ZL-1 City

[Jerry@CHP]

This is something you won't see everyday. Two original ZL-1 engines sitting next to one another. We brought both back from the dead. Cylinder explosions, cracks, etc. One is out of ZL-1 #17 and the other is out of car #34. Both made stellar hp on the dyno in bone stock condition w/180 camshafts. Used some of my Stock Eliminator tricks and different ring combinations. 543hp on one and 558hp on the other. Made about 10 pulls on each one. Like to see what I could make with some mods?? The 302 in my new 67 Z28 race car makes 475hp. I'll have to post dyno sheets. Both 427s made just under 500lb ft of torque.

Enjoy,

Jerry

[GenOne]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif Nice work Jerry! What I would do to have those two engines sitting in my garage ....

[CJP_69]

Nice job on the engines Jerry. It was great to finally meet you last week. Thanks for coming up. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif
Chris

[Chris_69_SS]

Man...I made 605 HP with 049 oval ports and 10-1 comp!

[jeff morocco]

those look awesome sitting there........just imagine if you had access to these back in the day!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o229/killr68/yenkochevrolet1982.jpg

[Jerry@CHP]

Chris,

You would have loved my ride back in the late 1970s and early '80s. All steel 1966 Chevelle original SS396 car with an old worked over Super Stock 427 that I built. Back then it dynoed over 660hp. This 3500lb tank went 9.70s and 9.80s at 132 mph in the heat! Note the 9.83 dial-in on the windshield. This photo was taken at Maple Grove over 25 years ago when they still had a walking bridge across the staging lanes. The NHRA NED Bracket Finals. Those were the days. When you stepped on the gas, it got your attention!

I still miss that car!

Jerry

[VintageMusclecar]

Jerry;

Very nice, and very "believable" numbers! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

If I may ask, what kind of dyno do you use, and do you run sweep or step tests?

Eric

[Jerry@CHP]

Eric,

Super Flow Dyno doing run sweep tests. Set at 300rpm per second.

Bub Whitaker's Burtonsville Machine is where our testing is done. Bub has one of the best reputations in the nation for Stock and Super Stock engines. Many, many NHRA national record holders. Very well respected and his dyno numbers are on the conservative side.

Jerry

Jerry

[VintageMusclecar]

[ QUOTE ]
Eric,

Super Flow Dyno doing run sweep tests. Set at 300rpm per second.

Bub Whitaker's Burtonsville Machine is where our testing is done. Bub has one of the best reputations in the nation for Stock and Super Stock engines. Many, many NHRA national record holders. Very well respected and <u>his dyno numbers are on the conservative side.</u>

Jerry

Jerry

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed!...again, those sound like very honest numbers. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

As a side-note re: dyno figures...

About 25 years ago, the late John Lingenfelter took an out-of-the-crate GM LS7 454 and ran it on his dyno with a 163 intake, an 850 Holley and big-tube headers. Without any "fluff", it made 489 HP @ 6000 and 481 ft.lbs @ 4000.

(For those who may not know, that's a 12.2-1 454 with open chamber rectangular port heads and a solid lifter cam with .578/.612 lift and 262°-272° @ .050, as actually measured in this particular engine)

Talk about "honest" numbers. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

(at one point in the test he bolted on an out-of-the-box Holley Strip Doinator intake, and the engine responded by actually losing 20 HP and 30 ft.lbs at some points!...who says those factory intakes don't work http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif )

If a builder tried to deliver an engine like that today with those numbers, he'd be ran outt'a town!

And yet I still hear people today saying a crate LS7 would make 600+ out of the box. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

Funny thing is, I can remember back in the `80's, there were more LS7-based engines running around the local tracks here than you could shake a stick at--and it was the norm for them to click off 10 second passes in a typically set-up "no tricks" bracket car.

Not bad for a measely 500-ish HP. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Jerry, it's not like you need any of my approval, but this is a great thread. Excellent job. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

(Oh, btw...if anyone would like to reference the LS7 I mentioned, the build can be found in the November 1984 issue of Hot Rod magazine. The article is titled "Mail Supremacy")

[Stefano]

[ QUOTE ]
Chris,

You would have loved my ride back in the late 1970s and early '80s. All steel 1966 Chevelle original SS396 car with an old worked over Super Stock 427 that I built. Back then it dynoed over 660hp. This 3500lb tank went 9.70s and 9.80s at 132 mph in the heat! Note the 9.83 dial-in on the windshield. This photo was taken at Maple Grove over 25 years ago when they still had a walking bridge across the staging lanes. The NHRA NED Bracket Finals. Those were the days. When you stepped on the gas, it got your attention!

I still miss that car!

Jerry

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[Andy]

[ QUOTE ]
Like to see what I could make with some mods?? The 302 in my new 67 Z28 race car makes 475hp. I'll have to post dyno sheets.
Enjoy,

Jerry

[/ QUOTE ]

Where did your 302 peak out, close to 8,000? How much tq did you get out of it? Got a dyno sheet for it? A friend of mine is considering building a 302 for his 3rd Gen IROC Z and wanted to see the curves on a well built 302. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[Chris_69_SS]

Very NICE!

[Jerry@CHP]

Eric,

Funny story. I received a phone call this past summer. A guy called me looking for a 67 Z28 and wanted to know if I knew of any for sale. One thing led to another. Next thing he tells me that his late brother was invloved with racing. Did I know John Lingenfelter? I almost fell out of my chair! This was his younger brother, Charlie. I told him that his older brother was one of the "icons" of racing and that I thought JL was one of the most respected people in motorsports. What a small world.

Charlie owns or rents a suite at the new Charlotte race track and invited me there when ever I get to race at that facility. I plan on going there this coming spring as NHRA now has a national event there.

In my business, you never know who is going to call you.

Jerry

[Jerry@CHP]

Andy,

Will post 302 dyno sheet data when I get home. I am out of town now on a Camaro inspection trip. I do remember that the 302 in my 67 Z28 did pull strong numbers up to 8000 or 8200rpm. Torque was in the low 300 range but I'll get the data for you. One thing that I have learned over the past 10-15 years is changing the lobe center on these engines makes a big difference in hp. Remember, in Stock Eliminator we have a glass ceiling and that's why you tweek everything that you can. After many years of research, it pays off. That is why we have built a big following for engine rebuilding and restoration. All of our customer base who we have done engines for have a big smile on their face!

I'll also post the dyno sheet on another 396-375 hp L78 engine that I just finished last week. All stock including a 3863143 camshaft with my little tricks paid off on this one too. Made 446 peak hp at like 6100 rpm. More than many get out of an L72 engine. And this was done on Bub's dyno which is on the conservative side.

More later,

Jerry

[Chevy454]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll also post the dyno sheet on another 396-375 hp L78 engine that I just finished last week. All stock including a 3863143 camshaft with my little tricks paid off on this one too. Made 446 peak hp at like 6100 rpm. More than many get out of an L72 engine. And this was done on Bub's dyno which is on the conservative side.

[/ QUOTE ]
Jerry: on these dyno pulls, what exhaust are you running? Headers or manifolds??

[Jerry@CHP]

Headers with mufflers.

[Andy]

[ QUOTE ]
Andy,

Will post 302 dyno sheet data when I get home. I am out of town now on a Camaro inspection trip. I do remember that the 302 in my 67 Z28 did pull strong numbers up to 8000 or 8200rpm. Torque was in the low 300 range but I'll get the data for you. One thing that I have learned over the past 10-15 years is changing the lobe center on these engines makes a big difference in hp. Remember, in Stock Eliminator we have a glass ceiling and that's why you tweek everything that you can. After many years of research, it pays off. That is why we have built a big following for engine rebuilding and restoration. All of our customer base who we have done engines for have a big smile on their face!

I'll also post the dyno sheet on another 396-375 hp L78 engine that I just finished last week. All stock including a 3863143 camshaft with my little tricks paid off on this one too. Made 446 peak hp at like 6100 rpm. More than many get out of an L72 engine. And this was done on Bub's dyno which is on the conservative side.

More later,

Jerry

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the info. I look foward to seeing the sheets. I was considering a 302 build for my 67 Camaro, because I love high winding small blocks, but I decided on a 406 because I like torque an the ability to fry the tires from a roll too. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif My motor ended up making 505 hp and 506 ft lbs @ 5200/5300 respectively with a hydrualic flat tappet and a set of 195 AFRs.

http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/15443190416.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&amp;id=190416)

http://video.fquick.com/thumbs/7069.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/videos/406_dyno/7069)View Video on FQuick (http://www.fquick.com/videos/406_dyno/7069)

[Jerry@CHP]

Andy,

Here is sheet on the bone stock L78 that we did last week. First column is the torque and second is HP. I will dig for my 302 dyno sheets this evening after I get Camaro reports written.

Jerry

[Andy]

Thats impressive for a stock cam/heads. Making power all the way to 6200. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[Jerry@CHP]

Andy,

Found the sheets on the 302 that's in my car now. Pulled engine to 8100rpm. Note that this engine pulled exceptional HP up to 8000rpm with no signs of giving up. The torque is better than I remembered too. Stock "O" rocker arms, stock head castings and camshaft that is slightly less than .485" lift.......and 11:to 1 pistons. I should also note that the new car was on the rev limiter going through the traps at Maple Grove last month........8600rpm at 124.06 mph. Enjoy.

This is why we build so many stock restoration engines for customers now. Our work in the world of Stock Eliminator has paid off in more ways that one.

Jerry

[Andy]

Awesome numbers for a 302 Jerry. Thanks a lot for posting up the dyno sheet. My 406 had already done its thing by the time this dyno sheet actually starts. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[Jerry@CHP]

Andy,

That's one thing that I've loved about the 302 since I saw the first one run back in 1968. The rpm's! We start the dyno pulls on all of these 302 engines where others are about out of steam.......5500rpm. What's really incredible is hearing one in the dyno room at 8000rpm.

Many of the guys who run Stock Eliminator always kid Ben Wenzel and me about how the 302 stockers sound more like a high winding Competition Eliminator race car.

Jerry

[Andy]

[ QUOTE ]
Andy,

That's one thing that I've loved about the 302 since I saw the first one run back in 1968. The rpm's! We start the dyno pulls on all of these 302 engines where others are about out of steam.......5500rpm. What's really incredible is hearing one in the dyno room at 8000rpm.

Many of the guys who run Stock Eliminator always kid Ben Wenzel and me about how the 302 stockers sound more like a high winding Competition Eliminator race car.

Jerry

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats right Jerry. They sound awesome going down the track. I found a dyno video of a 302 on nelson racing engines website and it sounds amazing. http://www.nelsonracingengines.com/videos/highrevhigh.wmv There is no telling how many times I've watched it. I think that the next first gen I build is going to get one of these engines along with a 4 speed. Those 4 speeds that you run in your car, are they still available new today, or do you have to find a used one and have it rebuilt?

[iluv69s]

[ QUOTE ]
This is something you won't see everyday. Two original ZL-1 engines sitting next to one another. We brought both back from the dead. Cylinder explosions, cracks, etc. One is out of ZL-1 #17 and the other is out of car #34. Both made stellar hp on the dyno in bone stock condition w/180 camshafts. Used some of my Stock Eliminator tricks and different ring combinations. 543hp on one and 558hp on the other. Made about 10 pulls on each one. Like to see what I could make with some mods?? The 302 in my new 67 Z28 race car makes 475hp. I'll have to post dyno sheets. Both 427s made just under 500lb ft of torque.

Enjoy,

Jerry

[/ QUOTE ]

Boy, that one ZL-1 motor looks familiar !! Thanks alot Jerry for the great work..not just on this motor, but on all the resto. work and general help you have supplied me with over the last few years !! Max
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif