71 Challenger Pace Car - Value?

[thunderbeach]

This car is for sale in Toronto and we are looking at it this week, I can't find any for sale, the one on Cars-on-line was changed from $65K to $165K and it is sold. Anybody know the value of these? Thanks in advance. AD READS 1971 Challenger Pace Car – Very very rare car 1 of 50 made, only 28 known today and this one is listed and verified on the Pace Car Registry. Hemi orange, white interior, 318, automatic, ps, pb. The actual pace car had a 383 and 2 others had a 340, the other 47 were 318 cars. Needs restoration. Needs lower 1/4s, left fender, floor and trunk pans. Frame rails are good. Build sheet. Serious inquires only please.

[KNAPPY]

Try these guys
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php

[canadian_ssl78]

It looks complete but needs quarters and floors. Neat car when done
http://i565.photobucket.com/albums/ss95/1toybldr/challenger.jpg

[1969z280]

Michael:

There was a really nice one for sale at the Fall Auburn Auction in the car corral. I talked to the fellow who owned it for quite some time. The car was cosmetically restored and did not appear to need anything. It had lots of paperwork and he was asking $54K if I remember correctly.I thought it was a pretty good deal but the 318 kind of turned me off. That's about all I know. I can't believe the $165K price. Ed

[thunderbeach]

The car was advertised at 65K but when a friend called they told him it was supposed to be $165K but the car was sold. They could have just been playing games with him. I just talked to the owner of this car and he is asking $40K and would like to see around $35K.

[Andy]

[ QUOTE ]
I just talked to the owner of this car and he is asking $40K and would like to see around $35K.

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That sounds like a fair price for a convertible e-body. Especially one as special as this one.

[StealthBird]

The 1971 Challenger Pace Car was famous, but not in a good way. It was always be remembered as the Pace Car that nearly killed a dozen reporters at the Indy 500. It will the recklessness of the driver (local car dealer) that changed the policy for the selection of the Indy 500 Pace Car and Pace Car Driver forever. From 1972 on, the Pace Car would be driven by an experienced driver, and local dealers would no longer be involved in promoting or sponsoring the race. In fact, the 1971 accident scared away the Big 3 from sponsoring the 1972 race, but George Hurst saw an opportunity to promote his new 1972 Hurst/Olds, and that became the 1972 Pace Car.

This backstory of the 1971 Challenger Pace Car doesn't have anything to do with its value today, but among Indy 500 Pace Car fans, the 71 Challenger Pace Car will always be remembered as the most embarrassing Pace Car incident in Indy 500 history.

Here's the footage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTNDPmIO4Lw

[Hylton]

[ QUOTE ]
The car was advertised at 65K but when a friend called they told him it was supposed to be $165K but the car was sold. They could have just been playing games with him. I just talked to the owner of this car and he is asking $40K and would like to see around $35K.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty sure that very car crossed hands a few years ago for 55K. Not bad a price at 35K.

[njsteve]

Actually it was not the pace car driver Eldon Palmer of Palmer Dodge that caused the wreck - It was the track people who caused it.

During the weeks before the race he had been practicing with a disc brake equipped car. He knew exactly where to start braking by the placement of specific braking marker cones/flags on pit road.

On the day of the race, the track people replaced his disc brake car with a four wheel drum brake equipped car. To make matters worse, the braking marker cones/flags were removed after the race started.

He came down pit road hard and fast, noticed too late that there were no cones, started braking, and if you have ever driven a Chrysler with 4 wheel drums you know what happened next...the brakes faded out to nothing. He actually had a clear shot to roll out onto the apron at the end of pit road but the track officials stood in the pit lane exit giving him the choice of killing them or going under a grandstand.

You can actually see in the film footage the track people standing in the exit lane, directing him right into the media stand. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTNDPmIO4Lw

The actual pace car was not very heavily damaged. It had some fender and hood damage and was purchased a few years back from Mr. Palmer by a collector.

[Chevy454]

Never heard about any of that...that is WILD!

[MosportGreen66]

wow. was anyone hurt?

[njsteve]

A bunch of the reporters were thrown around and injured, but not seriously.

Imagine the final scene in Animal House when the Deathmobile crashes into Dean Vernon Wormer and friends perched on the grandstand. That's basically what happened.

[SmallHurst]

[ QUOTE ]
A bunch of the reporters were thrown around and injured, but not seriously.

Imagine the final scene in Animal House when the Deathmobile crashes into Dean Vernon Wormer and friends perched on the grandstand. That's basically what happened.

[/ QUOTE ]

RAMMING SPEED!!!! Oh boy, this is great!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[StealthBird]

Steve, watch the video again, and you can see ol' Eldon is ACCELERATING down pit lane!! While the story about "no cones" and a "drum brake car" may be true, there was absolutely NO reason for a driver to continue accelerating a Pace Car down pit road after coming off the track! Indy has a looooong pit lane, and ol' Eldon should have been doing about 40 mph when he passed the start/finish line.

What's probably more believable is that ol' Eldon was excited, he was showing off in front of hundreds of thousands of people, he thought it would be cool to "run with the pack" for a couple seconds, and unfortunately he lost control. There may have been a "misplaced braking cone", but when you've supposedly rehearsed this a dozen times, you'd have to realize something was seriously wrong as you pass the start/finish line bricks at 100 mph! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I think a better story is that because of Mopar's horrible 1971 build quality, the throttle stuck wide open, Eldon slammed on the brakes, the rear end hopped violently, and he lost control. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[njsteve]

The problem was he did practice for weeks with a power disc brake equipped car. He didn't find out that the race day car didn't have them til he pressed the brakes hard while coming down pit road. Back then there was a big difference in the lack of stopping ability between those two systems.

I've had a few 71 E-bodies with that exact same 11x3 four wheel manual drum brake setup. You had only one good five second heavy application of brakes at any high speed before they would fade to nothing.

From a forensic accident reconstruction viewpoint, the violent yaw of the front to the left side (into oncoming traffic) was a unique idiosynchracy of this brake system. Trying to stop a fully loaded 4,000 lb car with that setup from 120 mph would have been a completely futile effort.

It is a scary thing, and from experience, it would happen at any speed over 40 mph or so. My old 71 hemicuda ragtop had that same brake setup. I ended up replacing the linings with full metallic shoes at all four corners. Took a while to heat up but it gave me at least 5 panic stops before they would fade out. (That was one of reasons I sold it - too dangerous to drive.)

The actual pace car had a 383/300 horsepower engine - not much power at all to impress anyone. Good for about a 15 second 1/4 mile.

[StealthBird]

Steve, I agree about the braking system http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

The 71 Pace Car Challenger in the video appears to be doing in excess of 100 mph when it passes the camera, and it seems like Eldon should have been slowing well before that point. I'm not sure how long the Indy pit lane is, but I believe the straightaway is 5/8 mile, so I'm guessing the pit lane is at least 1/4 mile long? Maybe 1500 ft? I would think that even a drum brake Mopar, doing 100 mph, would take around 400 feet to come to an aggressive stop, maybe 600 feet for a nice controlled stop. Eldon (in the video) seems to be going full throttle going past the camera. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

The 1971 Challenger 383 (with pdb) is one of the old road test videos I have up on YouTube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMCoRhsPCG0 Check out the 70-0 mph braking at 3:11 into the video. It took 211 ft to bring it down from 70 mph, and sideways at that! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

[njsteve]

[ QUOTE ]
Steve, I agree about the braking system http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

The 1971 Challenger 383 (with pdb) is one of the old road test videos I have up on YouTube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMCoRhsPCG0 Check out the 70-0 mph braking at 3:11 into the video. It took 211 ft to bring it down from 70 mph, and sideways at that! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup, That's what we call in the legal trade: "Evidence" http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif