L89 Nova???????

[iluv69s]

In this month's issue of the Dupont Registry is listed for sale an L89 Nova...it says 6 were made and 2 are known...I know I read a post about this prior, but is it definitely confirmed that these cars exist?? Are there documented examples?

[brent396]

WHAT YEAR NOVA ANY PICS http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[iluv69s]

Its a 70 Nova...and there is a pic..its silver w, black vinyl and black bench seat, radio delete, M-21, 4.10.

Not my car..but if anyone is interested...
Call Rich 561 702 5400

anyone know the car?

[x Baldwin Motion]

http://www.dupontregistry.com/largeimages/8AC-12-05633.jpg

1970 Chevrolet Nova SS L-89
1970 CHEVROLET NOVA SS L-89. 396/375 hp, documentation. 1 of 6 produced by General Motors. The car has a body off restoration, painted in its original Cortez Silver, Black vinyl top, Black interior bench seat, radio delete. Original quarters. Equipped with its L-89 package, M-21 Muncie four speed transmission, 12 bolt posi, 4;10 gear ratio. One of two known in existence. A beautiful investment piece being offered. Please call web page (http://www.dupontregistry.com/autos/Search/DRauSearchDetailsPrintable.aspx?itemid=545556)

[69YENKO162]

I was told that the pic of the car is a toy. Look at the pic there isnt any back ground and it looks like a toy. And no outher pics of the car.

[PeteLeathersac]

The old Dupont ad is still alive from when we were looking at this car here before and it includes an under-hood pic..

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif
~ Pete

http://www.dupontregistry.com/autos/search/DRauSearchDetails.aspx?itemid=472228

[mockingbird812]

Dang, the details of those new models is impressive! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[al8apex]

[ QUOTE ]
Dang, the details of those new models is impressive! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

I wonder how much a model like that costs? Even has the battery disconnect switch and all the tags under the hood ...

Franklin Mint?


http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif

[JRSully]

I wonder what the documentation is for the car.?

[Bergerz28]

Jim, it comes with the receipt from Toys "R" Us and limited production card from Ertl.

[Kim_Howie]

I still say they never made one.

[iluv69s]

[ QUOTE ]
I wonder what the documentation is for the car.?

[/ QUOTE ]

says it has protecto-plate and all #'s match...and that there is another that exists....so? is it real? do they exist? I assume Chevy lists a motor code for this Combo??
Is it JJ like the 69 Camaro??? And didn't they make an L-89 Chevelle?

If its real or not, sure woud like to take it for a spin!!!

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

[WILMASBOYL78]

[ QUOTE ]
I still say they never made one.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't sugar coat it Howie, tell us what you really think http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Mr. Chevy]

Anything is possible, but I have my suspicions and doubts...

Rich

[mockingbird812]

Two words............................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ............. ownership + history

[69z2x4]

If it is real or not I can not say, but haven't you boys learned by now to never say never? ha

[J PAUL]

Does a gentleman in Florida own this car?

Lets see the protect-o-plate

[SuperNovaSS]

It seems like we talk about the same cars over and over sometimes:

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat...true#Post330582 (http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=UBB1&Number=330582&Search page=1&Main=330548&Words=%26quot%3BDUPONT+REGISTRY %26quot%3B&topic=&Search=true#Post330582)

[1968 nova ss]

It would seem to me the black L-89 is more believeable to me than the cortez silver car.Whats more interesting to me ;is why these car never surfaced before ;until recently.Chris teed

[Born30YrsLate]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I still say they never made one.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't sugar coat it Howie, tell us what you really think http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah Howie...have another drink...er two http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Schonyenko2]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I still say they never made one.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't sugar coat it Howie, tell us what you really think http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah Howie...have another drink...er two http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Mr. Howie was not drinking when he made this statement as he and I had just finished a phone conversation about this, and various subjects of great importants. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

Again, there are no known L89 novas that have been verified beyond a shadow of a doubt. No known original owners with verifiable docs. None.

