. It's just a fact.

Other then that the car is extremely nice.

Rick H.

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#210203 - 11/03/06 05:10 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: Pacecarjeff]
Jeff H Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/15/01
Posts: 2293
Loc: Ewing, NJ
Quote:

If you say it happened, I will believe it.
Just can't imagine GM building a car, then letting it sit around waiting for the rest of the parts to show up the following week.

Just doesn't make sense.
There must have been a lot of 1/2 built bodies sitting around waiting in June 67.

What about the rest of the engine componets - how are they dated? Alt, Carb, dist.





Jeff, you're reading it wrong. The trim tags were stamped wrong so it looks like they were being built the last week of June when they really weren't started until the first week in July. Somebody probably forgot to change the stamps for the trim tag. Look at the 69 Camaros with 06A (almost all of June was stamped 06A but most cars were built later in the month) and the 69 Camaros with 04L on the trim tag. CRG should have better examples of these situations, but I don't think it's an issue of the car being built and then sitting and waiting for components.
_________________________
69 Z28 JL8, #'s match, crossram - being restored

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#210204 - 11/03/06 05:11 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: Rick H]
Zedder Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/19/02
Posts: 2052
Loc: Ontario, Canada
"Plus you can speculate all you want but the truth of the matter is that unless there is substantial paperwork to support the later motor the car will always be suspect. It's just a fact."

Actually, it's not suspect to anyone that I know that "knows" '67 Z-28's, but I can understand those without significant knowledge regarding these cars having questions.




Edited by Zedder (11/03/06 05:12 PM)
_________________________
Mark
1997 Porsche C2S - 16,000 miles
Wanted: '67 'L78 or Z-28 Camaro


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#210205 - 11/03/06 05:32 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: Zedder]
William Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/09/01
Posts: 999
Loc: New Berlin WI USA
The '67 Z/28 I was involved with years ago had a V0706MO engine stamp, 06E body.

Protect-o-plate, 2 owners, absolutely original drivetrain.

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#210206 - 11/03/06 05:44 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: Zedder]
Rick H Offline
old hand

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 993
Loc: Warsaw, NY
Quote:

Actually, it's not suspect to anyone that I know that "knows" '67 Z-28's, but I can understand those without significant knowledge regarding these cars having questions.






So, you're saying that I and a few others don't have enough knowledge to question these car? Hmmmmmm. Alrighty then.

Rick H.


Edited by Rick H (11/03/06 05:48 PM)

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#210207 - 11/03/06 06:17 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: Rick H]
YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/27/00
Posts: 11937
Loc: PA
Or.... If you had more knowledge, you wouldn't be questioning.....
_________________________
Marlin
70 Yenko Nova-350/360, 4speed M21, 4.10 Posi (Daddy's Ride)
69 SS Nova-396/375hp, 4speed M20, 3.55 Posi (Benjamin's Ride)
67 RS Camaro-327/250hp, 2speed Glide, & 3.08 Open (Danny's Ride)

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#210208 - 11/03/06 06:29 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]
Kim_Howie Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/05/00
Posts: 4359
I'm going to get the popcornnnn.
_________________________
Jake is my grandson!!

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#210209 - 11/03/06 06:49 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]
Rick H Offline
old hand

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 993
Loc: Warsaw, NY
Quote:

Or.... If you had more knowledge, you wouldn't be questioning.....




Back at ya!

Rick H.

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#210210 - 11/03/06 06:57 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: Kim_Howie]
Don_Lightfoot Offline

old hand

Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 1094
Loc: Kingston, Ontario
Quote:

I'm going to get the popcornnnn.



I'll take mine with butter if you please.

Good idea for people to save this entire thread for future reference. I know nothing about the Jun/Jul scenarios being explained here and those explanations seem to come across quite valid. However, five years from now, if I was looking at this car, and willing to pay "matching number" dollars for it, the conflicting dates would certainly throw up a red flag. Nothing much you can do except have evidence on file similar to what this thread is bringing out and hopefully potential purchasers will not dispute it.
_________________________
The Blue Beast

Joel Rosen to prospective customer:
"How fast do you want to go,
and how much money do you want to spend?"

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#210211 - 11/03/06 07:06 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: Rick H]
YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/27/00
Posts: 11937
Loc: PA
Quote:

Quote:

Or.... If you had more knowledge, you wouldn't be questioning.....




Back at ya!

Rick H.




I'm not the one doing the questioning,
_________________________
Marlin
70 Yenko Nova-350/360, 4speed M21, 4.10 Posi (Daddy's Ride)
69 SS Nova-396/375hp, 4speed M20, 3.55 Posi (Benjamin's Ride)
67 RS Camaro-327/250hp, 2speed Glide, & 3.08 Open (Danny's Ride)

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#210212 - 11/03/06 08:01 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: William]
Stefano Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 6441
Loc: Land of Lincoln
Thanks great info, I know I learned a few things from this thread.
_________________________
Click to visit the Nickey-Chicago forum-->

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#210213 - 11/03/06 10:36 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: Stefano]
67L78conv Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 11/25/05
Posts: 310
Loc: NJ USA
Just one more to chime in. It is always safer to question than to assume to much.

In the case of this car and a few others that I have on record it looks very much like there was a shortage of a particular part, could be the MO engine, that held this car on the line longer than it should have been. Based on the body number sequence to the vin number this car and at least one other I have record of were both held for a number of days counting the weekend. This hold over number is based on several cars on record that are within 20 build numbers away, taking their final vin numbers and subtracting from this cars vin number, divide.... This is not a common thing but well documented on high performance and rare option cars from several years where parts were short and the car had to be held up until they were in. The hold over of 69 Copo's where they sat waiting for a BE rear is a well known example. I've got enough cars in my own registry that I have to see and agree with Jon, not that I was questioning, 6E/7A are odd weeks with a number of peculiar things showing up.

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#210214 - 11/04/06 02:47 AM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: 67L78conv]
JHS Offline

enthusiast

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 388
Loc: Rome, Georgia
As I said, I am no expert and representing the car as it was to me. The engine cast date is F297.As for what Jerry states in his certification "This Z28 Camaro coupe and drivetrain have been certified as real and authentic." Will this statement be parsed to mean that the car and drive train have been certified, seperately, as correct but not necessarily "born with" each other? I would hope that no licensed appraiser specializing in these cars would be that ambigious or evasive. I appreciate the discussion and have learned a lot. I am sticking with my belief that the car is real and if no one buys it then I guess I will just be "stuck" with a car that they only made 602 of and, as I was told, only approx. 169 are documented as still on the road; for all of the vultures circling, that is just a number I heard and I did not have sex with that woman...
_________________________
'70 L78 NOVA SS
'69 Double COPO Camaro
'71 CHEVELLE SS454 ZL1
'70 El Camino LS5

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#210215 - 11/04/06 03:24 AM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: JHS]
427king Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 3139
Loc: Graceland
Quote:

they only made 602 of and, as I was told, only approx. 169 are documented as still on the road



Based on the usual lack of docs for 67 camaros in general [buildsheets etc] id say 170 documented on the road out of 602 made seems like a rather large percentage,especially given that the vast majority of those cars werent grocery getters. Im curious as to what criteria was used to document the other 169.......If my numbers are accurate they made around 225[roughly] 427 COPO Chevelles,which had the luxury of having 1 2 or 3 buildsheets in each car and cars from canada, and there are only around 20 or so documented last i heard. Furthermore the vins of the yenko chevelles are known, and they havent found 30% of those.


Edited by 427king (11/04/06 03:37 AM)

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#210216 - 11/04/06 03:53 AM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: 427king]
Jonesy Offline


old hand

Registered: 03/26/02
Posts: 838
Loc: Duluth, Minnesota
Last I heard there was about 195 of 602 found to date.
_________________________
1967 Camaro RS Z/28 Nantucket Blue
1969 Camaro RS/SS Azure Turquoise
1974 Camaro Z/28 Antique White
1979 Camaro Z/28 Dark Blue Met

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#210217 - 11/04/06 04:04 AM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: Jonesy]
Kurt S Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/01/00
Posts: 1653
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
I've had several people ask me to comment. I'll keep it simple since Jon and Bill covered most of it.
Dates all line up fine. Car was built / finished ~7/06/67, if that helps clear it up.
And, IMO, block stamp is fine.
_________________________
Kurt S - CRG

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#210218 - 11/04/06 01:35 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: Kurt S]
JHS Offline

enthusiast

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 388
Loc: Rome, Georgia
Quote:

I've had several people ask me to comment. I'll keep it simple since Jon and Bill covered most of it.
Dates all line up fine. Car was built / finished ~7/06/67, if that helps clear it up.
And, IMO, block stamp is fine.




