Gm letter to Suppliers

[kwhizz]

Posted from another site..........


You Need to Read This Letter - UAW and Others like Them !



This is one of the finest letters and greatest responses to the requests for bailout money I have seen. As a supplier for the Big 3 this man received a letter from the President of GM North America requesting support for the bail out program. His response is a classic, and has to make you proud of a local guy who tells it like it is. He and "Joe the Plumber" would make a great team.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++

Dear Employees & Suppliers,

Congress and the current Administration will soon determine whether to provide immediate support to the domestic auto industry to help it through one of the most difficult economic times in our nation's history. Your elected officials must hear from all of us now on why this support is critical to our continuing the progress we began prior to the global financial crisis......................As an employee or supplier, you have a lot at stake and continue to be one of our most effective and passionate voices. I know GM can count on you to have your voice heard.

Thank you for your urgent action and ongoing support.

Troy Clarke

President General Motors North America

+++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++

Response from:

Gregory Knox, Pres.

Knox Machinery Company

Franklin, Ohio



Gentlemen:

In response to your request to contact legislators and ask for a bailout for the Big Three automakers please consider the following, and please pass my thoughts on to Troy Clark, President of General Motors North America.

Politicians and Management of the Big 3 are both infected with the same entitlement mentality that has spread like cancerous germs in UAW halls for the last countless decades, and whose plague is now sweeping this nation, awaiting our new "messiah", Pres-elect Obama, to wave his magic wand and make all our problems go away, while at the same time allowing our once great nation to keep "living the dream"… Believe me folks, The dream is over!

This dream where we can ignore the consumer for years while management myopically focuses on its personal rewards packages at the same time that our factories have been filled with the worlds most overpaid, arrogant, ignorant and laziest entitlement minded "laborers" without paying the price for these atrocities…this dream where you still think the masses will line up to buy our products for ever and ever.

Don't even think about telling me I'm wrong. Don't accuse me of not knowing of what I speak. I have called on Ford, GM, Chrysler, TRW, Delphi, Kelsey Hayes, American Axle and countless other automotive OEM's throughout the Midwest during the past 30 years and what I've seen over those years in these union shops can only be described as disgusting.

Troy Clarke, President of General Motors North America, states: "There is widespread sentiment throughout this country, and our government, and especially via the news media, that the current crisis is completely the result of bad management which it certainly is not."

You're right Mr. Clarke, it's not JUST management…how about the electricians who walk around the plants like lords in feudal times, making people wait on them for countless hours while they drag censored…so they can come in on the weekend and make double and triple time…for a job they easily could have done within their normal 40 hour work week. How about the line workers who threaten newbies with all kinds of scare tactics…for putting out too many parts on a shift…and for being too productive. ( Volumes could be written about the bloat and abuse in union shops; in most production process businesses that need to be efficient and productive and they have outlived their true value.)

(We certainly must not expose those lazy bums who have been getting overpaid for decades for their horrific underproduction, must we?!?)

Do you folks really not know about this stuff?!? How about this great sentiment abridged from Mr. Clarke's sad plea: "over the last few years …we have closed the quality and efficiency gaps with our competitors." What the hell has Detroit been doing for the last 40 years?!? Did we really JUST wake up to the gaps in quality and efficiency between us and them? The K car vs. the Accord? The Pinto vs. the Civic?!? Do I need to go on? What a joke!

We are living through the inevitable outcome of the actions of the United States auto industry for decades. It's time to pay for your sins, Detroit .