[iluv69s]

One thing that I have learned with these cars is to never say never....I for one would take the opinion that the car may be real until proven otherwise...I believe that we here in America are innocent until proven guilty???

Not to change the subject, but I seem to recall an LS-6 conv. with aluminum heads that had the build sheet. It was in a magazine some years ago...if I recall the motor was out of the car and hurtin', but it was all there...I think the story goes that the car was ordered as an L89, but by then the LS-6's were being produced, so the car came through as an LS-6/L-89..I think it was a black car?? This is going from memory...I hope my Alzheimers is not kicking in...hehe...I'm sure someone hear knows about it....was that car real??? What ever happened to that car??

[kwhizz]

I think the story goes that the car was ordered as an L89, but by then the LS-6's were being produced, so the car came through as an LS-6/L-89

Are you saying that the car came thru with 842 Heads on it??? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif

Ken

[rubbinisracing]

[ QUOTE ]
One thing that I have learned with these cars is to never say never....I for one would take the opinion that the car may be real until proven otherwise...I believe that we here in America are innocent until proven guilty???

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope you don't take that attitude on a trip to Scottsdale.

[Schonyenko2]

There are documented 70 L78, and LS6 chevelles including the convert you mention. All with 842 heads. Your memory is fine.
While I sincerly believe in the never say never mantra, in the case of novas, the proof lies with the person making the claim. They must prove beyond any doubt with adequate evidence, that it was "born" at the factory that way. When you're talking the holy Grail of novas, you need all the legs of proof. From the window sticker/invoice, original owner information, correct mechanical configuration. etc.
It's a big deal.

[Chevy454]

[ QUOTE ]
There are documented 70 L78, and LS6 chevelles including the convert you mention. All with 842 heads. Your memory is fine.


[/ QUOTE ]
Whoa, whoa, whoa...not doubting you a bit, but did I sleep through this somewhere? Are you saying there are *legit* '70 LS6 Chevelles out there with aluminum heads? I thought the alum heads were a '71 LS6 'Vette thing? Sounds like a new setup for Pure Stock! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

And the mention of the 842 heads is important...this isn't always as simple as a head exhange...the pistons/heads have to match (open/closed chamber), and the rest of the crank/rod assembly has to match the piston (counter weight on crank, pin configuration)...which means diggin' into the engine.

[Kim_Howie]

I have never seen any doc's on either car. Show me the doc's. As I have said before of the Gibb 50 nova's we have found 20+ But there is 311 alm. head nova's there should at least 100 of them found by now. JMO http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/BruceRocks.gif

[iluv69s]

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope you don't take that attitude on a trip to Scottsdale.

[/ QUOTE ]

As a youngster I had my fair share of days in court and it was up to the state to prove my guilt...I believe the same goes for the collector car market...before I buy any car, I personally must prove or disprove the authenticity of the claims and/or legitamacy of the car I am buying for me to feel comfortable before I buy it...in this day and age, there are so many resources..this being one of the best http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif ....that anyone that gets duped by an unscrupulous seller can blame noone but themselves!!

I don't feel that anyone has to "prove" the authenticity of thier car to the whole world if they don't want...

it is unfortunate what has happened in this collector car market..the fault being $$$$$...but, I like to try and initilally think the cup is half full...not half empty...
I just think there is too much negatitivity in the world today...

I have seen a few cars/owners get trashed on this and/or other sites before anyone has even seen the evidence/docs... only to eventually be proven that the car was authentic...

...no offense to anyone here or on any other site, because I think these sites are awesome...just my opinion..

[Mr70]

"Not to change the subject, but I seem to recall an LS-6 conv. with aluminum heads that had the build sheet."

That LS-6 Chevelle Convertible was just that,and not an LS-6/L-89.
Bill Clement at ChevyCraft in Tex. was the one who owned it and made that claim at that time.The paperwork was doctored to reflect the Al. Head option,and soon disproven.
That car was orginally sold here new at Dick Wickstrom Chevrolet in Roselle,Il.back during 1970.
I don't believe any 1970 LS-6 Chevelle was assembled w/L-89 Al.Heads from the factory.

[iluv69s]

there seems to be a difference of opinion....so sre there any documented...without a doubt...LS-6/L-89 Chevelles???

[Mr70]

None that I know of.
Lets be clear we're talking FACTORY assembled cars here,not Dealer or OTC installed.

[SS427]

Recently Ive had numerous conversations with Fran Preve of the Tonawanda engine foundry regarding just this subject. He to this day still holds the plant production records from that era.

According to Fran and I quote "The Tonawanda engine plant kept VERY accurate records on engines built during each model year. These "Summeries of Engines Built" list EVERY engine we built by assembly number and description. This number crossed over to a suffix code so from them I could determine how many of each SUFFIX CODE we built. Sometimes, as in the case of the L-89 engines built, I had further records. In these cases it was "engine canceled, not replaced" and then a date.

In the case of the L-89 engines in 1970, in October 1969 the L-89 option was canceled, not replaced. there were (off hand) 18 L78/L89 engines built before the option was canceled. As far as the LS6/L89 NONE WERE BUILT. Period. In model year 1970 NO aluminum head LS6 engines were built. In 1971 there were 200 LS6 engines built and put into Corvettes, ALL were aluminum head (due to the lowered compression ratio).

I've spent many years researching big block production (ALL big blocks). I'm always open to new information, DOCUMENTED AND IRRIFUTABLE. But if anyone wants to contradict me they'd better have better records than I do!"

I trust Fran knows what he is talking about and has investigated all his documents from Tonawanda.

[Schonyenko2]

[ QUOTE ]
"Not to change the subject, but I seem to recall an LS-6 conv. with aluminum heads that had the build sheet."

That LS-6 Chevelle Convertible was just that,and not an LS-6/L-89.
Bill Clement at ChevyCraft in Tex. was the one who owned it and made that claim at that time.The paperwork was doctored to reflect the Al. Head option,and soon disproven.
That car was orginally sold here new at Dick Wickstrom Chevrolet in Roselle,Il.back during 1970.
I don't believe any 1970 LS-6 Chevelle was assembled w/L-89 Al.Heads from the factory.

[/ QUOTE ]

The article I read was from years ago on the LS6 842 chevelles. They claimed at the time there may have been 3 I believe. The article talked about how Chevrolet had an issue with doing it as the LS6 was a new motor using old 842 head design.
Now perhaps It's the same car that Rick P. mentions as having bogused docs. But the main subject matter of it all delt with unusually optioned cars not just L89 options. Options like liquid tire chain, optic fibre, etc. Seemed like it was a Super Chevy(not always the last word in absolutes.)
If Rick N. says he believes there are none until proven so, I would agree with him.
As far as novas again, they present a different problem in authenticating as there is no specific suffix code for an L89 application as there is for Camaros, Chevelles, or Corvettes. That's why if there ever were any, you would need verifiable paperwork, or a credible original owner.I understand that it sucks that original owners sometimes get "encouragement money" to remember things that weren't, or bogused docs. But unless you want to pay big money for something that isn't you'll need to be very careful.

[mockingbird812]

I have the article on the "LS6 w/ Aluminum Heads" at home and will post it tonight.

[92646]

Why did they still use closed chamber heads in 1970? The open chamber heads had been around for awhile. It made more power and got better results with the smog regulations. In 1971 did they use an open chamber head with a closed chamber piston to lower the compression?
Mark Sheppard

[Chevy454]

[ QUOTE ]
Why did they still use closed chamber heads in 1970? The open chamber heads had been around for awhile. It made more power and got better results with the smog regulations. In 1971 did they use an open chamber head with a closed chamber piston to lower the compression?

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure it necessarily made more power apples-apples...today's Pro Stock engines aren't open chambered, quite the opposite...tiny, tiny chambers with a huge quench area. With an open chamber, to get any kind of compression you're talking a BIG dome, which means more weight in the piston, which means a heavier pin, which means a heavier rod, which means a heavier counterweight...that's a lot of *heavier* components, and these engines were already struggling with rods/bolts living as it was. Anyway, that's enough rambling from me...

IIRC, the 074s (L88, ZL1, '71 LS6) I believe were the only open chamber production BBC stuff...top shelf stuff indeed, but old technology as well.

[m22mike]

[ QUOTE ]
I have never seen any doc's on either car. Show me the doc's. As I have said before of the Gibb 50 nova's we have found 20+ But there is 311 alm. head nova's there should at least 100 of them found by now. JMO http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/BruceRocks.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Since we are on the subject about L89 heads, has anybody ever questioned this 311 # for L89 cars made?
311 Camaros, 311 Chevelles...etc... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

Mike

[al8apex]

[ QUOTE ]
"Not to change the subject, but I seem to recall an LS-6 conv. with aluminum heads that had the build sheet."

That LS-6 Chevelle Convertible was just that,and not an LS-6/L-89.
Bill Clement at ChevyCraft in Tex. was the one who owned it and made that claim at that time.The paperwork was doctored to reflect the Al. Head option,and soon disproven.
That car was orginally sold here new at Dick Wickstrom Chevrolet in Roselle,Il.back during 1970.
I don't believe any 1970 LS-6 Chevelle was assembled w/L-89 Al.Heads from the factory.

[/ QUOTE ]

I remember that car going through the B-J auction with the heads in the trunk some years ago. I heard that person did a lot of doctoring ... on lots of things

[Jeff H]

[ QUOTE ]
Since we are on the subject about L89 heads, has anybody ever questioned this 311 # for L89 cars made?
311 Camaros, 311 Chevelles...etc... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

Mike

[/ QUOTE ]

I always thought that was a mix up since both cars shared the same engine codes. I can't imagine they made exactly 311 of each.

[mockingbird812]

Chevy High Performance, August 1995...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v697/mockingbird812/1970chevelle.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v697/mockingbird812/1970chevelle001.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v697/mockingbird812/1970chevelle002.jpg

[Late BrakeU2]

According to Fran Preve, Tonawanda had gotten WAY to big. There was a need to cut it down to size, eliminate versions so they didn't make so many different KINDS of engines. This meant dropping suffix codes (versions), and combining others. Where possible they made one engine fit many models rather than one version for each model. The program was called "de-proliferation" and apparently the plant workers loved it for it's simplicity. Lot's of disruptive production sequence going on in the last half of 69-plant strikes,complete A body reskin,and 71 emissions rules coming in that would affect which engines would be available.

[iluv69s]

Thats the article I remember!! So that build sheet is fake??? And how about that hood?? Has that been documented?? Imagine the weight savings with alum. heads and a glass hood!!!

[Carleen]

Suffix code on that Chevelle is CRW.
CRN 1970 Chevelle 454 360 Mt LS-5 HP
CRQ 1970 Chevelle 454 360 TH LS-5 HP
CRR 1970 Chevelle 454 450 TH LS-6 SHP
CRS 1970 Chevelle 454 450 TH LS-6 SHP, alum hd
CRT 1970 Chevelle 454 360 Mt LS-5 HP
CRV 1970 Chevelle 454 450 Mt LS-6 HP

CRW 1972 Chevelle 454 270 TH LS-5 AR

I dont know? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Schonyenko2]

That's true in some cases. The prevailing thought among most Nova people is that the most likley time line for L89 novas would be 68, but best chance would be 69 for significant nbrs. That beggs the question that if Fred Gibb, who was as plugged into GM performance as he was to build the 68 COPO autos, why didn't he order them with al. heads. That's 60#s off the nose.
There is no code specific suffix for al. heads in 68, 69 Nova applications. Could they have shared one with the Camaro? Maybe, but it seems unlikley. To the best of my knowledge, no window stickers have been found with the al. head RPO option on any Nova, while many are known for Camaros, and Chevelles.
I've seen invoices that show a cost for al. heads on Novas, but this always seems to lead to a dealer installation.
Now, you're preachin to the choir here, as I believe there may have been some produced, but we simply haven't found any that pass all the criteria.

[Kim_Howie]

After awhile you have to look at the truth. It's about time you came around to my thinking. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[John Brown]

[ QUOTE ]
.....That beggs the question that if Fred Gibb, who was as plugged into GM performance as he was to build the 68 COPO autos, why didn't he order them with al. heads. That's 60#s off the nose.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even if aluminum heads could have been ordered in 68, 60 pounds off of a Nova would have put them at the heavy end of the next higher class for NHRA drag racing. That wouldn't have been a good situation, even if aluminum heads were a possibility.

[PeteLeathersac]

As stated in other threads I've always wanted to be an L89 Nova believer but have to admit the more we debate it, the closer I am to lining up for a ticket on Howie's bus..

What was it Bob Johnston had to say in past threads on this subject...didn't he say he tried to place orders and it was a no-go?.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
~ Pete

[Carleen]

MQ 1968 Chevy II 396 375 Mt HP
MR 1968 Chevy II 396 350 TH HP
MX 1968 Chevy II 396 350 Mt HP
JF 1969 Chevy II 396 350 Mt HP
JH 1969 Chevy II 396 375 Mt SHP
JI 1969 Chevy II 396 350 TH HP
JL 1969 Chevy II 396 375 TH SHP
JM 1969 Chevy II 396 TH
JU 1969 Chevy II 396 PG
KA 1969 Chevy II 396 350 Mt HP
KC 1969 Chevy II 396 375 Mt SHP
KE 1969 Chevy II 396 Mt
CKO 1970 Nova 396 375 Mt L-78 SHP
CKP 1970 Nova 396 375 TH L-89 SHP
CKQ 1970 Nova 396 375 Mt L-78 SHP
CKT 1970 Chevy II 396 375 Mt L-89 SHP
CKU 1970 Chevy II 396 375 Mt L-89 SHP
CPS 1971 Nova 454 425 400 LS-6
CPT 1971 Nova 454 425 4sp LS-6

[WILMASBOYL78]

As stated in other threads I've always wanted to be an L89 Nova believer but have to admit the more we debate it, the closer I am to lining up for a ticket on Howie's bus..

Check the tires on that bus before you get on...they might need air http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[WILMASBOYL78]

JU 1969 Chevy II 396 PG

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[1968 nova ss]

A 396 powerglide nova Tom?I have to agree with John Brown ;it would place the nova in a different stock eliminator category.I always wanted to believe an L-89 exist;but I am almost ready to hop on the Howie bus ;when its leave?chris

[Carleen]

Why do they have Engine Suffix Code if the car doesn't exist?
Heavy Chevy Chevelle LS7 -71 doesn't exist eider, or?
CPY 1971 Chevelle 454 425 400 LS-6 10 released
CPZ 1971 Chevelle 454 425 400 LS-6 4 released

Nikke

[Late BrakeU2]

[ QUOTE ]
Why do they have Engine Suffix Code if the car doesn't exist?
Heavy Chevy Chevelle LS7 -71 doesn't exist eider, or?
CPY 1971 Chevelle 454 425 400 LS-6 10 released
CPZ 1971 Chevelle 454 425 400 LS-6 4 released

Nikke

[/ QUOTE ]

See my above post,those were on the books but on the books doesn't mean production. The emissions standards made those future engine configs null and void. Not sure where those stats are from? They put LS6's in the 71 MY vette only. The 70 Chevelle/Elco w LS6 was the only year anything other than a vette had top bragging rights for H.P.

[jasonL78]

I have talked to a guy that has a L89 aluminum head 68 Nova. He said if I remember correctly, the head's were in the trunk along with the aluminum water pump. He is the second owner of the car and the original owner still has all the paper work. With the dealer invoice to back it up. Would this be considered an L89 car? His name is Chris Robbins he work's at Legendary Interior's. I know he is a member of this site maybe he will chime in.

[Mr70]

I'm curious to know who was responsible for putting a set of Al.Heads in the trunk?An assembly line worker?...the receiving dealership?..the original owner on his way home from the dealership?
And were they #392's or #842's?
His original paperwork could help answer alot of questions in the Hobby today.

[Kim_Howie]

Alum water pump in 68?? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[JRSully]

Even if the Alum heads were put in the trunk by an "assembly line worker" that would mean the engine would be assembled, stamped and installed as an L78 motor. Why would they assemble the complete engine, install, and stamp an L89 code on the engine and not install the heads.? Would never happen in my eyes. The 68 story above sounds like somebody ordered an L78 with a set of Alum heads to be included upon delivery. The stamping (if it is original) on that 68 block would tell the story

[Mr. Chevy]

If I'm not mistaken, the aluminum heads were casted at the Winters Foundry in Canton, Ohio where the intakes were casted correct?? If so, I know an older fella who still resides in Canton and near the old foundry. He was telling me that back in the day of making these things many of them would "disappear" or "go over the fence" if you know what I mean.. He said lots of street racing guys back then had the aluminum components on their engines who lived around the Canton area and he said that he bets that lots are still sitting around in garages in this area..

Case in point, I think lots of these things were floating around and were put on big blocks back in the day and now people are surmising/guessing or just fabricating what they want to believe their car is, meaning a true L89 car... I do believe that there were some true L89 cars made... I also think that the dealerships may have converted the cars this way as well if the customer wanted...

Just my .02 Rich

[kwhizz]

Or............Buy a set off eBay.........

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/kwhizz/70%20Nova/tn_DSC00871.jpg

Ken

[Xplantdad]

One of my favorite pictures of all time... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif

[jasonL78]

I think he told me the dealer installed the heads and water pump when the car was new. So My question was is this considered an L89 car or just an L78 with dealer installed aluminum heads. He claim's the original owner has all the paper work showing this? I have heard this before from my dad's friend. He was a mechanic for a local chevrolet dealership in the late 60's. He said that he installed headers on a lot of new cars back in the day and that they came in the trunk from the factory? Or maybe someone put them in the trunk when the car came to the dealer ship? The 68 L78 nova is in Western NY. His father at one time owned a couple of Dueces? Chris told me his father also worked at a chevrolet dealership and un-loaded his 68 L78 nova from the car hauler. How cool is that!

Jason

[Mr70]

...an L78 with dealer installed aluminum heads.

[camarojoe]

[ QUOTE ]
I think he told me the dealer installed the heads and water pump when the car was new. So My question was is this considered an L89 car or just an L78 with dealer installed aluminum heads. He claim's the original owner has all the paper work showing this? I have heard this before from my dad's friend. He was a mechanic for a local chevrolet dealership in the late 60's. He said that he installed headers on a lot of new cars back in the day and that they came in the trunk from the factory? Or maybe someone put them in the trunk when the car came to the dealer ship? The 68 L78 nova is in Western NY. His father at one time owned a couple of Dueces? Chris told me his father also worked at a chevrolet dealership and un-loaded his 68 L78 nova from the car hauler. How cool is that!

Jason

[/ QUOTE ]

That's Neal Robbins... the guy Frankie and I bought our Deuces from.

[jasonL78]

That must be him. I think he said one was red and one was green. I think Chris told me he has a hugger orange duece also. But I am not sure?

Jason

[68 Vert]

[ QUOTE ]
I think he told me the dealer installed the heads and water pump when the car was new. So My question was is this considered an L89 car or just an L78 with dealer installed aluminum heads. He claim's the original owner has all the paper work showing this? I have heard this before from my dad's friend. He was a mechanic for a local chevrolet dealership in the late 60's. He said that he installed headers on a lot of new cars back in the day and that they came in the trunk from the factory? Or maybe someone put them in the trunk when the car came to the dealer ship? The 68 L78 nova is in Western NY. His father at one time owned a couple of Dueces? Chris told me his father also worked at a chevrolet dealership and un-loaded his 68 L78 nova from the car hauler. How cool is that!

Jason

[/ QUOTE ]

Jason, I'm originally from WNY, was the car sold new there?

I can tell you for fact plenty of BB stuff went out the back door of the Tonawanda engine plant...http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

Mike

[LS6 RAT]

The article I read was from years ago on the LS6 842 chevelles. They claimed at the time there may have been 3 I believe. The article talked about how Chevrolet had an issue with doing it as the LS6 was a new motor using old 842 head design.
Now perhaps It's the same car that Rick P. mentions as having bogused docs. But the main subject matter of it all delt with unusually optioned cars not just L89 options. Options like liquid tire chain, optic fibre, etc. Seemed like it was a Super Chevy(not always the last word in absolutes.)
If Rick N. says he believes there are none until proven so, I would agree with him.
As far as novas again, they present a different problem in authenticating as there is no specific suffix code for an L89 application as there is for Camaros, Chevelles, or Corvettes. That's why if there ever were any, you would need verifiable paperwork, or a credible original owner.I understand that it sucks that original owners sometimes get "encouragement money" to remember things that weren't, or bogused docs. But unless you want to pay big money for something that isn't you'll need to be very careful.

[/ QUOTE ]

Rick,
I agree that Fran would be most knowledgeable on Tonawandas engine build out. In 1971 there were 212 LS6 engines coded as CPW (manual trans) or CPX (automatic trans) but this included 24 engine case assemblies for warranty purposes. 188 Corvettes were fitted with LS6 engines. The breakdown seems to be 34 or 36 coded as CPX and 162 or 164 as CPW. Currently we have located 105 original, real verified LS6 Corvettes, with 14 being CPX and the balance being CPW, with the breakdown being 15 M21 ordered cars and the balance M22 equipped.

[Schonyenko2]

[ QUOTE ]
After awhile you have to look at the truth. It's about time you came around to my thinking. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Truth is a matter of interpretation of the evidence presented to you. Rarely is it a absolute. Especially if you're a politician. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
While we may agree on some points, I think the chances of my thinking like you in respect to most things may need another day......or two. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif
Note to Ia. DOT: Please install blow tube ignition lock on previously mentioned bus registered to one K. Howie, and a digital smoke detector for varification of non smoking code compliance. Addendum: optional GPS system to monitor possible tavern stops. Enjoy your trip on the Howie magic bus. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[iluv69s]

So what about the glass hood option??? Anyone verify if that really existed?? Obviously Chevy made the glass and steel x-ram Camaro hoods...but the Chevelle?? This is the only time Ive heard of this?? Anyone???

[PeteLeathersac]

[ QUOTE ]
Enjoy your trip on the Howie magic bus. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwCdCNRe_KM&feature=related

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif
~ Pete

[camarojoe]

[ QUOTE ]
So what about the glass hood option??? Anyone verify if that really existed?? Obviously Chevy made the glass and steel x-ram Camaro hoods...but the Chevelle?? This is the only time Ive heard of this?? Anyone???

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that whole article was about 90% BS...hood story included.

[Late BrakeU2]

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that whole article was about 90% BS...hood story included.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't think you are off base in the slightest. When a buff mag does a piece on a car built a quarter century earlier that perpetuates myth it is irresponsible journalisim. It might not mean much to the 90% of people reading the article for the pure fictional aspect,but to the 10% of core enthusiasts(that are members here) the passion is in seeking truth.

Obviously with no factory support it's been open season for forty years of grey,unfortuately the battle will never end. The "GM did strange things back then" all encompassing black hole that includes aluminum head cars,4spd LS5 monte carlos,nov built LS6 chevelles,etc has made it frustating love with these,and ripe for fraud.

No (real)docs,no dice JMO
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Bill Pritchard]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't think you are off base in the slightest. When a buff mag does a piece on a car built a quarter century earlier that perpetuates myth it is irresponsible journalisim. It might not mean much to the 90% of people reading the article for the pure fictional aspect,but to the 10% of core enthusiasts(that are members here) the passion is in seeking truth.

Obviously with no factory support it's been open season for forty years of grey,unfortuately the battle will never end. The "GM did strange things back then" all encompassing black hole that includes aluminum head cars,4spd LS5 monte carlos,nov built LS6 chevelles,etc has made it frustating love with these,and ripe for fraud.

No (real)docs,no dice JMO
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

What he said. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[kwhizz]

And......How do you tell "Real" doc's anymore....These "Holy Grail" cars that fall out of the sky with some Documentation that nobody get's to look at(Not that I would know real paperwork anyway)...... In my unsophisticated point of view......tracking, verifying and documenting the prior ownership would be another piece of the Puzzle to establishing credibility for the 1 of 1 cars that "Just" show up one day.....Just my $.02
If I had one of the Holy Grail cars I would going overboard to "Prove" the authenticity and Pedigree of the Vehicle rather than just say "Believe Me"......It's easy to put a L-89 car together..........

Ken

[iluv69s]

So this car in question is apparently atleast a real LS-6 conv...nothing to sneeze at...so where is it now?? Anyone know??? Is the build sheet available to see?? (Not that I would know a real build sheet from a fake one)Has anyone actually seen it to 100% verify that its bogus?? I assume no other glass hoods have showed up on build sheets or in person?? I remember many years ago a local fellow that knew I was really into early Camaros showed up with a fiberglass cowl hood stating that it was on his car since the 60's and it was a real GM hood...I noticed the oblong cutout underneath and all..but I was sure it was an aftermerket hood, so I did not give him the 200 bucks he wanted for it... dduuhhhh!! At the time, I dont think anyone believed that the glass x-ram hoods existed???

BTW...if these one-off "Holy Grail" cars did not show up now and then, we would all be pretty bored, wouldn't we !!! hehehe

[Keith Tedford]

I think the Smithsonian Institute and others can identify paper and its age. Won't come cheap though but might buts a few myths. HEY!! We need the Mythbusters here. What's the story on 4 speed Monte Carlos. I saw a dark green '70-'72 402 4 speed around here many years ago. It looked original but who knows?

[Mr70]

SS 454 M/C were the ones w/o 4spd.
Boy..is this thread all over the place from it's intended title. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[m22mike]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the Smithsonian Institute and others can identify paper and its age. Won't come cheap though but might buts a few myths. HEY!! We need the Mythbusters here. What's the story on 4 speed Monte Carlos. I saw a dark green '70-'72 402 4 speed around here many years ago. It looked original but who knows?

[/ QUOTE ]

You could get a 4 speed box in a 70 or 71 Monte Carlo.
Not in a 72.
A friends Mom had a 70 350 cid 4 bbl W a 3.36 ?? I think, she was pissed at the saleman cause see wanted it w a 4.10 gear and could not get it. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif
Mike

[Carleen]

This is from Team Chevelle.

Jan 31st, 07, 1:01 PM
CNS
Chuck Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Northern Illinois
Posts: 2

Re: definative LS7 info

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have owned a 70 El Camino for 15 years. the engine # is T0218CRS. It does have Alum heads and a Turbo400 trans. The back of the block has the 3963512 casting number. It came from a highly regarded Scottsdale collector. I think I've got the real deal. What more can I do to be sure? (No build sheet.)


http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157611&highlight=ls7

CRS 1970 Chevelle 454 450 TH LS-6 SHP, alum hd

I dont know?Im not an expert

[SS427]

That El Camino has been inspected and shown to have likely started life as an SS396 NOT a 454 and certainly not an LS-6. Unfortunately, another case of an innocent enthusiast being duped into buying what he thought was a legitimate car.

[SS454Elky]

My '71 SS454 El Camino has a white faced 6500 RPM redline tach. I have owned this car since the early 80's and know its history into the 70's. Obviously its not an LS6, but I think it lends credence that at some point an LS6 nearly made it into the 1971 line-up. It just seems crazy that they would put that tach into a hydraulic liftered engine. It would just be inviting warranty issues. Weird things happened.

[Carleen]

Rick, was it a re-stamped block?
Just curious.

Nikke