Thanks for the confirmation. I do believe the car to be original and the engine stamping correct along with all the other components. I have held my comments to a minimum as I do not want to end up in the same situation as 427RCODE in a recent thread. Skepticism is fine and there is nothing more I can say or do to change anyone's mind (ZEDDER, your pm box is full). I have every confidence that this car is correct and has the born-with drivetrain, thus my comment about being "stuck" with it if I do not sell it; I put it in quotes to indicate that I will be glad to keep it as it is, in my and other people's opinion, a matching numbers car, it just does not fit in to my collection of BB cars. Nuff said...
_________________________
'70 L78 NOVA SS
'69 Double COPO Camaro
'71 CHEVELLE SS454 ZL1
'70 El Camino LS5

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#210219 - 11/04/06 01:41 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: Kurt S]
Pacecarjeff Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 08/31/05
Posts: 346
Loc: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
If I could offer a suggestion...
Can someone from the CRG write Joe a letter?

No guarantees, just something simple like:
"Dear sir, According to our research... Here is what happened in June of 1967".
If this is truly a verified, and documented anomaly -
then someone needs to put it down in writing. (not a former owner- no offense)

I would imagine, that EVERY single time that this car hits the market,
these same exact questions are going to be asked.
100 years from now when we are all gone,
someone is still going to ask the same questions again, and again.
Unless maybe they find those shipping documents by then.
Just my opinion, but that would certainly help this beautiful car in the future.
With this stuff docummented, this Z can always reach it's full potential.

To be perfectly honest, even if this car HAD a replacement engine, (which it doesn't seem to have).
I think it still is worth the asking price.

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#210220 - 11/04/06 01:58 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: Pacecarjeff]
JHS Offline

enthusiast

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 388
Loc: Rome, Georgia
A letter from CRG would be great, how would I proceed? I hired MacNeish to certify the car in an attempt to make up for the lack of documentation. When I asked him about the engine assembly date being after the 06E cowl tag date, he said he expected to see that apparent discrepency and did not give it a second thought, so I did not either. I guess I just wasted my money having him certify the car??? I am not going to manufacture paperwork so all I could do is post pics and tell it like I know it. I mentioned the former owner because I believe what he told me to be true as he is a stand up guy and most of you know him and his reputation. Now, I promise I will bow out...
_________________________
'70 L78 NOVA SS
'69 Double COPO Camaro
'71 CHEVELLE SS454 ZL1
'70 El Camino LS5

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#210221 - 11/04/06 02:24 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: JHS]
Zedder Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/19/02
Posts: 2052
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Sorry Joe, I just emptied my PM Box I think the CRG guys who have spoken up have eliminated any doubts that most would have about this car and given Jerry's "professional" opinion also, I wouldn't lose any sleep about the car's pedigree. Frankly, anyone who is serious about a '67 Z usually contacts one of a handful of guys who follow these cars closely and asks for an opinion. Those in the know would not hesitate to endorse the car based on the dates, engine pad and trim tag - I wouldn't have bought it myself it this wasn't the case. My opinion as to why the car isn't selling quickly is simply that the market for anything about $65K or more is very soft right now compared to this time last year. Look at Quick Bow-Tie's '70 L78 Chevelle that only went for $69K. I was very interested in that car and would have probably paid $75K for it last year, but I bowed out at $65K for fear that a correction was happening and I didn't want to be upside down. Obviously, "the market" had similar concerns given what it sold for. Cars over $65K will sell, but they will take longer to find the "right" buyer - especially as we go into the winter. I'd put the car on ebay with a copy of Jerry's report and get it more exposure. I'd also put it on Team Camaro. Good luck with the sale!


Edited by Zedder (11/04/06 02:42 PM)
_________________________
Mark
1997 Porsche C2S - 16,000 miles
Wanted: '67 'L78 or Z-28 Camaro


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#210222 - 11/04/06 02:25 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: JHS]
TDW Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/05/02
Posts: 1802
Loc: Michigan USA
I don't think you wasted any money with MacNeish. I think his certs carry a lot of wieght with a car.
_________________________
Tony

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#210223 - 11/04/06 05:48 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: TDW]
Stefano Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 6441
Loc: Land of Lincoln
I didn't take any pics of the pad stamp on the Blue low mile '67 Z which sold at Mecum. Did anyone else?
_________________________
Click to visit the Nickey-Chicago forum-->

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#210224 - 11/04/06 06:51 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: Stefano]
Zedder Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/19/02
Posts: 2052
Loc: Ontario, Canada
When I was going to buy that 7K mile car in 2002 or 2003, the original motor was not in the car but the owner (an engine builder) claimed to have the original motor in a bag. I requested video and pics of the car which I got, but again without anything on the original motor. I again asked specifically for shots of the engine pad...and the car was sold to someone else. The car was a drag car since new.


Edited by Zedder (11/04/06 07:05 PM)

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#210225 - 11/04/06 09:09 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: Zedder]
Rick H Offline
old hand

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 993
Loc: Warsaw, NY
Quote:

the original motor was not in the car but the owner (an engine builder) claimed to have the original motor in a bag.




Maybe it was on 06E car and he had Santa Claus bring him the engine for Christmas.

Rick H.

p.s. for you guys with no sense of humor, that's a joke.

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#210226 - 11/05/06 05:23 AM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: Pacecarjeff]
Kurt S Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/01/00
Posts: 1653
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Quote:

If I could offer a suggestion...
Can someone from the CRG write Joe a letter?




That's not something that CRG does or wants to do. That's a slippery slope....
If the owner or buyer wants a certified opinion they should contact a professional like Jerry.
_________________________
Kurt S - CRG

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#210227 - 11/05/06 01:40 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: Kurt S]
Pacecarjeff Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 08/31/05
Posts: 346
Loc: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Quote:


That's not something that CRG does or wants to do. That's a slippery slope....
If the owner or buyer wants a certified opinion they should contact a professional like Jerry.




Yes, I would imagine it would be.
Has this anomaly been documented on the CRG site?
Maybe a blurb somewhere, telling the story about the June 67 cars -
seems like there should be a bunch of examples.



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#210228 - 11/05/06 05:54 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: Pacecarjeff]
Jerry@CHP Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 351
Loc: Eldersburg, Maryland

Hey Guys,

Just wanted to chime in here. Jon, Kurt and Bill have basically covered all of the issues with this 1967 Z28. This car is real and the stampings are real and original to the car. I have many other original engine stampings that match this one.

Jon and I have been working together now for about 18 years. I started the 1967 Z28 registry in 1988 and Jon Mello joined in to help me with the registry that same year. Over the past 18 years, we have learned a lot and know about many of the production trends with these cars. Many of the cars built in an "E" month, 06E, 03E, etc are usually built during the first week of the next month. In the past, I have done seminars on this topic at the Camaro Nationals explaining this trend in great detail.

During the early 1990's GM of Canada supplied me with most of the 1967 Canadian paperwork for our research. It was during this time that we noticed vin numbers with an 06E trim tag build date were actually assembled during the first week of the next month. GM of Canada gives you the actual assembly date of the vehicle. This information was very important to our research and has helped us break the codes on many drive train issues.

The car that Joe has for sale is a steal at this price. It's a very nice car that needed some minor TLC, and to my knowledge, Joe has taken care of many of these issues.

Thanks,

Jerry@CHP
_________________________
'67 Z28 Camaro 302, NHRA D/Stock 10.64 @ 124.08 '67 Z28 Camaro Marina blue survivor, 13,000 miles

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#210229 - 11/05/06 07:40 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: Jerry@CHP]
427king Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 3139
Loc: Graceland
Im posting here because the motor questions came up in this thread,im not speaking of this 67Z in particular. My question is for ANY car that is inspected and "certified" by anyone that offers that service. I cant see anyone stating as fact, the originality of a motor with 100% certainty,whether the car has factory paperwork or not.There are many factory unstamped motors w perfect factory broach marks out there in the market,and anything can be properly duplicated to match any car out there. Saying a motor in someones qualified opinion is consistant with others that have been inspected,broach marks appear correct, etc is fine and is normally the type of language used in most inpection processes whether it be cars or baseball signatures,etc. Stating that a motor is guaranteed the original for the car in my opinion is not being realistic.


Edited by 427king (11/05/06 07:50 PM)

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#210230 - 11/05/06 07:56 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: 427king]
69motion Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/07/00
Posts: 255
Loc: northeast
Chuck i agree i own a few unstamped orig 512 351 blocks ect done right no one could tell

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#210231 - 11/05/06 08:16 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: 427king]
Zedder Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/19/02
Posts: 2052
Loc: Ontario, Canada
427King...I have to ask...based on your last post, how do you guarantee the motors you sell are not restamped like in this ad? "Factory MN motors for sale, all are rebuilt,3 have fresh ZERO miles one has 100 miles or so.All are intake to pan w dated 840s. All are original pad stampings. Have the following TO128MN TO512MN TO521MN TO528MN....Remember there are NO restamped ,reground motors here.$18500.00 youre choice,offers accepted ". Please understand I am not accusing you of restamping and my guess is that you have seen enough motors to know a real stamping when you see one, it just seems to contradict the comments you just made concerning appraisers???

I used to own the Z in this post and based on the number of real Z stampings that I have seen and the info that has been shared regarding these cars, I confidently sold it as having the original motor and have no second thoughts about it.
_________________________
Mark
1997 Porsche C2S - 16,000 miles
Wanted: '67 'L78 or Z-28 Camaro


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#210232 - 11/05/06 08:26 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: Zedder]
Rick H Offline
old hand

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 993
Loc: Warsaw, NY
Oh boy. Anybody got any popcorn left? Kim?

Rick H.

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#210233 - 11/05/06 09:01 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: Rick H]
Zedder Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/19/02
Posts: 2052
Loc: Ontario, Canada
There is no need for popcorn. I simply wonder how he feels comfortable making guarantees given everything that has been discussed here. He may just feel comfortable enough with his own knowledge and be prepared to refund monies for anything that slips by him some how. No big deal really as I have never heard anyone say that they have bought a restamped part from him and he has sold more hi-po chevy parts than anyone that I know! So there is no need to take offence or to sit and wait for a train wreck


Edited by Zedder (11/05/06 09:03 PM)
_________________________
Mark
1997 Porsche C2S - 16,000 miles
Wanted: '67 'L78 or Z-28 Camaro


Top
#210234 - 11/05/06 09:01 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: Zedder]
427king Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 3139
Loc: Graceland
Thats a good point,i believe i should word the ads a little bit differently as stated above. As far as how do i guarantee them, i offer a full 100% refund if anyone disagrees with my description ,no questions asked. I also document where and who the motors came from for the next owner, and they are assured that is how i bought the motor[s]. If an appraiser is wrong in his "certification",is he responsible for the 400.00 he charged, or the 50K he cost the new buyer if it is proven the motor was restamped in 1978 for example in the above example???


Edited by 427king (11/05/06 09:03 PM)

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#210235 - 11/05/06 09:03 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: 427king]
Zedder Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/19/02
Posts: 2052
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Thanks 427King...that is exactly what I expected and wrote the above post before reading your response. I feel the same way about the Z that I sold, if joe wants his money back I am happy to give it to him...and he has already told me that he is completely happy with the car.
_________________________
Mark
1997 Porsche C2S - 16,000 miles
Wanted: '67 'L78 or Z-28 Camaro


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#210236 - 11/05/06 09:13 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: Zedder]
427king Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 3139
Loc: Graceland
If you make a mistake in your representation of the car,you buy it back. If i make an error in my judgement, i buy it back. The difference for the "appraiser" however is that he normally charges a few hundred dollars and if his opinion is wrong he cant just offer a refund of the appraisal price, that may cost someone many 10000s if he falsely[unknowingly] documented a car. Thats why he really cant offer 100% guarantees. Remember that by saying a stamping is the original while the motor is IN A CAR , you are essentially saying the CAR is real as well .


Edited by 427king (11/05/06 09:21 PM)

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#210237 - 11/06/06 01:25 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: 427king]
JHS Offline

enthusiast

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 388
Loc: Rome, Georgia
Since I have no takers, does anyone know where I can get the correct fan assembly (5 blade, 4 rivet, 3.25in bolt pattern) and correct water pump for my anomoly? These items should finish up my MacNeish punch list.

I appreciate everyone's input and questions, learned quite a bit about the 67 Z as well as the thought patterns of some of the sYc members.
_________________________
'70 L78 NOVA SS
'69 Double COPO Camaro
'71 CHEVELLE SS454 ZL1
'70 El Camino LS5

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#210238 - 11/06/06 01:37 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: JHS]
Belair62 Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 13450
Loc: Suburban Chicago
Shoot first...ask questions later ???
_________________________
(__{B}_____]]]]~~~~

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#210239 - 11/06/06 02:05 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: JHS]
Pacecarjeff Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 08/31/05
Posts: 346
Loc: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Quote:

Since I have no takers, does anyone know where I can get the correct fan assembly (5 blade, 4 rivet, 3.25in bolt pattern) and correct water pump for my anomoly? These items should finish up my MacNeish punch list.

I appreciate everyone's input and questions, learned quite a bit about the 67 Z as well as the thought patterns of some of the sYc members.




I am sure some one will step up soon.
Give it some time - I might even be able to be convinced.
Why spend more on it, if you are trying to sell it?
Then you will have to ask $93K.

Or - are you taking it off the market?
IMO, Let the new owner find those things.

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#210240 - 11/06/06 07:12 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: Pacecarjeff]
JHS Offline

enthusiast

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 388
Loc: Rome, Georgia
Quote:

... Why spend more on it, if you are trying to sell it?
Then you will have to ask $93K.

Or - are you taking it off the market?
IMO, Let the new owner find those things.




I am too anal when it comes to these sort of things; if I can find the part I need, I will buy it, can only add value to the car. As I do not NEED to sell it I will continue to attempt to "add value", no matter what car I have, isn't that the whole point of the hobby? Only a flipper would remain satisfied with something less than correct, within reason of course and, no, I am not taking a stab at anyone that flips cars.
_________________________
'70 L78 NOVA SS
'69 Double COPO Camaro
'71 CHEVELLE SS454 ZL1
'70 El Camino LS5

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#210241 - 11/06/06 09:40 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: JHS]
enio45 Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 2299
Loc: Gilbert, AZ
Okkkk, Charlie...do you have another fan??
_________________________
Eddie M
MBTMF

68 COPO Camaro 9737 non-converted YENKO
69 YENKO SC Camaro, Hugger Orange - born with engine!

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#210242 - 11/07/06 12:21 AM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: JHS]
af1fe Offline
novice

Registered: 01/07/04
Posts: 30
Loc: Greer, SC
Joe,
Well said. What an adventure the road trip up to your house with Jerry was. Nothing like getting stuck in Atlanta traffic at rush hour with the outside temperature at 95 degrees!

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#210243 - 11/07/06 04:07 PM Re: 1967 Z/28 [Re: af1fe]
JHS Offline

enthusiast

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 388
Loc: Rome, Georgia
Quote:

Joe,
Well said. What an adventure the road trip up to your house with Jerry was. Nothing like getting stuck in Atlanta traffic at rush hour with the outside temperature at 95 degrees!




Enjoyed meeting both you and Jerry and, yes, the ATL traffic i something to avoid at all costs!!
_________________________
'70 L78 NOVA SS
'69 Double COPO Camaro
'71 CHEVELLE SS454 ZL1
'70 El Camino LS5

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