I attended an economic summit last week where brilliant economist, Alan Beaulieu, from the Institute of Trend Research , surprised the crowd when he said he would not have given the banks a penny of "bailout money". "Yes, he said, this would cause short term problems," but despite what people like politicians and corporate magnates would have us believe, the sun would in fact rise the next day… and the following very important thing would happen…where there had been greedy and sloppy banks, new efficient ones would pop up…that is how a free market system works…it does work…if we would only let it work…"

But for some nondescript reason we are now deciding that the rest of the world is right and that capitalism doesn't work - that we need the government to step in and "save us"…Save us my censored, Hell - we're nationalizing…and unfortunately too many of our once fine nation's citizens don't even have a clue that this is what is really happening…But, they sure can tell you the stats on their favorite sports teams…yeah - THAT'S really important, isn't it…

Does it ever occur to ANYONE that the "competition" has been producing vehicles, EXTREMELY PROFITABLY, for decades in this country?... How can that be??? Let's see… Fuel efficient… Listening to customers… Investing in the proper tooling and automation for the long haul…

Not being too complacent or arrogant to listen to Dr. W. Edwards Deming four decades ago when he taught that by adopting appropriate principles of management, organizations could increase quality and simultaneously reduce costs. Ever increased productivity through quality and intelligent planning… Treating vendors like strategic partners, rather than like "the enemy"… Efficient front and back offices… Non union environment…

Again, I could go on and on, but I really wouldn't be telling anyone anything they really don't already know down deep in their hearts.

I have six children, so I am not unfamiliar with the concept of wanting someone to bail you out of a mess that you have gotten yourself into - my children do this on a weekly, if not daily basis, as I did when I was their age. I do for them what my parents did for me (one of their greatest gifts, by the way) - I make them stand on their own two feet and accept the consequences of their actions and work through it. Radical concept, huh… Am I there for them in the wings? Of course - but only until such time as they need to be fully on their own as adults..

I don't want to oversimplify a complex situation, but there certainly are unmistakable parallels here between the proper role of parenting and government. Detroit and the United States need to pay for their sins. Bad news people - it's coming whether we like it or not. The newly elected Messiah really doesn't have a magic wand big enough to "make it all go away." I laughed as I heard Obama "reeling it back in" almost immediately after the final vote count was tallied…"we really might not do it in a year…or in four…" Where the Hell was that kind of talk when he was RUNNING for office?

Stop trying to put off the inevitable folks … That house in Florida really isn't worth $750,000… People who jump across a border really don't deserve free health care benefits… That job driving that forklift for the Big 3 really isn't worth $85,000 a year… We really shouldn't allow Wal-Mart to stock their shelves with products acquired from a country that unfairly manipulates their currency and has the most atrocious human rights infractions on the face of the globe…

That couple whose combined income is less than $50,000 really shouldn't be living in that $485,000 home… Let the market correct itself folks - it will. Yes it will be painful, but it's gonna' be painful either way, and the bright side of my proposal is that on the other side of it all, is a nation that appreciates what it has…and doesn't live beyond its means…and gets back to basics…and redevelops the patriotic work ethic that made it the greatest nation in the history of the world…and probably turns back to God.

Sorry - don't cut my head off, I'm just the messenger sharing with you the "bad news". I hope you take it to heart.

Gregory J. Knox, President

Knox Machinery, Inc.

Franklin, Ohio 45005

True according to Snopes: http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/knox .asp

[firstgenaddict]

Amen Mr Knox...

[1968 nova ss]

Not many guys that tell it the way it is;and he's right a couple with a 50,000 year income shoild not living in a 450,000 house.Most of us live beyond our means,me included.But,i am learning in this economic times to do with out some things.Well done mr. knox

[ORIGLS6]

Another guy who "Get's It!"

[427TJ]

By the way, President Bush gave GM and Chrysler the money this morning.

[Keith Tedford]

I spent 41 years in GM Oshawa as a tool & die maker. Believe it or not, I actually worked for a living. In that time I saw a lot of changes, and lots of things that should have been changed. There were years when GM made $5-6 billion and could afford to pay big wages. Same with other companies. There were a lot of people with jobs that could be hardly called jobs. There were slugs who basically wouldn't work. Starting around 2000 things really started to change. There was more and more automation installed to eliminate jobs, Everything gradually tightened up on the line. No longer does a worker have time to sneeze never mind read a few lines of the newspaper between jobs. Sweepers, Cleaner Attendants and lift truck drivers were whittle down to the minimum. The slugs and the like were quick to take the early retirements and buyouts. Everyone became fully accountable for their jobs being done right, trades and production. It does take a while to turn the mentality around that had been in the company for so many years. You would be hard pressed to squeeze any more work out of the people on the line. Quality control became a number one issue. Production General Foremen and Foremen walk the floor almost constantly. No more hiding in their offices. There was a time when you wouldn't any more than know who the bosses were. GM is now paying for past actions and the results may be dire. There will have to be wage and benefit cuts, salary and hourly. More plants will have to be shut down and model lines will have to disappear. Lean and mean is the only way to survive. I believe that they also have to make big changes in the type of people that they promote into management. I could point out a few who wouldn't last five minutes if I were running things. Incompetence comes to mind. The American unions may be a problem, but the CAW has been losing ground for a few years. When I retired two years ago, new hires were coming in at $17 and hour, no benefits and 6 month contracts. I'd surely call that a big concession. We are also going to be paying a bigger share of our drug coverage. I just wonder what will happen when we all have to adjust our wages to compete with the Chinese slave labor wages. Do we let ALL our manufacturing leave? I can't think of a country that is successful with nothing more than service industries to keep it afloat. What I really can't understand is why there are aren't a lot of bankers and Wall Street people in jail. Two world wars didn't even create this big of a mess. There, now I feel better.

[kwhizz]

[ QUOTE ]
I spent 41 years in GM Oshawa as a tool & die maker. Believe it or not, I actually worked for a living. In that time I saw a lot of changes, and lots of things that should have been changed. There were years when GM made $5-6 billion and could afford to pay big wages. Same with other companies. There were a lot of people with jobs that could be hardly called jobs. There were slugs who basically wouldn't work. Starting around 2000 things really started to change. There was more and more automation installed to eliminate jobs, Everything gradually tightened up on the line. No longer does a worker have time to sneeze never mind read a few lines of the newspaper between jobs. Sweepers, Cleaner Attendants and lift truck drivers were whittle down to the minimum. The slugs and the like were quick to take the early retirements and buyouts. Everyone became fully accountable for their jobs being done right, trades and production. It does take a while to turn the mentality around that had been in the company for so many years. You would be hard pressed to squeeze any more work out of the people on the line. Quality control became a number one issue. Production General Foremen and Foremen walk the floor almost constantly. No more hiding in their offices. There was a time when you wouldn't any more than know who the bosses were. GM is now paying for past actions and the results may be dire. There will have to be wage and benefit cuts, salary and hourly. More plants will have to be shut down and model lines will have to disappear. Lean and mean is the only way to survive. I believe that they also have to make big changes in the type of people that they promote into management. I could point out a few who wouldn't last five minutes if I were running things. Incompetence comes to mind. The American unions may be a problem, but the CAW has been losing ground for a few years. When I retired two years ago, new hires were coming in at $17 and hour, no benefits and 6 month contracts. I'd surely call that a big concession. We are also going to be paying a bigger share of our drug coverage. I just wonder what will happen when we all have to adjust our wages to compete with the Chinese slave labor wages. Do we let ALL our manufacturing leave? I can't think of a country that is successful with nothing more than service industries to keep it afloat. What I really can't understand is why there are aren't a lot of bankers and Wall Street people in jail. Two world wars didn't even create this big of a mess. There, now I feel better.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

This is all Al Gores fault.....If he wouldn't have "Invented" the Internet.......the world would still be recognizable as we remember it......and the World Ecomomy wouldn't be here yet........Just Kidding....But.....We "All" want things to stay as they were, But...Ain't gonna happen.....we have to adjust and change and the Rules are changing on a Weekly Basis...

