68 vet motion? vin # 194378S423906

[jtb]

This car came from a car museum in eastern Pa. around scranton wilksboro area and was owned by a Mr. Riley. Yhis was from the second owner and he said this car has 500 hp. This car was sent out to be modified and it appears to be a motion modification or a great clone. Tried to contact Mr. Rosen but no answer to my emails. Anyone know this car? :confused: tims photobucket (http://s301.photobucket.com/albums/nn70/bennojtb1/)

[owners2]

Can't seem to see any pics.

[jtb]

did u go to the photobucket site?

[Xplantdad]

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Can't seem to see any pics.

[/ QUOTE ]

Click on this link...he was trying to link the pics from his computer...

http://s301.photobucket.com/albums/nn70/bennojtb1

[olredalert]

------jtb,,,If I was a betting man I would bet that all the body modifications on this Corvette are Ecklers peices. I have seen them all before in the Ecklers catalogs and on cars for years. The only thing not Ecklers is the filled headlight holes. Not a bad day-2 Corvette but not Motion. That may be why Rosen didnt get back to you, although he should have.......Bill S

[jtb]

I also have seen in the 67- 69 range that motioo built alot of customer specs and that no two are alike. the mods are extremely typical of motion. there are three vets on his site that have these mods and I have seen the ecklers style and these are different. a few people have seen them and said they are extremely well done. If a high end car collector would send out to NY to have them done don't u think it would have been joel! Plus the engine has his style of mod. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif thanks for ur comments just look closer.

[PeteLeathersac]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Can't seem to see any pics.

[/ QUOTE ]

Click on this link...he was trying to link the pics from his computer...

http://s301.photobucket.com/albums/nn70/bennojtb1

[/ QUOTE ]


That link is only giving me some tiny interior pics...of what looks like may be a Rustang?.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
~ Pete

[jtb]

Look at the white motion vet on there site and it looks right on. If u noticed the fender wells are modified too. there are other vets that have these exact mods. but not all on one vet. What I need is a good lead on that Mr. Riley and that car museum or collection. I really like to hear ur comments and tap ur expetize. Thanks again!! can u get me proof of these other mods that are the same?

[olredalert]

-----jtb,,,Im not calling you out or anything. Im just going by some fairly deep experience. I just Googled anything to do with Joe or Motion and spent twenty minutes looking for the website you are referring to and couldnt find it. Can you start by letting us in on that??? The pictures I did see of 68/69s had virtually none of the modifications that are done to yours. I know for a fact that the rear spoiler is Ecklers. There have been so many different wheel-lips available over the years that Im not willing to say whose they are. Other than those two things and the filled headlight holes there are no other body mods. No reversed scoops, no rear window, no tail-light mods, no hood mods!!! I agree that every Motion Vette was different but as far as Im concerned this (very nice) Corvette of yours doesnt show us enough Motion type mods to make the leap. With paperwork, maybe.......Bill S

[x Baldwin Motion]

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn70/bennojtb1/IMG_0115_1_1.jpg

[jtb]

thanks for ur imput! Joel has stated in his articles that some vet owners did not want the modified hoods and that some wanted more of a sleeper car. and that he built them to their specs and the only thing for sure was that it would do the 1/4 mile in at least 11.5 seconds. the big modification came after 68, after he became the 2nd leading maker of supercars. The web site is THE SUPERCAR REGISTRY and search gallery. Thanks. PS You will find ablack and white picture of a motion vet with only one visable mod.

[jtb]

I believe that after 68 or even 69 he made enough money to really do up his cars like the phase III, thats why its so hard to pick out the early ones because he was more focused on speed.As his customer base grew and the demand for more modified and unique cars for the high end clients climbed he need to go over the top for them.He got smarter and started to tag and market them to the very high end client. Genius!! So the early ones are even hard for him to identify without a lot of research!

[x Baldwin Motion]

Lets see some pictures from under the hood and under the car. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[jtb]

Page 9 on this site in the gallery under baldwinmotion pictures. 3 examples of 68 & 69. Again thanks !!! Im not that good on this computer so thanks 4 bringing up that pic!!!!

[jtb]

Ill try to down load , not sure how but ill work on it . Holley double pumper 6212. M 22 muncy solid cam lifters aluminum manifold. 427 500 hp add on race fan. hertz shifter etc. alum rockers some after market stuff.

[jtb]

OK I have more photos on photobucket!!! the engine will only run on 114 octane!! It's a beast!!!!!

[olredalert]

-----jtb,,,Look real close at the black and white pic and you will notice the scooped hood. That was done because Joel along with every Corvette nut knew that a 68/9 tri-power intake was an inherently bad intake design. It was so low that raw fuel puddled up in the bottom. Joel and everybody else that wanted extra horses switched to higher intakes for better air flow. I did with the 69 435 that I bought brand new. I did it a bit differently and went with a 67 tri-power intake on my 69 as I wanted to keep the tri-power. I went with a factory L88 hood to get the clearance I needed. I knew how to set tri-power Hollys up pretty well and they generally ran better than a four or three barrel Holley. The cooler intake air was an added bonus. Those higher intakes required a taller hood. I dont see one on the car you have, therefore you might have a low intake. And be thankful no one butchered your car with the raised wheelwells on tha white car. Those things are atrocious. Yours are actually much nicer. I have modified, restored, and done general repair on Corvettes for close to 40 years, jtb. I didnt just pop in here.....Bill S

-------P.S.,,,I see your post and can see that your Vette has some decent peices under the hood. Ill bet it runs very strong. However,,,I see no signature Joel Rosen stuff. He was pretty specific about what he liked to do to get the horsepower where he wanted it. That doesnt mean that there werent other ways to get there as on your car. Now I would say that things happen to all these cars over the years and maybe some of his peices were changed out by someone.

[jtb]

It was not my intension to criticize or rebuke anybody I just know what Joel had said in that interview that some customers did not want a modified hood. I'm only stating what was printed in the interview. This vet was set for show but capable of racing and I appreciate your comments, but the only thing for certain is that the motion car would do 11.5 sec!!!

[jtb]

THe holley 850 cfm double pumper .the additional rad fan. the M 22. hertz shifter. Most if not all replaced the flys eye air cleaner because of poor performance from melting in backfires. Im saying there is a lot of rosen in this car!!!U can disagree but how r we to know if joel no longer answers emails . I believe it was aspecial project for this riley guy. there is aton of chrome on this car and it sat in a collection so it had to be special!!

[x Baldwin Motion]

http://www.yenko.net/photos/data/508/MotionVette1.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn70/bennojtb1/IMG_0112.jpg

[sYc]

Normally Joel does not give out information for free, you will need to send him $$$ to get a yes or no.

You can debate your car to death on here, but unless you get something in writing from Joel, and/or come up with documentation related to your car, to most folks it is simply another modified Corvette. Neat car none the less.

[Fast67VelleN2O]

that "Hertz" shifter must be pretty rare

[jtb]

That is the problem!!!! How to get in touch with Joel? My real question becomes what happens when Joel dies and nobody really knows what is baldwin motion!!!! Bill S. what is Joel's style that u can tell me that will define a baldwinmotion mechanical make up of a car or even the body if no two are alike???? Please explain ur comment better so I MAY UNDERSTAND BETTER!. THANKS 4 UR IMPUT!!!!

[jtb]

UR wit is overwhelming!!!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[jtb]

Tom give me the contact or email that he will respond to. I know I have to pay and thats not a problem. I came on this site for a reaction to my find and am killing time until he answers.I ' ve really enjoyed hearing every thing and I'm still looking 4 good answers. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

[jtb]

Bill S. I have a unique Question for u and maybe this will help me find the original owner and Joel would know this answer and distinctly know if its his or not! but ur expertise will help or maybe hurt! THe engine # has only 18 on the pad!! who would want to mark an engine #18 on the pad other than some one who would want to identify his engine mod. ???

[jtb]

Sorry I cant spell that well?? it was rather stupid!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

[sYc]

Here is where Joel hangs out.

Motion models (http://www.motionmodels.com/about.html)

[jtb]

Isn't that the point to debate what we might think baldwinmotion is or is not!!! It's easier for the later ones but what about the transitional ones. I went to his new co. web site and got that address. Hope he is just busy and not ill.

[x Baldwin Motion]

[ QUOTE ]
Isn't that the point to debate what we might think baldwinmotion is or is not!!! .........

[/ QUOTE ]

What part or parts of the car do you believe indicate it may have been modified by Motion? Is there any thing that suggests the car was ever in Baldwin NY? It really shouldn't be a debate of opinions, but rather a matter of fact.

[jtb]

I'm looking for leads because the paper trail is sketchy and the car spent most of its time in NY and NJ. I wanted to know what you all thought and why u though it and can you provide proof or just opinion.Opinion is find but statements backed by facts or pictures are the best. Therefore I'm looking for real answers rather than opinions but I love hearing them. Do you have avenues of investigation other than Joel? If so how, where?

[ronebee]

my 2 cents worth as a prior owner of a motion corvette and maybe an owner of three more motion corvettes.

I hear you, you want that car to be a motion vette, but without a trail of some sort your done. Gotta be a stream of proof somewere. Receipts? Something else stamped on the block? Is the parking brake in place? Is there a traction bar on the car? Anything?

You gotta spend the money with Joel. Joel is reachable and he will get back to you. Joel will tell you straight up, this is Vegas, and he will let you know straight up if what you have is for real, but you need to put your money up. Before I contacted Joel I would chase down every lead I had so that I could.

You need proof. Marty Schoor already contacted me about my Maco, and per Marty, "if you don't have any docs you probabley have a customer built car", and my car is well built, gotta be a shop built car from the day. But without Docs it ain't squat.

Your car is great. You need to chase down the leads and find out what you have. I hope none of my cars are for real, that way I can don't have to feel guilty about beating the living "s" out of them. Best of luck to you.

[SSjeff427]

In reference to getting in touch with Joel or Marty, it is really not that difficult.
I contacted both Joel and Marty and they returned my call.
Not only did they call me back, both of them were courteous and professional.
I informed them that I was building a tribute, recreation, clone, whatever you want to call it, with a lot of original Motion parts. They still spent quality time on the phone with me and I was very impressed that they still had a passion for cars. They both expressed their gratitude for how we carry on their legacy now.
Both gentleman offered me advice on certain aspects of getting the car correct. Of course, I made it clear I was doing it for me and not to sell.
Joel Rosen and Marty Schorr are both a class act in my book and I am thankful to both of them for giving some of their time to a young enthusiast like me.

[jtb]

I don't want to beat on this car if its a find. has only 27800k documented miles and its so great sounding and powerful its so hard not to put the hammer down.!!!! thanks!!! I posted on hear to help with the trail and get things I need to look for on it. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

[jtb]

Thanks for ur 2 cents worth!!! DO u or any one else know someone from eastern pa who would maybe know this riley guy or a big collecter from that area or even a car buff. Again thanks. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[jtb]

Did you ever run across a motor marked with 2 digits? do u kwow any one who does that? some body wanted to be able to identify it any answers anybody?????

[olredalert]

------That 2 didget number could have been stamped by any rebuilder on earth. I guess to be charitable, it could even have been stamped by Joel, but I doubt it. Im sure somebody here with more knowlege than me about Joels practices can tell you how he stamped (if he did) the engines Motion touched........Bill S

[jtb]

thanks!!

[jtb]

O K There are 14 new pictures on photobucket and the car has a traction bar[ have pic] there is the electric fan in front of the radiator all the chrome hood latches and bezel and the over sized brakes and modified fenders and flares. what else do u want to see. STILL NEED HELP on all this anybody else??? Hope'n more people comment. Also the engine pad #

[parkeracing]

You can get ahold of Joel here http://www.officialbaldwinmotion.com/contact.htm he is quite good at getting back in touch. As for typical Motion "touches" that presents a problem as all but the hood and XKE headlight nose you could get anywhere (and neither are on this car). BTW, I've always liked that spoiler, especially with a stinger stripe. I don't see any traction bar. They truly were parts bin engineered. What made them different was the 11.5 sec Motion guarentee and the 1 year Baldwin warrentee. The money is in the paper as RonBee said previously. Happy hunting.

[jtb]

Is there any motion owners who can tell me exact parts 0n a 68 or 69? STILL looking 4 answers !!!!!!! I'm willing to get part #s from the car!! any body even like this car?

[COPO]

As most have said, the parts that Motion typically used were off the shelf speed parts. Also since Motion ran a large mail order operation, many of these parts were sold to enthusiasts who would save the bucks and create their own Motion cars with parts ordered through the catalog to replicate the cars they would read about in the magazines. Unfortunately, your car does not seem to have some of the unique Motion parts which will make it enven more difficult to document.

Really the only thing you can do is find previous owners and try to trace the histroy back though the years. It might even be worthwhile to hire a PI if you run into a dead end. I don't think you are going to find answers here without doing a lot of detective work on your own. I've owned 5 Baldwin Motion cars and they have all been equipped differently. No two seem to be alike and without paperwork, you only have a modified car like thousands of others out there. Good luck in your hunt.

[jtb]

Thank you I was trying to do some of the hunting here but no real luck. Let me ask you whats a modified vet worth ? approximately? and I know its what some one would pay so I'm looking for real answers!! NCRS says they are not worth much. what do you all say!there is'nt any books on them

[ronebee]

rear end has end caps, not u bolts, so probabley an original bb car, shouldn't it have a 9 leaf for a rear spring as a hi-po car? gotta crawl under my 68 and take a look, this looks like a really nice modified car, still has short hood and looks like work was done back in the day. Remove some current "layers of cheese" (foot pedals,floor mats, mid console) and this looks like a great car. It's worth what somebody will pay. I'd drag it home but my wife already looks at me sideways, its a sin to be scared of a 118lb woman, but I have my reasons.

[jtb]

thanks. the traction bar is in front of the axle I took 3 pics because it was hard to see but look hard its there!

[jtb]

What is a BTW??? and XKE? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[jtb]

The AUGUST 2003 feature car has a 482 ci engine and few body mods. does any body have away of contacting him about whats on his engine pad????!!!! Love to talk to him!!! Email address for him?? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Dog427435]

BTW - By the way

XKE
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/dog427435/zIMG_0590.jpg

[jtb]

thanks. Hey I never seen those lights on an older BW. Is there any examples of a 1968 with that style??? of headlight that is.

[x Baldwin Motion]

[ QUOTE ]
BTW - By the way

XKE
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/dog427435/zIMG_0590.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

Glenn, you are now covering all bases. Good thing you had that Jag lying around just for reference purposes !! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[jtb]

I guess I came to the WRONG forum for advice http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif

[SuperNovaSS]

It sounds like you got some advise already. It sounds to me like you may have come to the right forum with the wrong attitude and impatience.

Jason

[ronebee]

[ QUOTE ]
It sounds like you got some advise already. It sounds to me like you may have come to the right forum with the wrong attitude and impatience.

Jason

[/ QUOTE ]
Amen. Listen it's rare that I jump in like this, but you gotta relax, you gotta check yourself before you wreck your self. You either have a real car or you don't, but guess what? It is what it is. Figure out what you have. I've owned two motion vettes, call me, I'll answer questions. Don't be a dick to these people, these are great people that want to help you. Relax, look at your car, enjoy it and try to figure out how it got to be what it is. Don't suck.

[Dave Rifkin]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess I came to the WRONG forum for advice http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Just because the advice you received wasn't what you wanted to hear doesn't mean you came to the wrong place. As stated by other members; these guys are EXTREMELY knowledeable and are always willing to offer their assistance (as they did in your case) but, you can't wish a car into being something it isn't.
Lighten up,accept and appreciate the advice that was given. Do some research on your own and, once you have gathered that information, contact Joel Rosen or present it to the guys here again. Documenting these cars isn't easy as many of the owners of Motion cars have already stated. The members here are willing to help but, you need to get your hands dirty yourself before you throw a tantrum.

[olredalert]

-----I dont know, jtb, my conscience is clear. I told you what I knew, nothing more, and you plainly didnt want to hear it so I quit. Enjoy your Corvette, Motion or not, and quit worrying about its value.......Bill S

[jtb]

One member came thru http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif to whom it may concern . more pictures and thanks for all that great info!!!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

[jtb]

You all missed what I was asking.. "A road map to specific answers and parts so that I can tract this car". Motion or not I still needed specific info not generalities. I also got it way back that joel will be the final answer. You get frustrated when your drowning and every one is throwing you anchors. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif Sorry no attitude hear just frustration

[parkeracing]

jtb-Do you have a pic of the traction bars? FWIW, the bars go from the bottom of the spring pad forward at a slight outward angle. The bars themselves look like the camber adjusting rods only about 3" longer.

[jtb]

Sorry for not answering sooner. I'm having stalling problems and I need to jack up the back end to get under far enough to take good pictures.I should get to it this weak.