WOW! The Find of a Lifetime! 1963 SD 421 Tempest!

[markjohnson]

WOW! Check out this auction! The owner just thought he had just an old '63 Tempest Drag car but it turns out to be the missing Stan Long Pontiac-sponsored factory built Super Duty 421 car. This car is 1-of-6 and only one other is accounted for. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110306170567#descripti on

[markjohnson]

Here's the car back in the day.

[mockingbird812]

Great find !! I hope you have the car under 24 hour guard with dogs and shotguns. This thing is so valuable I'm afraid someone might try to steal it....more
Answered on Nov-05-08
A: YEP = PITBULL WITH AIDS AND A SAWED OFF 12 GAUGE AUTOMATIC , GOT'ER UNDER CONTROL, THANKS

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[ORIGLS6]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif piece. Sure would be good to see this one brought back to life.

[Late BrakeU2]

A: No, I BELIEVE IT WAS ONE OWNER UNTIL HE PASSED AWAY LAST YEAR. IT WAS AQUIRED BY CURRENT OWNER BY WAY OF YEARS OF STORAGE BILL. THANKS

Sounds like the Leno Doosie,,talk about a blind squirrel finding acorn!

"Wild" Bill Shrewsberry..i remember him back in the day at OCIR driving the L.A dart wheelstand car..never knew he raced an AFX poncho for MT.

[flyingn]

the front is aluminum? Its rusting in the pics..

[markjohnson]

The aluminum front end has been replaced by a steel nose but the ORIGINAL aluminum front nose from this very car is still in the hands of an enthusiast. I hope they can be reunited. Check out the cool headers that were found in the trunk! I think it shows something like 3XXXX original miles. The freakin' tow bar is still hooked up to the front of the car!

[PeteLeathersac]

Whttp://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gifW!!!

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drool.gif
~ Pete

[SUSQ]

Awesome! Would love to see it brought back to its former glory. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[mockingbird812]

This needs to find its way to Tiemann's shop!

[John Brown]

[ QUOTE ]
Great find !! I hope you have the car under 24 hour guard with dogs and shotguns. This thing is so valuable I'm afraid someone might try to steal it....more
Answered on Nov-05-08
A: YEP = PITBULL WITH AIDS AND A SAWED OFF 12 GAUGE AUTOMATIC , GOT'ER UNDER CONTROL, THANKS

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, that was my question to him. I had no idea if he would post it or not. Cars less valuable have come up missing at car shows lately, and this guy is inviting people to come see it? I'd have armed guards and require 2 pieces of i.d. just to come on the property. Its good that he is going to let the auction run the course. I congratulate him on doing that. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif It's one heck of a find, and he had no idea when this all started. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

He posted more pictures on another ebay auction.

http://cgi.ebay.com/WORTHLESS-PICTURES_W...sspagenameZWDVW (http://cgi.ebay.com/WORTHLESS-PICTURES_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ72179QQihZ001Q QitemZ110306497395QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW)

It's amazing that the original factory stainless steel headers remain with the car. Tiemann wont have to build them when he does the restore. Just a shame that Randy Williams isn't here today to buy it.

[Bill Pritchard]

[ QUOTE ]
This needs to find its way to Tiemann's shop!

[/ QUOTE ]

X2! Wow, what a neat find....talk about fallin' into a bucket of you-know-what and comin' out smellin' like a rose http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drool.gif

[Tenney]

More than a little cool and agree ripe for a Tiemann dose.

[al8apex]

Incredible find and IF the price of scrap was higher it would have been a new Toyota ...

[markjohnson]

This being a FACTORY-BUILT A/FX car, it's neat to think of the cars' that this little Tempest lined up against back in the day : Z-11 Impalas, lightweight Max Wedges and fiberglass Ford Galaxies and Thunderbolts! WOW! Wish they could talk. When the auction started, the seller did not have access to the trunk (locked with no key), but did you see the updated pictures of what was finally found in he trunk?! The original Tri-Y headers AND the original SD421 Tempest exhaust manifolds with the factory balance tube and dumps! Simply incredible.

[Andy]

Very cool car. My mom has a 62 tempest and they are odd little cars. I know they aren't easy to find parts for.

[John Brown]

As I understand, when Randy Williams had Scott do the SD Tempest wagon, the radiator was scrap, so he contacted Harrison Radiator Division and had them pull the old blueprints and make a "brand new" radiator. It is something like the Corvette aluminum radiator but not that close. Since Harrison wanted big $$$$$$, and Randy wanted an exact radiator, he had Harrison make some extras. Scott might know where those extra radiators went and how to get a hold of one. That would be a hugh plus. Whoever gets that Tempest will have one of the rarest cars made. I'm sure they will have deep enough pockets to have it done right. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[x Baldwin Motion]

http://i1.ebayimg.com/01/i/001/18/90/a5f7_1.JPG

WORTHLESS PICTURES

"OK PEOPLE= ENUF IS ENUF... I POSTED THIS ITEM 24 HOURS AGO AND IT HAS 2000 HITS OR MY COUNTER IS BROKE.
ALL I CAN FIGURE OUT IS THAT PEOPLE ARE SEARCHING FOR PICTURES OF MCAIN OR OBAMA. WILL SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME WHY THERE ARE SO MANY VIEWS. I MIGHT EVEN POST IT."


You think this was a hint of something special?

[69hurstSC]

[ QUOTE ]
This being a FACTORY-BUILT A/FX car, it's neat to think of the cars' that this little Tempest lined up against back in the day : Z-11 Impalas, lightweight Max Wedges and fiberglass Ford Galaxies and Thunderbolts! WOW! Wish they could talk. When the auction started, the seller did not have access to the trunk (locked with no key), but did you see the updated pictures of what was finally found in he trunk?! The original Tri-Y headers AND the original SD421 Tempest exhaust manifolds with the factory balance tube and dumps! Simply incredible.

[/ QUOTE ]

not to mention the very first Race Hemi's debuted in January of 64.

[Rixls6]

Toooooooooooo Coooooooooool and WOW!!!
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[Brucebodyman]

check out the Ubly Dragway plate on the dash I just raced there a couple weeks ago. What a find. Just think how many of these type of cars are still out there. Makes you wonder if it weren't for the internet how many of these cars would we know about.

[Gary L]

I am currently reading Glory Days by Jim Wanger. These are the cars he was involved in while working for Pontiac. It is a very interesting story on how this type of car was developed.

[raw muscle cars]

Always great people finding great cars on this sight.
Someone besides me wants this car I've bid 2 now in 2 hours once I jumped 5 next I jumped 8 bothe times within 10 minuets gg has outbid me.. Im out at 52 easy 125 in resto nom motor trans and rear parts will be a fortune.. Im not sure all in at 200 is a smart move in the present economy, maybe Im wrong.....

richard

[Late BrakeU2]

Also being discussed here..the pit bull owner had a buy it now for 4k until someone spilled the beans-apparentely the steel front clip threw everyone off until someone actually checked the VIN from the manifest.
http://forums.performanceyears.com/forums/showthread.php?t=578923

[PeteLeathersac]

[ QUOTE ]
Here's the car back in the day.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cool pics Mark!.
Looking closely, the ding in the passenger's side of the rear bumper of the eBay car appears to be already there in the early pics too?.

~ Pete
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[Mr70]

Amazing find..
Funny replies on some of those ask the seller questions.

[x Baldwin Motion]

On Nov-05-08 at 16:40:24 PST, seller added the following information:

AS YOU ALL KNOW BY NOW , THIS IS THE SD THAT WAS DRIVEN BY STAN ANTLOCER. I,M NOT SURE ABOUT RETREIVING THE FRONT CLIP FROM FLORIDA,THAT WILL BE THE WINNERS QUEST. HOWEVER HOUSTON WE HAVE A PROBLEM. THE PAYMENT METHOD WAS FEDERAL RESERVE NOTES OR PAYPAL AND I CAN,T SEE TRYING TO PULL THIS MUCH MULA OUTTA PAYPAL. SO YOU NEED TO CONSIDER A DUFFLE BAG FULL OF THE GREEN STUFF. THANKS,DALE

[x Baldwin Motion]

[ QUOTE ]
Amazing find..
Funny replies on some of those ask the seller questions.

[/ QUOTE ]

Q: Congatulations on winning the lottery.... with so many Pontiac enthusiasts watching your auction I was wondering if you could post this message.I am looking for my fathers car a 1963 Tempest called the JOLLY GREEN GIANT.Run in the early through late 60`s throughout the midwest by JIM HUMIKOWSKI. NEVER OWNED OR DRIVEN BY ARNNIE BESWICK.He was just smart enough to market it.If you could post this I would be VERY THANKFULL. Anyone with info could please contact me at [email protected] THANK YOU VERY MUCH!! Nov-05-08
A: NOT SURE IF THAT WOULD BE EBAY POLICY TO DO THAT, SORRY

[JAD]

He was going to have it crushed when the price of steel went up.He took it in but they would not do it without a title.I see he has one now.

[Verne_Frantz]

Perhaps the guy in FL with the orig. front clip is bidding. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[1railman]

[ QUOTE ]
On Nov-05-08 at 16:40:24 PST, seller added the following information:

AS YOU ALL KNOW BY NOW , THIS IS THE SD THAT WAS DRIVEN BY STAN ANTLOCER. I,M NOT SURE ABOUT RETREIVING THE FRONT CLIP FROM FLORIDA,THAT WILL BE THE WINNERS QUEST. HOWEVER HOUSTON WE HAVE A PROBLEM. THE PAYMENT METHOD WAS FEDERAL RESERVE NOTES OR PAYPAL AND I CAN,T SEE TRYING TO PULL THIS MUCH MULA OUTTA PAYPAL. SO YOU NEED TO CONSIDER A DUFFLE BAG FULL OF THE GREEN STUFF. THANKS,DALE

[/ QUOTE ]
A person gets a tip that he has found a needle in a hatstack; and somehow figures his fortune found through the wonder of the internet is not being picked up on by Uncle Sam.
P.S. Now, auction may suddenly end.

[John Brown]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
On Nov-05-08 at 16:40:24 PST, seller added the following information:

AS YOU ALL KNOW BY NOW , THIS IS THE SD THAT WAS DRIVEN BY STAN ANTLOCER. I,M NOT SURE ABOUT RETREIVING THE FRONT CLIP FROM FLORIDA,THAT WILL BE THE WINNERS QUEST. HOWEVER HOUSTON WE HAVE A PROBLEM. THE PAYMENT METHOD WAS FEDERAL RESERVE NOTES OR PAYPAL AND I CAN,T SEE TRYING TO PULL THIS MUCH MULA OUTTA PAYPAL. SO YOU NEED TO CONSIDER A DUFFLE BAG FULL OF THE GREEN STUFF. THANKS,DALE

[/ QUOTE ]
A person gets a tip that he has found a needle in a hatstack; and somehow figures his fortune found through the wonder of the internet is not being picked up on by Uncle Sam.
P.S. Now, auction may suddenly end.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cars are often paid for with cash or other funds, bank transfers or the like. The difference in selling a car on ebay is -$0.00- for a no sale and -$125.00- if the sale completes. It's rare for a seller to take Paypal as full payment when selling a car, especially when Paypal payments can be reversed and leave you with no car and no money. 3% is a lot to pay when someone has to be present to do the transaction, no matter if he delivers it or it gets picked up. Bank transfer is probably the most safe and secure way for both buyer and seller.

[Donutblue]

I think this seller has a lot of spunk -- hope it works out great for him and the buyer. Look at this latest Q&A http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

Q: I am thinking I would like to consider paying $500,000 would this end the auction.???? Nov-07-08
A: if you place a bid that high you should own it, but thanks for the offer

[Verne_Frantz]

I agree. I think the seller is handling it very well, and has a sense of humor without being a wiseguy. He got burned once before by ending an auction early and says he'll never do that again. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif
The guy in the best position to buy the car is the guy with the original front end because he won't have to BUY the front end after he buys the car. If someone else buys it, I hope the front end makes it's way to the car, rather than it resulting in a tug of war.
In any case, it's probably the most interesting auction I"ve ever watched on ebay to date! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Verne http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[69hurstSC]

i agree, its been fun watching an undisputed factory racecar go through the gauntlet. ebay has had so many high interest cars result in debacles. its refreshing to see a car go from nearly sliced up to a potential high $ restoration.

[chevelleheart]

No Question , Hope to see this car restored to it's former glory

[Charley Lillard]

Might be cheaper to have a metal master shop make new sheet metal.

[Verne_Frantz]

[ QUOTE ]
Might be cheaper to have a metal master shop make new sheet metal.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was thinking the same thing Charley. OF course, the original front clip would be the perfect ending, but if the new owner can't get it (for one reason or another) I'm sure he'll have one made. Then what happens to the value of the one in FL??????

It's happened with Z-11s. There are restored cars out there and other people who cling onto the original aluminum for them. But we're jumping the gun with theories.
I hope that once a new owner is known, the principal parties will participate in a web forum to keep the rest of us updated on the progress of this super rare car. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

Verne http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[x Baldwin Motion]

$84,700 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p3907.m32&_trkparms =tab%3DWatching&item=110306170567&viewitem=)

6pm http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

still half a dozen players at the high end of this auction !!

[BARNFOUND YENKO]

O bidder, Ouch! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[John Brown]

[ QUOTE ]
$84,700 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p3907.m32&_trkparms =tab%3DWatching&item=110306170567&viewitem=)

6pm http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

still half a dozen players at the high end of this auction !!

[/ QUOTE ]


And 28,000 viewers..... that's awesome.

[PhilS]

That's going to be a really expensive restoration!

[tjs44]

IF the guy that owns the front end and IF the guy that owns the transaxle will sell them to the new owner.I figure about 75K plus putting a correct 63 421 engine together.Wont be for the weak heart or wallet.Tiemann looked at it for me and thinks after being stripped it will need some metal pieces as there have been a lot of critters living in it for a long time.Tom

[Tenney]

[ QUOTE ]
IF the guy that owns the front end and IF the guy that owns the transaxle will sell them to the new owner.

[/ QUOTE ]

Two big wild cards for sure ...

Maybe one (or both) of them are among those on the car at this point?

[tjs44]

maybe trans guy but not front end guy.Tom

[csx289]

Guy who has the front clip wanted $60-70k when the car was thought to be lost forever. I'm guessing he'd want more now http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

Transaxle was sold to current owner for around $15k. I bet it has gone up, too?

Let's not talk about trying to get one of the Randy Williams repo radiators that can not be purchased I am told, so that means making another run? Big bucks.

Tiemann seemed to think $125-$150k plus parts for the resto. The big kicker is 2+ years before he could start...

The car needs to be saved, and it will, but it sure won't be cheap. I did the math and came up with about $400-500k, and about 4-5 years of a full time general contracting gig http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif This is all based on buying the shell for $125k, and it wouldn't shock me if it goes for more in the eBay red mist!

Colin

[tjs44]

I sold the transaxle to the current owner.Tom

[Tenney]

[ QUOTE ]
I did the math and came up with about $400-500k,

[/ QUOTE ]

What did the George DeLorean car do at auction? Wonder how they compare re: race history ...

Cool little cars. Angry white wagon must be one 'o the all-time greats.

[69hurstSC]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
IF the guy that owns the front end and IF the guy that owns the transaxle will sell them to the new owner.

[/ QUOTE ]

Two big wild cards for sure ...

Maybe one (or both) of them are among those on the car at this point?

[/ QUOTE ]

Probally one of the greatest examples of 2 guys not putting one car together is the Silver Bullet. Ever been on Woodward and seen both cars on dispaly on different lots? Cant really blame either guy, just doesnt seem like there ever going to work that one out? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Tenney]

[/ QUOTE ]

Probally one of the greatest examples of 2 guys not putting one car together is the Silver Bullet. Ever been on Woodward and seen both cars on dispaly on different lots? Cant really blame either guy, just doesnt seem like there ever going to work that one out? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.greenval.info/magstories/silverbullet/index.htm

[ANDY M]

A good read, but it would be nice if he knew how to spell "Detriot". http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif Shameful mistake for an editor of an automotive article, especially if you sound it out as Det-riot. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[BARNFOUND YENKO]

$90,500 with an hour and a half left.

[CC Rider]

Can't wait to see the final bid.

[RamAirDave]

I'm sure there will be a flurry of auto/max bids in the last few seconds.

Kinda cool to see an ebay auction of a car like this played out until the end.

[BARNFOUND YENKO]

$226K WOW!

[GTO_DON]

Somebody has way toooooo much money!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[budnate]

yowza...90,500...jumps to 120...BAM 226..in the final seconds...about fell out of the chair..the seller just crapped his pants http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif

[JIM]

And to think it could have been bought for $4000.00 early on !!!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif
Jim

[Eddie M.]

WOW! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

[markjohnson]

Was that exciting or what!? That seller just made close to a quarter million dollars on a car that he expected $4000 for. Unbelievable!

[BARNFOUND YENKO]

Checkout the parts the winning bidder has purchased lately for this car??, $16k for a set of heads and an intake. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif Id go give the guy at the scrapyard $10k for not accepting/crushing it. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[tjs44]

the new owner is a pontiac nut.He bought my 69 RA V T/A a few month back.Scott Tiemann will restore the car.Tom

[markjohnson]

Thanks, Tom. That's great to know. I don't think anybody's done more Super Duty's than Scott. Over the course of the past week, this car has become famous nationwide. It will now be forever known as the Stan Long/E-Bay car.

[RamAirDave]

I'm sure it won't happen, but wouldn't you just love to see this thing back on the strip every chance it gets?

Not just once or twice a year, but on a regular basis?

[PhilS]

Hey, Pontiacs are in!

[GTO_DON]

Never mind that http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gifI want to see the size of that Bag of Cash he requested http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

[1railman]

[ QUOTE ]
Checkout the parts the winning bidder has purchased lately for this car??, $16k for a set of heads and an intake. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif Id go give the guy at the scrapyard $10k for not accepting/crushing it. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Also, check out last three bids!!!!

[HEMIBEE]

Gee Don and you thought I was lucky. Christmas at that guy's house will be nice I am sure.

[olredalert]

-------We know what the bidder paid, but wouldnt you like to know what he bid??? Seller just bought a house,,,LOL......Bill S

[SIR-VIVOR]

Just proves that there's no recession for great stuff!

[pSYCo]

chris, WHY ARE YOU AWAKE ??????

[GTO_DON]

[ QUOTE ]
Just proves that there's no recession for great stuff!

[/ QUOTE ]I hear you on that but I got to be honest. I dont care if theres only six of those cars. That car was not worth that kind of money. That was a waste to me. IT will never be what it once was and to think what else you could do with that kind of money makes me sick! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[JRSully]

It was obviously purchased by a guy who is absolutely not concerned about the investment value of the car vs resto costs etc. because as Don mentioned, it doesn't make sense what he paid for it. I would love to be in that position.!

[ANDY M]

Jay Leno said that he was the president of the "More Money than Brains Club", maybe this guys the VP. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif

[jannes_z-28]

The winner must be one cool dude, he placed his automatic bid just 5 seconds before it ended, no bids from him earlier. Check out the bids and show the automatic bids.

I wonder how high his heart rate was at that moment.

Great buy.


Jan

[Postsedan]

Wow! What an amazing story. Can you imagine how this seller must feel, I bet he`s going to Disney Land.... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

Dan.

[Chevy454]

[ QUOTE ]
The winner must be one cool dude, he placed his automatic bid just 5 seconds before it ended, no bids from him earlier. Check out the bids and show the automatic bids.

[/ QUOTE ]
Nah, sniper program...winner doesn't have to be tied to a computer then.

[69hurstSC]

its like finding out that crappy painting above your toilet is a legit Picasso. this guy just hit the lottery.

[firstgenaddict]

May be a snipe program however I do them myself... with less than 5 secs to go in the auction...

[Tarrytown SS427s]

Whats the deal with the winning bidder ID? I was able to see the winners username last night, but now it is "protected", as are the winning bidders on all other ended auctions. What is eBay doing??
Steve

[tjs44]

FYI,the only other restored SD coupe sold for 700K!I think the new owner has room to wiggle after the restoration.Tom

[John Brown]

[ QUOTE ]
Whats the deal with the winning bidder ID? I was able to see the winners username last night, but now it is "protected", as are the winning bidders on all other ended auctions. What is eBay doing??
Steve

[/ QUOTE ]

Winning bidders i.d. was <font color="red">ccsi2000</font> , at least that's what showed up last night. It was the 0***0 just a while ago and I wondered the same thing. Can't blame him if he asked for a little protection.

[Tarrytown SS427s]

Yeah, I was able to see his ID last night, but now it looks like ebay is blocking winners ID now too, because it is the same way on all ebay auctions.
Steve

[SuperNovaSS]

That has been going on for a long time. I think their programming is catching up so it is sometimes hit and miss. Its nothing new.



Jason

[tjs44]

FYI,I helped line up the original frontend and a original SD transaxle for it today so with Tiemanns help it WILL be what it once was.Im sure the mags will pick it up and the project will be great to watch.Tom

[69hurstSC]

[ QUOTE ]
FYI,I helped line up the original frontend and a original SD transaxle for it today so with Tiemanns help it WILL be what it once was.Im sure the mags will pick it up and the project will be great to watch.Tom

[/ QUOTE ]

sorry, no original motor (which is practically impossible)the car wont be perfect.

[mockingbird812]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
FYI,I helped line up the original frontend and a original SD transaxle for it today so with Tiemanns help it WILL be what it once was.Im sure the mags will pick it up and the project will be great to watch.Tom

[/ QUOTE ]

sorry, no original motor (which is practically impossible)the car wont be perfect.

[/ QUOTE ]

original motor in a S/S or AFX car is nearly unheard of. If it does have an original motor it wasn't run hard and didn't win many races or it was restamped http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif . Also, these early cars did not have partial VINS like the late 60's cars so there is no definitive way to determine originality in most cases. Non-original motors in this stratospheric realm does not hurt the car at all (imho) This car was bot right and will bring a ton when and if it resurfaces on the market (again imho) http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Bill Pritchard]

[ QUOTE ]
Non-original motors in this stratospheric realm does not hurt the car at all (imho)

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree 110%....especially when the car is as well documented as this one obviously is!

And kudos to Tom for already helping to line up the ultra-rare parts that this car needs http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[bkhpah]

Some of the comments about this super rare AFX Tempest just make me laugh. On the Yenko site, more than any other site I can think of, has more super rare expensive cars in one place, yet we have people talking smack on this car. One of six! I have seen project Yenko's sell for more than this car all the time. And there are plenty of Yenko cars compared to the Tempest. A Yenko Camaro is basic Camaro other than a few small items. But this Tempest like most of the full on Factory Drag Cars of that era, are amazing feats of engineering. From the rare aluminum body parts, transaxles, special hi-po engines that never made it into production cars,etc this car seems like a bargain. I for one love the idea it will get restored to its former glory, by one of the best in the business. This may be the find of 08'..BKH

[chevelleheart]

Totally Agree , this is one of thee best , if not THE BEST sroty in the past 5 yrs !!! Can't wait to follow it's resto, hopefully on this site !

[bkhpah]

The 68' Dana Camaro comes to mind..BKH http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[tjs44]

I have not talked to Stan since the auction ended.Question how the front end from a Michigan was in West Virginia and then sold by someone in Ohio to someone in FLA around 1979.Also if he ever blew up the original motor now rummered to be owned by someone.Still lots of unanswered stuff to unfold.And yes this car should be spoke in the same breath as the likes of a 69 T/A convert.There were actually 8 coupes but 6 white "production" cars.Tom

[69hurstSC]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
FYI,I helped line up the original frontend and a original SD transaxle for it today so with Tiemanns help it WILL be what it once was.Im sure the mags will pick it up and the project will be great to watch.Tom

[/ QUOTE ]

sorry, no original motor (which is practically impossible)the car wont be perfect.

[/ QUOTE ]

original motor in a S/S or AFX car is nearly unheard of. If it does have an original motor it wasn't run hard and didn't win many races or it was restamped http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif . Also, these early cars did not have partial VINS like the late 60's cars so there is no definitive way to determine originality in most cases. Non-original motors in this stratospheric realm does not hurt the car at all (imho) This car was bot right and will bring a ton when and if it resurfaces on the market (again imho) http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

but you have to agree that if the original motor (which is rumored to exist) ends up with the factory body the price value WILL go up. this is common sense. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[JIM]

I am confusd Now will the restoration include returning it to as built spec's or leave it as raced. Isn't it worth more and more well known as a drag car as it was the fastest car in 63????????????

Jim http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[Paul D]

This is amazing.....ya gotta love the PHS documentation and the great work of Pete McCarthy and his incredible book on the factory race Pontiac Super Duties.

I probably have this story a little wrong, so the Pontiac guys can chime in, but didn't one of these Tempest SD Coupes win the Daytona 200 mile Race of Champions, and maybe lap the second place car?? Then as the story goes, it was bought by Mercedes (or Porshe?), taken to Germany and reverse engineered, never to appear again??

[Jeff H]

This should be a really cool project to see restored. But I keep thinking that it doesn't look that much like a factory built race car. Is there really that much of the original car missing? Was there a roll bar in the car back in the racing days? Obviously the VIN will prove what car it is, but is looks like a very basic car the way it sits now. Did somebody swap a ton of parts over to the body and repaint it back in the day? Can't wait to watch this one. Great find! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[PhilS]

It's interesting to watch the ebb and flow of the hobby. Just a few years ago these factory race car got very little love. I almost had to beg someone to buy my fully restored Z-11. At that time you could sell a high end musclecar with a couple of phone calls. When I bought the car the owner also had one of these Tempests. It took him a long time to move that car. Out of his 40 or so cars it and the Z-11 would now be the first to sell but then they were near the last. I think that was about 7 years ago.

[John Brown]

[ QUOTE ]
This is amazing.....ya gotta love the PHS documentation and the great work of Pete McCarthy and his incredible book on the factory race Pontiac Super Duties.

I probably have this story a little wrong, so the Pontiac guys can chime in, but didn't one of these Tempest SD Coupes win the Daytona 200 mile Race of Champions, and maybe lap the second place car?? Then as the story goes, it was bought by Mercedes (or Porshe?), taken to Germany and reverse engineered, never to appear again??

[/ QUOTE ]

That's the story in the Angeles / McCarthy book. It shows the Paul Goldsmith driven / Ray Nichels prepared "Daytona" LeMans as "dissapeared". Gotta extend the search to include Germany now. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

[olredalert]

-----Go back thru the posts and I think you will read that the paint is mostly original. I have heard that Pontiac knew going in that their strange rear-end wouldnt have the durability and an axle and trans kit was made up by Pontiac. It is possible that this "kit" may have been first trialed in this car..........Bill S

[Tenney]

[ QUOTE ]
I am confusd Now will the restoration include returning it to as built spec's or leave it as raced. Isn't it worth more and more well known as a drag car as it was the fastest car in 63????????????

Jim http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

The look on Tiemann's mug might be worth something http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
... otherwise go as-built all day long - transaxle's a pretty key ingredient.

[Tenney]

[/ QUOTE ]

but you have to agree that if the original motor (which is rumored to exist) ends up with the factory body the price value WILL go up. this is common sense. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, if there was another Stan Long SD Tempest and this one finds its born-with motor. Unless, of course, the one with the replacement engine has a cooler history ...

[camarojoe]

This original motor stuff seems funny to me considering it's a historic race car. If you found Jenkins' original "Grumpy's Toy" 69 Camaro in this condition would you say it "could never be perfect" because it no longer had the 396/375 it was delivered from the factory with? I know I wouldn't.

[Kim_Howie]

The org. motor won't make it worth any more. The quality of the resto will determine the value.

[69hurstSC]

[ QUOTE ]
The org. motor won't make it worth any more. The quality of the resto will determine the value.

[/ QUOTE ]

disagree. its like having a 2 identical COPO's sitting side by side. both restored pristine by the same shop. one has the original motor the other has a factory replacement. GUARANTEE at auction the original motor car goes for more jack.

[Xplantdad]

Wes, what I think they are saying is that this is a one of 6 race car...not a one of 200-300 COPO...

Race car engines didn't last long...and if they did...there was something wrong! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[musclecarjohn]

2008...the year of the barn find!

[tjs44]

if you have 2 cars and neither have the original motors what does it matter?If there are 5-10-15 cars in the USA to chose from I agree but when there are only 2 cars in the country NBD.JMHO,Tom

[69hurstSC]

[ QUOTE ]
This original motor stuff seems funny to me considering it's a historic race car. If you found Jenkins' original "Grumpy's Toy" 69 Camaro in this condition would you say it "could never be perfect" because it no longer had the 396/375 it was delivered from the factory with? I know I wouldn't.

[/ QUOTE ]

well, if I had Richard Petty's 64 Plymouth that won the Daytona 500 and had a 67 Hemi motor in it, but had the chance to own the original motor (which Petty had junked out behind the raceshop) the answer to your question is pretty obvious.

[92646]

Tom, I have seen some of your cars at the local car shows over the years and it seems that if there is anything exotic in the Pontiac world you are the go-to guy. How did you aquire all this knowledge, all those parts and those great cars?
Mark Sheppard

[tjs44]

thanks for the kind words,just about 46 years of being a pontiac fool.I raced with Jess Tyree for a couple years and then on my own.I have always kind of been attached to the early 60s SD stuff and as many on this site know networking and keeping stuff in your"hip pocket" for a day you or a "right guy" might need it comes in handy.I then crossed over to the dark side of the unobtanium of the 69-70 RA V tunnel port stuff.Tom

[P.J.]

[ QUOTE ]
This original motor stuff seems funny to me considering it's a historic race car. If you found Jenkins' original "Grumpy's Toy" 69 Camaro in this condition would you say it "could never be perfect" because it no longer had the 396/375 it was delivered from the factory with? I know I wouldn't.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes Joe Im with you.A race car and its history is the important part of the car. I dont beleive that any race cars
have the original motor.
Peter

[Xplantdad]

I've seen Tom's Trans Am in person (at the Pavillions) and it was a really nice car!

The knowledge on this site never ceases to amaze me http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[njsteve]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This original motor stuff seems funny to me considering it's a historic race car. If you found Jenkins' original "Grumpy's Toy" 69 Camaro in this condition would you say it "could never be perfect" because it no longer had the 396/375 it was delivered from the factory with? I know I wouldn't.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes Joe Im with you.A race car and its history is the important part of the car. I dont beleive that any race cars
have the original motor.
Peter

[/ QUOTE ]

Most of the rare hemi-powered Sox&amp;Martin cars were delivered to them as a "body in white" shell. They then cannibalized a real car to add the trim pieces to it, so it's not like they ever had an "original engine." I remember seeing a vintage 1970 magazine article years ago (maybe Hot Rod) that showed them building their 1970 Pro Stock hemicuda. They had a body in white next to a brand new hemicuda and they were stripping the street car to add the parts to the race car. The engine in the street car was just another hemi to add to the arsenal of engines in the back room.

[bashton]

The 71 Sox &amp; Martin HemiCuda was delivered as a body-in-white.

sixtiesmuscle...are you out there? I am sure Mike can educate all of us on this particular car.

BA

[jeffschevelle]

If it were mine (ha ha, like I could ever afford that), I would restore it to "as-raced" condition, with the big car rear axle, graphics and all, and have the original transaxle, torque tube, bellhousing, etc., restored and sitting beside of it, just like it would have looked in Stan's shop the day he completed all the alterations!!

IMO, if the other car is already restored to as-delivered condition, then doing this one as-raced and then showing both cars together (along with the removed parts) would be an absolutely incredible display. (Why have the two of them identically restored??)

[tjs44]

I think the owner and Tiemann will decide what to do for history sake.Maybe even a hybred,luvered hood with scoop and lettered up as Stan raced it but with the trans axle under it?Time will tell.Tom

[jeff morocco]

this story made the fox news this morning

[Fast67VelleN2O]

Is this picture of this car by any chance????
http://www.vv4you.com/DRAG/4D.jpg

[al8apex]

[ QUOTE ]
Is this picture of this car by any chance????
http://www.vv4you.com/DRAG/4D.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

SUNDAY, SUNDAY, SUNDAY at Detroit Dragway .... see the Ramchargers versus the Bounty Hunter ...

wow that picture sure brings back memories ...

[Brucebodyman]

I believe that car was raced by George DeLorean