Nice Pair Of..................

[427.060]

Z-16s on Ebay.
James

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Truc...%3A1|240%3A1308 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___1965-Chevelle-Malibu-SS-Z16-2-rare-cars-sold-as-a-pair_W0QQitemZ150312703734QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20Truck sQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash= item150312703734&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=6 5%3A3|39%3A1|240%3A1308)

[HPMIKE]

"with the original numbers re-established on the front pad"

Ugh... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Xplantdad]

Chev. Connection cars...

[njsteve]

[ QUOTE ]
"with the original numbers re-established on the front pad"

Ugh... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

What BS will they think up next? That's like saying, the seller didn't rape you, he simply performed "unlaterally consensual intercourse" on your bank account. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

[olredalert]

-----Hey Steve,,,At least he says something! Im assuming a non-original block like everyone else, but it could be that the original engine was decked. I know, I know, the eternal optomist, and you probably dont think thats an OK scenario either anyway.........Bill S

[jeffschevelle]

# 24 (as they refer to it in the auction) has the original born with block with original stamp. It was separated from the car for years but was reunited (thanks to the efforts of Terry Gunter) prior to restoration.

The original block to #54 (as they refer to it in the auction) was in the NCOA giveaway car, and has since been decked and restamped to match the giveaway car (an absolute shame). The #54 car was believed to be lost forever, and suddenly surfaced at a cruisein in CA being driven by an 80 year old man who had had it in his basement since 1968.

So the block in #54 is a restamp, done to match the legit protect-o-plate that is with the car. I think that's OK as long as it is disclosed, as the seller has done in this case. The danger is whether or not the next owner will disclose it!!

[GRB]

Since we had one of those in the family I'd like have one of those cars. Too bad the stock mkt. tanked. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[68CamSS]

# 24= $650,000
# 54= $100,000
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[427.060]

How many Z-16s have the original blocks? How much does not having it affect the value?
James

[markinnaples]

You know, I am just shocked that the NCOA would have had the block decked and restamped.

I would think that most car clubs / owners assoc. would be the LAST to want to have something restampled....

[P.J.]

Why would NCOA deck a perfect original block to a really rare car before exhausting all avenues to find the orig car.Or leave the orig stamp on the motor in order to someday find its orig car.
That does not make any sense to me. Am I missing something http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
PJ

[olredalert]

------Was that restamping under Marks watch??? I am as amamzed as anyone.........Bill S

[Stefano]

That is just crazy http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif Restamp an original Z16 Block??? I have many original blocks belonging to special cars and they will never be restamped while in my custody.

[MosportGreen66]

Restamps dominate the hobby today (Corvettes especially)

I think a restamp can be used in two fashions... 1) a way of falsifying a car, to make the motor appear original or 2) a final touch on the restoration to bring it one step closer to its original condition with no intent to deceive.

As long as the motor is described as being original or not, I see no issues with a restamp. Personally, I'd never own a car with a restamped motor, but each to his own.

[njsteve]

The saddest part of all is that if a block is decked, you can still get a photographable image of the original stamping through employing basic crime scene technology. But once you restamp it, you have lost that opportunity forever.

Crime scene techs lift serial numbers all the time, finding ground off serial numbers from stolen firearms, machinery, engine blocks, etc.

If you have a decked Chevy block I would recommend contacting your local police department and ask them who processes their crime scenes for serial number evidence. The guys that do the number lifting are always looking for some realistic iron to practice on. You really have nothing to lose - if they can't lift the numbers, you're still in the same spot as you were before. And if you do get the numbers lifted, you have just added immeasurably to your car's value.

[iluv69s]

[ QUOTE ]
But once you restamp it, you have lost that opportunity forever.



[/ QUOTE ]

Why is that?? I would think the original stamping is still in the block and can be "lifted" from the deck whether its been re-stamped or not... But Im no expert, thats for sure...

[njsteve]

The basic principal is that when metal is stamped, the stamp compresses (stresses) that section of metal in forming the visible image of the letter/number. Decking the block removes a thin layer of the metal but does not relieve the original stamped (stressed) area. Therefore, by using a heat process or acid and electricity process, they can get a ghost image to appear on the surface of the metal that appears for a long enough time to photograph it. If you stamp over that area, you altered that preexisting compressed area of metal and destroyed it.

Here's some light reading on the subject:

http://lucy.mrs.org/2006brazil/wedpix/j502.pdf

http://cms.ucok.edu/chemistry/Vonminden/files/Serial%20Number%20Restoration%20Lecture.pdf

[P.J.]

OK now to get back my orig statement, why would NCOA restamp that block. Does anyone know the story??? And how did it find its way back to the orig car.Do we know that it really belongs to this car?????
PJ

[x Baldwin Motion]

http://www.chevconnection.com/images/Car54photo22.gif

I like the "cowl induction" hood http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif

[NWHofH_TCB]

In regards to my two black Z16s... Jeff Helms' statements are mostly accurate. Car #54 was sold new at "Courtesy Chevrolet" to Mr. Nobuhiro Oshiro who owned a speed shop in Los Angeles, California.
He immediately pulled the 396 and replaced it with the new 427 that had just landed at the Chevy dealer's parts department. He kept the car until 1967 when Tony Sanzone (now 83 years old), bought it for his son.
In 1969, Tony's son decided a Corvette was more his style and gave the car back to his dad. The car was driven by Tony semi-regularly to the tune of about 59,000 miles.
Tony and his wife moved to Oregon City, Oregon in about 2002 and brought the Z16 with them.
On February 17, 2006 I got a phone call from this ol' boy responding to my "Muscle Cars Wanted" ad. Guess who? Yep, Tony Sanzone. And it turns out that he lives about 2 1/2 miles from me. Needless to say I was in his driveway before hanging up my cell phone.
Obviously I bought the car. When I came back later to pick it up I brought my wife and a couple of buddies to photograph the entire transaction. Let's face it, who is going to believe an 80-year-old man still owns a 59,000 mile Z16 with the Protect-O-Plate still in the glovebox!
As far as the "original" motor is concerned, some guy calls me a couple years ago and tells me the same story Jeff tells (maybe it was Jeff?). However, what good is an overpriced, decked and restamped block to me. I already have one of those. Besides that, how do I know this guy's telling the truth? Had he left the numbers alone I would have paid plenty. So there you have it.

[NWHofH_TCB]

Back in the day it was common for Californians to deliberately adjust the back of the hood upwards to keep the engine cool. Early cowl induction -- maybe?

[Seattle Sam]

P.J. and Markinnaples,

[ QUOTE ]


The original block to #54 (as they refer to it in the auction) was in the NCOA giveaway car, and has since been decked and restamped to match the giveaway car (an absolute shame). The #54 car was believed to be lost forever, and suddenly surfaced at a cruisein in CA being driven by an 80 year old man who had had it in his basement since 1968.

[/ QUOTE ]

I read this to say the motor was in the giveaway car, and was decked and restamped after the car was given away (key word "since"). If I owned #54 I would try to get that block back even with the restamp. You would still have the original block back where it belongs and it sounds like you could document the original stamp as well as the restamp.

[jeffschevelle]

[ QUOTE ]
Why would NCOA deck a perfect original block to a really rare car before exhausting all avenues to find the orig car.Or leave the orig stamp on the motor in order to someday find its orig car.
That does not make any sense to me. Am I missing something http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
PJ

[/ QUOTE ]

It was not NCOA or Mark that decked and stamped the original block to #54. It was someone who owned it after it was given away by NCOA (either the winner or a subsequent person).

[jeffschevelle]

[ QUOTE ]
As far as the "original" motor is concerned, some guy calls me a couple years ago and tells me the same story Jeff tells (maybe it was Jeff?). However, what good is an overpriced, decked and restamped block to me. I already have one of those. Besides that, how do I know this guy's telling the truth? Had he left the numbers alone I would have paid plenty. So there you have it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wasn't me! Plus I'd never hold someone else's numbers hostage -- I sold the original block to another Z16 to the owner of that car for $3500 a couple of years ago, when IX blocks without living cars were bringing $5000.

I agree completely the original block for #54 is not worth NEARLY what it would be worth if it hadn't been restamped. However, it should still be worth some amount more than 'just any' early 962 block, since it can be proven that it is in fact the original block from #54. If I recall correctly, there are pics in the Chevelle Report from when the giveaway car was being raffled that show the pad stampings. I'll try to find one of those issues and send a copy of the pic to you.

So, as long as it could be shown that the block being offerred was the block from the giveaway car (which I guess would be shown by it having the restamped serial no. of the giveaway car on it), then I'd have to think hard about ponying up to purchase it to have it with the car (even if not installed). Black/black red is plenty rare enough (only 4 cars known based on the Registry list), but having the orig. block would be even better!

Good luck with the auction! Jeff

[P.J.]

OK thanks Jeff now I am stsrting to understand the history.
If a pic of the stamping was taken at the time of the giveaway, case closed.
PJ http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[NWHofH_TCB]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So, as long as it could be shown that the block being offerred was the block from the giveaway car (which I guess would be shown by it having the restamped serial no. of the giveaway car on it), then I'd have to think hard about ponying up to purchase it to have it with the car (even if not installed). Black/black red is plenty rare enough (only 4 cars known based on the Registry list), but having the orig. block would be even better!

[/ QUOTE ]

If the engine is available at an amount that makes sense, I'll buy it. Do you mind doing the homework or if not, passing the contacts on to me? Also, if the guy with my motor has concerns about finding a replacement then maybe we could work a trade. My current Z16 engine is all new and done right with over $18,000.00 in receipts and less than 100 miles since completed. Your help is appreciated, Mark http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[jeffschevelle]

[ QUOTE ]
If the engine is available at an amount that makes sense, I'll buy it. Do you mind doing the homework or if not, passing the contacts on to me? Your help is appreciated, Mark http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I sent you a P.M. Jeff