Ken http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[Salvatore]

Keith, save your breath. Nobody likes Unions anymore. A thing of the past! Very, very few ever honor picket lines. After the UAW gets dismantled (the last big Union in this country) than we as a Nation can really get back on track with poor healthcare, poor working conditions, no pensions or 401K's that the employer will match and especially a very weak collective barganing structure. If I don't like the color of your hair....your fired! So lets go back to the Forties. Big business has won! That got their tax breaks years ago and instead of rebuilding or building new plants or factories they built overseas. I also blame the Unions for part of that. Now the tide has changed. We all enjoyed our WalMarts and Dollar Store bargains, made pretty good money in the 70's through the late 90's and did not really CARE if we spent our money in our own country. Everybody looked at whats best and the cheapest for them. Well now it is time to pay up. Because of labor problems, Wall Street sell-outs and GREEDY Americans all the money we saved over the last 2 decades with all the Chineese and foreign crap that we imported we will have to pay back the money to this unemployed country probably 2 fold. So as the story goes..."Pay me now or pay me later." Was all those savings from imports, salary give backs, closing factories and white collar crimes worth it? America has lived high on the hog and we ALL took advantage of things one time or another. What comes around goes around! So anybody that is a member of any Union now has lost more rights than any non union worker ever had! I believe the big tidal wave has yet to come for us. The bailout of America. God Bless this nation! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[Keith Tedford]

I know what you are saying Sam. Unions have, to some extent, created their own grief, although, I can count on one hand all the strikes that we had in my 41 years in Oshawa. The British Unions just about crippled England until Margaret Thatcher pretty well wiped them out. A case of unions run amok. If you look at history, I don't think that we ever had much of a middle class like we have developed since the 1930s. In a lot of countries the poor scavenge off of garbage dumps to survive. Unious at least pulled money out of the rich and have created somewhat of a safety net for the destitute and poor. I wouldn't want unions running the country, but I think that they have their place, to a point. The multi-nationals must be rubbing their hands with glee at playing us off against 1.3 billion Chinese slaves. Oh yes, they do pay them a little so that they can't be called slaves. Not much difference. If it is going to be survival of the fittest, it isn't going to be pretty for those of us who aren't fit. Obama has made an awful lot of promises that start sounding like pie in the sky. When he can't produce, I think you may just see his popularity plummet like a rock. Then again, what do I know. At least we were smart enough to get our money out of the stock market a couple of years ago. There, some more wasted breath.

[firstgenaddict]

If the government wouldn't mess with CAFE standards etc and get the hell out of businesses business then we would all be a whole lot better off!

[Keith Tedford]

Now, that's a good point. Up here it is just as bad if not worse. We have a lot where we could build a home more suited to older retired people like we are getting to be. All the hoops that you have to go through just make it not worth the trouble. A friend, who lives in the rich peoples Muskoka cottage country, told me that you will have at least $28K invested in all the hoop jumping before you ever put a shovel in the ground. Now, that has to be way worse than any union ever was.

[kwhizz]

Sammy speaks "Words of Wisdom"........

Unious at least pulled money out of the rich and have created somewhat of a safety net for the destitute and poor. I wouldn't want unions running the country, but I think that they have their place, to a point. The multi-nationals must be rubbing their hands with glee at playing us off against 1.3 billion Chinese slaves. Oh yes, they do pay them a little so that they can't be called slaves.
"Quote".....Sammy


See Below...........


Clinton Proposes Renewing China's Most-Favored Trade Status
Congressional reaction mixed amidst larger China policy issues
WASHINGTON (AllPolitics, June 3) -- President Bill Clinton on Wednesday proposed renewing most-favored-nation (MFN) trade status for China, saying it was "clearly in our nation's interest" as he urged Congress to support the request.


Most-favored-nation status offers low tariffs and treats countries as normal trading partners.

"Trade is also an important part of our relationship with China. Our exports have tripled over the last decade and now support over 170,000 American jobs," Clinton argued.

"This status does not convey any special privilege," Clinton said. "It is simply ordinary, natural fair treatment offered to virtually every nation on Earth."

Clinton cited China's hosting of a five-nation meeting in Geneva this week as an important example of the role Beijing can play in "meeting the challenges of the 21st Century."

[427TJ]

Clinton was undoubtedly strongly lobbied by American corporate interests to renew MFN for China. Why should the Chinese have sole access to all that near-slave labor? American companies wanted access to Chinese labor and that's why MFN gets renewed. Quid pro quo. You give me MFN status and I'll let you set up your factories in my country. It's just business.

Remember, it was President Nixon who first approached Communist China back in the early 1970s.

[Donutblue]

[ QUOTE ]
If the government wouldn't mess with CAFE standards etc and get the hell out of businesses business then we would all be a whole lot better off!

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe we would have a more efficient government if politicians were required to stamp time cards and wear uniforms void of any pockets.

[kwhizz]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If the government wouldn't mess with CAFE standards etc and get the hell out of businesses business then we would all be a whole lot better off!

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe we would have a more efficient government if politicians were required to stamp time cards and wear uniforms void of any pockets.

[/ QUOTE ]

I Vote that there be "NO" Politicians......get a rotating system of Normal "WORKING" people to come in and run the Country.....It'll probably work much better....."Oh Yeah!!"....that's right.....I forgot..Politicials are so much "Smarter" than the Rest of us that we couldn't come close to doing their Job's because we are not "Sophisicated" enough to understand what they "DO" and why they "DO" it........

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif Ken http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[L-79 Nova]

Don't forget where 40 hour work weeks, vacations, pensions and many other things came from and raised the standard of living in this country. UNIONS!! Ron, proud union retiree.

[Kim_Howie]

Doesn't matter if they were Dems or Reps. THEY BOTH SCREWED US. Both are taking care their buddies. And you & I get to pay for it. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

[1968 nova ss]

Well ,have to agree with ya on that Mr.Howie. and you don;t see the government helping families home from going into foreclosure either .Chris

[Schonyenko2]

Sammy, I had about a page written out, but it timed me out, so you're all spared.
Chris, don't agree with Howie. It only encourages him. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Whizzer, define normal. The Gov of Ill. believes he's normal, so's Dubya. Charlie Manson, Hannibal Lectner, and Joe Stalin thought so too. Now Hitler, he knew he was superior. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Let me add one small thing. If a hungry man steals a loaf of bread, he's arrested and goes to jail. Bernie Madoff hasn't spent a minute in jail for 50 billion. Nor have the folks who engineered the debacle on Wall street.
What happened to "with liberty, and Justice for all".
Can we continue to devalue, and lower the economic standards of the working class of Americans, while the affluent walk away with impunity? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[quick-bowtie]

AMEN!!

[Chateau Slate 66]

[ QUOTE ]
Doesn't matter if they were Dems or Reps. THEY BOTH SCREWED US. Both are taking care their buddies. And you & I get to pay for it. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I have had my disagreements with Mr. Howie, but this is right on the money. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

I am just a middle class American. I make too much money for any handouts and don't make enough to hide my money and "show no income". There will never be a true middle class tax cut because we are the only ones paying.

[Kim_Howie]

Ken both dems & rep Screwed us get off your high horse and get over it period!!! They both have screwed us!! They are all self pointing pricks that have done what. DUD screwed all of us.End of story!!!

[Schonyenko2]

I think I follow you on the self pointing pricks, but I'm missing who the hell DUD is.
And my horse isn't high. The question is.. A man walks away with 50 billoin dollars and isn't put in jail. 50 BILLION DOLLARS. The CEO's who subvert and game the system so their wall street firms and themselves become mega rich to the point of bringing the country to the verge of economic collapse are not in jail. And now the Southern GOP polititions want to equal the wage scale so that even though the states like Alabama who subsidised, and paid incentives to the foreign companies who's cars you won't even insure.
I won't get over it, and we'll fight this fight forever.
Unbridled, unregulated capitalism, watched over by people who make "atta boy Brownie" look like a genious have brought us here. And your right that Democrats were complicent too. But they didn't appoint the folks runnin the SEC.
Now have a nice day. Damn, you're gonna make me start drinkin again. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

[Salvatore]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif Mayor!

[camarojoe]

Just a reminder guys... (http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/293363/an/0/page/0#Post293363)

[m22mike]

I figured that was coming http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

Mike http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[BARN FIND]

[ QUOTE ]


Just a reminder guys... (http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/293363/an/0/page/0#Post293363)

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL... It is kinda hard to talk about the Big 3 and the UAW without getting political

[BARN FIND]

If you don't think we need Unions then read the book "Out Of This Furnace" or better yet talk to the wife of a man who died in a coal mine before there were Unions.

[427TJ]

Schonye: http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Schonyenko2]

Just so you all know. Howie and me are actually pretty good friends. We visit quite often, and agree on a lot of things....sorta. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif We did agree this morning that this isn't really political, more domestic, and that Joe Barr should be banned. Carry on. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[kwhizz]

Schoney for President http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

Ken http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[Xplantdad]

Not to mention that the congress just gave themselves a raise.

http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/agencies/a/raise4congress.htm

Talk about being out of touch with reality... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif

[TXSS]

and on top of everything else Congress has voted themselves a 4,700.00 a year raise for next year. Hay, it's only 2.5M a year. That's chump change and Americans are the chumps. That's just insulting to working Americans. It just goes to show their mentality and the contempt politicians have for Americans. If I had done my job as badly as they have I would be FIRED not given a raise. Maybe even arrested. They do things like this because they know they can get away with it...and they will get away with it. The US Government is first and foremost nothing more than a Cash Cow to politicians and their cronies. 99.9% don't give a flying F*&K about America or Americans. I have no problem with a person gaining as much wealth as possible. But not with my money or with power given to you by me. How is it that a Governor making 200K a year gets elected to a federal office and 10 years later he/she has a net worth of 200million. I don't know...Ask Bill Clinton. I'm sick to death of American politicians. Some how I don't feel better.

[427TJ]

[ QUOTE ]
Not to mention that the congress just gave themselves a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously, is that the height of arrogance or what? Now you know how revolutions get started.

Auto execs use their corporate jets to fly to DC and congress is "outraged" at the arrogance of that. Congress is so offended that they vote themselves a pay raise. As Mel Brooks once said: "It's good to be king."

[njsteve]

The above link refers to the 2004 pay raise.

I wonder what the 2009 raise will be since each one probably lost a portion of that $50 Billion invested with that Wall Street scam artist.

[Salvatore]

Say it again Rick! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[1969grb]

Ken, I'm with you, Schoney for President!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif
Grady

[Xplantdad]

[ QUOTE ]
The above link refers to the 2004 pay raise.

I wonder what the 2009 raise will be since each one probably lost a portion of that $50 Billion invested with that Wall Street scam artist.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dag Nab it...I hate when I do that...Sorry Steve!

Here's the correct one! (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2008/12/20/pay-raises-lawmakers-angers-watchdog-groups/)

[427TJ]

"Members of Congress make an average of $169,300 a year, with Congressional leaders making slightly more. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Cailf., makes $217,400, while the majority and minority leaders in the House and Senate each make $188,100.

The raise will increase the average salary to about $174,000, up 2.8 percent."

[Seattle Sam]

[ QUOTE ]
"Members of Congress make an average of $169,300 a year, with Congressional leaders making slightly more. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Cailf., makes $217,400, while the majority and minority leaders in the House and Senate each make $188,100.

The raise will increase the average salary to about $174,000, up 2.8 percent."

[/ QUOTE ]

Two things I don't get -
1. Why does anybody making over $150,000 need a cost of living raise?
2. Why is Congress willing to hide behind a law that gives them automatic increases every year?

By the way, the same article says the typical person on Social Security will get $63.00.

[427TJ]

Sam, one answer for both questions: Beacuse they can.

[L-79 Nova]

Hope this isn't to political, get your shoes off. Ron...

http://www.aksalser.com/game.htm

[Justbad Joe]

[ QUOTE ]
Schoney for President http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

Ken http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Please don't encourage the man. It's bad enough I grew up around him and his ways of mind manipulation. Howie I used to be a good kid. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Joe

[ORIGLS6]

Let's make him Governor of Illinois first.





PLEASE! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[Kim_Howie]

You have looked at some of the E-mails he has sent you?? I don't think we need him as Gov of Ill. believe me!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[Kim_Howie]

You might be right Joe. I am sorry I pick on you. I know now it's not your fault. Sorry. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[Schonyenko2]

Yep...that's why we blame his mom. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Justbad Joe]

[ QUOTE ]
Schoney for President http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

Ken http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
I can see it now, he will have to choose between Oprah or Rosie to be his running mate. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Joe

[Kim_Howie]

Now that's a scary thought!!!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

[firstgenaddict]

[ QUOTE ]
$28K invested in all the hoop jumping before you ever put a shovel in the ground.

[/ QUOTE ]


To build a new papermill in the US on a piece of raw dirt it costs 10 yrs in environmental studies and about 50 mil before you turn a shovel!

[Kim_Howie]

We in Iowa just build it, then get the permits. When they fight you, you tell them you will take them to court for violation of your rights . http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[Kim_Howie]

I built a 40x100 garage behind my house. They tried to stop me. I took them to court & won. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Seattle Sam]

[ QUOTE ]
Ken, I'm with you, Schoney for President!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif
Grady

[/ QUOTE ]

SHO - KNEE! SHO - KNEE! SHO - KNEE! SHO - KNEE!

[Stefano]

I believe that President Elect Obama may have an Ambassadorship planed for Ken.

[427TJ]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
$28K invested in all the hoop jumping before you ever put a shovel in the ground.

[/ QUOTE ]


To build a new papermill in the US on a piece of raw dirt it costs 10 yrs in environmental studies and about 50 mil before you turn a shovel!

[/ QUOTE ]

That's only if you don't know who to bribe. (Or is it whom?)

[Schonyenko2]

[ QUOTE ]
We in Iowa just build it, then get the permits. When they fight you, you tell them you will take them to court for violation of your rights . http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

My God... you sound just like one of those trial lovin liberal Democrats yellin about their civil rights, and wantin to sue everybody. Geez, you probably got one of those ACLU cards in your pocket.
I'm callin Rush. Your outta the Ditto heads. And where's Kwizz? We know how he likes lawyers. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif
In keeping with the thread a little, CNN's In the money had a discussion on labor. 10 of the most productive plants in the US, are UAW represented plants. And since the two tiered wage scale system has been approved by the UAW , the difference in wage/benefits/legacy costs is very little.
The issue isn't as much labor as credit availability, and uncertanty about the financial future.
Also, the automakers were qued up to run trucks, SUV's and high dollar high profit models. When gas hit 4 bucks, that market stopped. There was no real leadership towards energy efficient cars, nor any real public demand until the gas crunch. A perfect storm of events it seems.

[kwhizz]

And since the two tiered wage scale system has been approved by the UAW , the difference in wage/benefits/legacy costs is very little.


Common Sense is kicking in..........But.......The Reality is.........The Legacy costs will live on for many years to come.......As it probably should.....as those people worked their lifes under that set of Rules when the Auto Companies were very profitable........Now......What is Fair to them........Tough Call......If the Rules are changed due to the current Economic "Challenges" and the Profit Margins come back in a year or two.....Then What...the newer Hires understand the Rules at the time of their Employment and will have to provide for their future accordingly........What would then be fair to the Retirees...You have to look at this from "BOTH" perspectives......You can't Kill the Patient (G.M...Ford)....or "Keep" things the way they are........Tough Situation........
But.........Don't worry.......Remember....the Politicians know what is "Best" for us "Smelly" Taxpayers and will do the right thing....... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif

Ken http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[Salvatore]

WOW Ken. You are the man! Yes, money dried up and the plants shut down. But lets still blame Labor cause it is easier! If we all worked for $5.00 an hour in this country we could still not compete with the Chinese I bet. When trade between different countries started some 200 years ago, we traded for things we did NOT have like silk, tea, some jewels and so forth. We never traded for things we had like steel, food, medicines etc. We just need to start producing the things we used to do on tighter budgets, a breather from the EPA and stricter trade enforcements. Why import something we can produce or make here? We used to lead the Industrialized Nations in everything! We have to get back on track before they remove the word "factory" from our dictionaries. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Kim_Howie]

The public wanted SUV & big trucks. GM gave them what they wanted. Gas crunch and G M is the bad guy B>S> Same thing in 1973 nobody learned a thing. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif