cammer427
03-04-2009, 08:04 AM
Ok, I really need some clarification on this topic.
Tony DeFeo (magazine editor) published a story in Cars magazine in the mid-to-late '80s (I heard it may have been a 1986 issue..) about a 'legendary' street race he coined the "Quarter Million Quarter Mile" which occurred in the late '60s. I first heard of the race by coming across a typed-up version of the magazine article on a website.
DeFeo knew an ex-street racer and speed shop owner named "Bobby" who originally told him about the race. The story published in Cars basically quotes what Bobby told DeFeo.
Go to: http://www.ronaldlyles.com/services to read the 'typed' up copy of the story. The two participants in the race, according to Bobby, were the "Mutt Brothers" (Ronald Lyles would most likely have been driving) and "Super John" McFadden.
At first I thought it was the coolest story I had ever heard, but then after some research I realised there were some inconsistencies. I'm wondering if Bobby in DeFeo's old article may have had a simple case of a lapse of memory when recalling those almost 20 year old (at the time) details. Or maybe DeFeo himself (since I doubt he was sitting there writing all that Bobby said down on a notepad) messed up on some of the details in his own story.
Inconsistency #1: The Year of the Race
In the story, Bobby says the race occurred in 1968. He mentions the following: "You see, back in the late '60s there was kind of a war going on... Those guys from Jersey [would] come over and kick our asses, they'd take our money and make us look bad on our own land... The Mutt Brothers [from Brooklyn] were good, though... And it didn't take long before we started makin' the Jersey boys look bad. Yeah, it was the Mutt Brothers and Super John... Between the Mutt Brothers and Super John, we pretty much turned the Jersey dudes away. So here it comes, after a few years of jerkin' around with these [New Jersey] guys, it comes down to the Mutt Brothers and Super John. There had to be a king and it came down to one run between the two cars... The stakes were high. Now remember, we're talkin' 1968 bucks here. It was $125,000 a side, a quarter million buck purse."
The problem with this is that I came across this photo on Ronald Lyles' (one of the Mutt Bros)homepage: http://ronaldlyles.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/DSCF4933.153124516_std.jpg
It's the cover of the July 2002 S&K Speed Shop catalog which has an article on the '68 Hemi Dart used in the race (S&K sold their '68 Hemi Dart to the Mutt Bros before the race) and states that the car was "purchased back in the spring of '68" and that S&K "raced it all over the eastern U.S. between 1968 and 1970... The car was sold in 1970 to a Brooklyn street racer who primered the car and allegedly won $35,000 with it in the first month." In summary, S&K makes "Bobby's" 1968 year impossible, stating the car was under S&K ownership from '68 right up until 1970 until it was presumably sold to the Mutt Bros (Eugene Coard mentions on the RonaldLyles.com website that he was the one who approached Bryan Higgins, owner of S&K at the time, and asked to buy the car). So, according to the information provided by this S&K article, this clearly puts the earliest possible year of the big race at 1970. Regardless, "Bobby" in DeFeo's article recalled the race years later, which means he may have been mistaken about certain facts (i.e: the year), which could explain the contradictions (perhaps Bobby meant 'in 1968, the Jersey boys were kicking our asses, then after a couple years the Mutt Bros and Super John finally sent them home packing and now their had to be a face off to see who was King' which would put the race at 1970 - which would work except that when Bobby talks about how much each side bet on the race, he said "$125,000 a side, and remember, this is 1968 dollars we're talking about here."
(Possible) Inconsistency #2: The Year of "Super Johns" Camaro
McFadden drove a 1969 Chevrolet Camaro in the race. Chevrolet released the 1969-model Camaro in September of 1968, which would have given the race approximately 4 months to occur in order for "Bobby" to be correct with his "1968" statement. Though some observations need to be brought forth: Bobby says "Between the Mutt Brothers and Super John, we pretty much turned the Jersey dudes away. So here it comes, after a few years of jerkin' around with these [New Jersey] guys, it comes down to the Mutt Brothers and Super John." I presume Bobby is saying that McFadden had his Camaro for at least a 'few years' before the race occurred. So if McFadden bought his Camaro sometime in 1968, then had the car modified by Dick Harrell sometime in very late 1969 or very early 1970 (when the race may have actually occurred), it would make more sense.
Another interesting observation is that it is well known that John McFadden - who had his '69 Camaro modified by Dick Harrell before the race, who also installed a 427 Can-Am ZL-1 which was modified to 488-ci - began racing professionally for Dick Harrell early in 1970 (according to the popular 'Super John/Dick Harrell '69 Camaro' AHRA Fleer trading car), with a 1969 Camaro.
I have tried to find who this "Bobby" may have been, but not much as come out of it. Would anyone happen to know who this "Bobby" - who owned a speed shop in Brooklyn - is/was? Just my two cents on the topic, but would anyone have any further information (hopefully even first-hand!) which may clarify this all, or even simply information to add about this incredible race in general? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif
Tony DeFeo (magazine editor) published a story in Cars magazine in the mid-to-late '80s (I heard it may have been a 1986 issue..) about a 'legendary' street race he coined the "Quarter Million Quarter Mile" which occurred in the late '60s. I first heard of the race by coming across a typed-up version of the magazine article on a website.
DeFeo knew an ex-street racer and speed shop owner named "Bobby" who originally told him about the race. The story published in Cars basically quotes what Bobby told DeFeo.
Go to: http://www.ronaldlyles.com/services to read the 'typed' up copy of the story. The two participants in the race, according to Bobby, were the "Mutt Brothers" (Ronald Lyles would most likely have been driving) and "Super John" McFadden.
At first I thought it was the coolest story I had ever heard, but then after some research I realised there were some inconsistencies. I'm wondering if Bobby in DeFeo's old article may have had a simple case of a lapse of memory when recalling those almost 20 year old (at the time) details. Or maybe DeFeo himself (since I doubt he was sitting there writing all that Bobby said down on a notepad) messed up on some of the details in his own story.
Inconsistency #1: The Year of the Race
In the story, Bobby says the race occurred in 1968. He mentions the following: "You see, back in the late '60s there was kind of a war going on... Those guys from Jersey [would] come over and kick our asses, they'd take our money and make us look bad on our own land... The Mutt Brothers [from Brooklyn] were good, though... And it didn't take long before we started makin' the Jersey boys look bad. Yeah, it was the Mutt Brothers and Super John... Between the Mutt Brothers and Super John, we pretty much turned the Jersey dudes away. So here it comes, after a few years of jerkin' around with these [New Jersey] guys, it comes down to the Mutt Brothers and Super John. There had to be a king and it came down to one run between the two cars... The stakes were high. Now remember, we're talkin' 1968 bucks here. It was $125,000 a side, a quarter million buck purse."
The problem with this is that I came across this photo on Ronald Lyles' (one of the Mutt Bros)homepage: http://ronaldlyles.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/DSCF4933.153124516_std.jpg
It's the cover of the July 2002 S&K Speed Shop catalog which has an article on the '68 Hemi Dart used in the race (S&K sold their '68 Hemi Dart to the Mutt Bros before the race) and states that the car was "purchased back in the spring of '68" and that S&K "raced it all over the eastern U.S. between 1968 and 1970... The car was sold in 1970 to a Brooklyn street racer who primered the car and allegedly won $35,000 with it in the first month." In summary, S&K makes "Bobby's" 1968 year impossible, stating the car was under S&K ownership from '68 right up until 1970 until it was presumably sold to the Mutt Bros (Eugene Coard mentions on the RonaldLyles.com website that he was the one who approached Bryan Higgins, owner of S&K at the time, and asked to buy the car). So, according to the information provided by this S&K article, this clearly puts the earliest possible year of the big race at 1970. Regardless, "Bobby" in DeFeo's article recalled the race years later, which means he may have been mistaken about certain facts (i.e: the year), which could explain the contradictions (perhaps Bobby meant 'in 1968, the Jersey boys were kicking our asses, then after a couple years the Mutt Bros and Super John finally sent them home packing and now their had to be a face off to see who was King' which would put the race at 1970 - which would work except that when Bobby talks about how much each side bet on the race, he said "$125,000 a side, and remember, this is 1968 dollars we're talking about here."
(Possible) Inconsistency #2: The Year of "Super Johns" Camaro
McFadden drove a 1969 Chevrolet Camaro in the race. Chevrolet released the 1969-model Camaro in September of 1968, which would have given the race approximately 4 months to occur in order for "Bobby" to be correct with his "1968" statement. Though some observations need to be brought forth: Bobby says "Between the Mutt Brothers and Super John, we pretty much turned the Jersey dudes away. So here it comes, after a few years of jerkin' around with these [New Jersey] guys, it comes down to the Mutt Brothers and Super John." I presume Bobby is saying that McFadden had his Camaro for at least a 'few years' before the race occurred. So if McFadden bought his Camaro sometime in 1968, then had the car modified by Dick Harrell sometime in very late 1969 or very early 1970 (when the race may have actually occurred), it would make more sense.
Another interesting observation is that it is well known that John McFadden - who had his '69 Camaro modified by Dick Harrell before the race, who also installed a 427 Can-Am ZL-1 which was modified to 488-ci - began racing professionally for Dick Harrell early in 1970 (according to the popular 'Super John/Dick Harrell '69 Camaro' AHRA Fleer trading car), with a 1969 Camaro.
I have tried to find who this "Bobby" may have been, but not much as come out of it. Would anyone happen to know who this "Bobby" - who owned a speed shop in Brooklyn - is/was? Just my two cents on the topic, but would anyone have any further information (hopefully even first-hand!) which may clarify this all, or even simply information to add about this incredible race in general? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif