Low oil pressure in ZL-1

[Alss]

I am in the middle of taking the ZL-1 out of the Malibu. Really PO'd but at least its not blown up. OIl pressure is very low..29 lbs cold and less than 5 hot...not good!!..been that way since we started it up fresh machinist will take care of it whatever it is....were thinking bad oil pump or pick up as the oil is foaming..or maybe a missing gally plug..oil filter is good also..first time this has happened with a new motor..dont know who is worse..me or the machinist..he keeps calling to check on my progress..we shall see what the problem is..thanks for hearing my vent

Albert

[njsteve]

Better to catch it now when it's still fresh versus later when the low pressure has taken its toll.

Was the pickup welded to the pump?

[Rixls6]

Good thing your machinist is that concerned about it.
Hope it turns out to be a simple fix.

[jeff morocco]

that happened to me too with one of the motors for the 57. only ran it for a few hours and took it to the track. staged the car and noticed i had only 5 lbs of pressure....spun a bearing some how. at least it was caught before anything too bad happened....i feel your misery !!

[427king]

The pickup is most likely not your problem ,but add 3 Qts of oil above full ,if it doesnt change the pressure its not the pickup. Drain oil and stick a wire in the pan to feel around for the pickup. Foaming is most likely due to moisture [water] or contaminate in oil. And of course check the gauge to see if its working right.

[Alss]

[ QUOTE ]
The pickup is most likely not your problem ,but add 3 Qts of oil above full ,if it doesnt change the pressure its not the pickup. Drain oil and stick a wire in the pan to feel around for the pickup. Foaming is most likely due to moisture [water] or contaminate in oil. And of course check the gauge to see if its working right.

[/ QUOTE ]

This motor has had poor pressure since I started it for the first time..I have changed the filter..added extra oil, checked both the eletic factory gauge and the mechanical guage with no changes.pipck up is welded...motor is quiet and has oil on the top end..just looses most of its presure when hot..crank is new..rods are new..machinist is very qualified..we have recently fired 4 of his motors..2 L-78's 1 454 and my 427..the other three are perfect 60 psi cold 30-60 hot with good response to the throttle..it has to be the pump is no good..cant be anything else?? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[427king]

Have you replaced the pressure relief valve?

[Alss]

[ QUOTE ]
Have you replaced the pressure relief valve?

[/ QUOTE ]

this block does not use one.....bowtie design thanks for the good ideas..keep them coming..gotta be a simple answer

[427king]

Pull motor,drop pan,change pump.Dyno. Lastly, dont assume you cant have crud [or a blocked screen] in a brand new motor. Have seen many silicone/gasket material blocked motors too.

[Alss]

[ QUOTE ]
Pull motor,drop pan,change pump.Dyno. Lastly, dont assume you cant have crud [or a blocked screen] in a brand new motor. Have seen many silicone/gasket material blocked motors too.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree..motor is coming out tomrrow and will be inspected thoroughly..Ill post the findings

[68CamSS]

Triple check the bearings.

[69SSZL1]

Is this a new ZL-1 Chevy block 053 casting? it does use a relief valve under the oil filter. Make sure is was installed and staked in the correct hole as there are 2 holes it fits in. If not there, could be your problem.

[Alss]

[ QUOTE ]
Is this a new ZL-1 Chevy block 053 casting? it does use a relief valve under the oil filter. Make sure is was installed and staked in the correct hole as there are 2 holes it fits in. If not there, could be your problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont remember puttng that in..do you have more info that I can use??

[69SSZL1]

Remove your oil filter and look at the block. There are 2 large (3/4"?) holes. 1 large hole should have a check valve in it or you will bleed pressure like crazy. The valve is availible thru Chevy Performance Parts-Scoggin Dickey knows what it is if you tell them its for ZL-1 block.

[Alss]

thats got to be it!!..never put one in!!!

[69SSZL1]

The relief valve part number is 25013759. This is the set-up on all ZL-1's. I would have to remove my oil filter to see which hole I put it in as I don't remember.

[69SSZL1]

Check it, and if you don't have one in the block let us know.

[Alss]

I know I did not put one in..Ill verify it in the AM and order that piece..many thanks!!

ALbert

[njsteve]

Wow, this is better than any soap opera or game show. It actually has a happy ending (crossing my fingers at the moment). Alss, update us as soon as you know.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Joe69Camaro]

Sounds Like sound advise to me from 69ss ZL1... Lets check it out tomorrow.. Sounds like what is going on!!!! All the problems indicate the facts at hand... And lets go from there....

[TXSS]

69SSZL1 is correct. If this is an 053 block. The relief valve and the filter nipple have to be purchased separately and installed by the user. For some reason they don't come with the block. I left it out of the first ZL-1 I built and had about the same numbers as you're seeing. Easy Fix

Relief Valve (http://paceperformance.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=22977)

[Bill Rose]

[ QUOTE ]
Sounds Like sound advise to me from 69ss ZL1... Lets check it out tomorrow.. Sounds like what is going on!!!! All the problems indicate the facts at hand... And lets go from there....

[/ QUOTE ]

Man! I guess they'll let anyone join this site http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif
Just kiddin Joe. Welcome to SYC..

Joe was nice enough to stop in a few weeks ago and help out with the firing of my ElCamino..... and it's a good thing Joe was there. It needed some more valve adjusting, before it lit http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[SuperNovaSS]

Sounds hopeful! I hope you didn't get too far in the removal ALbert!

[Dog427435]

[b]The knowledge on this board never ceases to amaze me!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/youguysrock.gif

[HPMIKE]

There is a lesson here. When you build an engine, always pre-lube it on the stand with a priming shaft. May not be able to catch a mechanical problem or assembly error, but a problem like this, or a missing galley plug would have easily been found.

MB

[Alss]

[ QUOTE ]
[b]The knowledge on this board never ceases to amaze me!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/youguysrock.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

aint that the truth..thanks everyone http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/youguysrock.gif

[Alss]

[ QUOTE ]
There is a lesson here. When you build an engine, always pre-lube it on the stand with a priming shaft. May not be able to catch a mechanical problem or assembly error, but a problem like this, or a missing galley plug would have easily been found.

MB

[/ QUOTE ]

Did prelube the motor..had 30 psi cold with a drill tought it was good..different story when hot!!!

[HPMIKE]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There is a lesson here. When you build an engine, always pre-lube it on the stand with a priming shaft. May not be able to catch a mechanical problem or assembly error, but a problem like this, or a missing galley plug would have easily been found.

MB

[/ QUOTE ]

Did prelube the motor..had 30 psi cold with a drill tought it was good..different story when hot!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Not trying to beat you up, but I would have stopped right there. 30 psi cold and you will have practically nothing hot as you found. In any engine, the cold oil pressure will be significantly higher than when hot. You should have seen somewhere between 60-80 psi cold, depending on the internal clearancing. Then the motor would make around 20-40(sometimes higher-alot of variables here), once it warmed up.

Point is if you know that the oil pressure was 30 cold and it will drop sgnificantly when hot, then the 30psi reading was enough cause for concern. When you spin the drill up on the stand, the drill should "kick back" significantly. 30 psi will barely affect a quality 1/2" drill. Hopefully the engine was assembled with a high quality assembly lube. You would be surprised at how well that stuff will lubricate in the event of an issue such as this.

The motor is proabaly fine, especially if you didn't load it down. Glad the you found the source of the problem early. Keep us posted.

MB

[SS427]

[ QUOTE ]
Check it, and if you don't have one in the block let us know.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats what we love about this site. It's people like this who come forward with a little help and knowledge and potentially save someone a little money and LOTS of time!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Chevy454]

[ QUOTE ]
There is a lesson here. When you build an engine, always pre-lube it on the stand with a priming shaft. May not be able to catch a mechanical problem or assembly error, but a problem like this, or a missing galley plug would have easily been found. MB

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't feel bad, Al, I learned a similar lesson years ago...early block, new cam/lifters [most of you probably already know where this is going!], had the thing ready to drop in minus the carb, was priming it on the stand, and noticed it never would oil the top end...naturally, the early block required the grooved cam, which I had neglected to purchase! So, apart she came, Mo put the cam on a lathe, and then we were back in business...just glad we found it before we wasted a day on the dyno! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

[Alss]

Just verified the pressure reg is NOT in the block....its ordered and on its way..glad I didnt get the motor ALL the way out. Thanks SYC

[Chevy454]

That is *great* news, Al! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

Big props to 69SSZL1 for the catch! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[69SSZL1]

Aw shucks. Just glad Alss can get that ZL-1 running and really hammer on it. These motors are monsters and run real well when dialed in. Hey don't forget 427king mentioned the relief valve early on.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[iluv69s]

Probably not the problem, but I bought an all rebuilt ZL1 motor and when dynod it had problems similar...The builder forgot to put in the 2 extra studs in each head that are only on a ZL1 motor...water was mixing with the oil and we had poor oil pressure when warmed up...after fixing problem, the motor dynod at 603 HP with LOTSSS of oil pressure!!! Bolts can be used if you cannot find the correct studs....but they need to be drilled and wiretied after torquing....hope that helps...good luck!!

[Joe69Camaro]

Thanks Bill For your recognition... I really am proud that you let me work with your BABY... She is stunning. But soon needs to be spanked like mine...LOL.. Let me know if I can ever help you!!! I am There

[Joe69Camaro]

WOW... Can some people not read ???? AIR IN OIL...NOT WATER
BB head problems with studs and bolts are common.... This is NOT

[camarojoe]

[ QUOTE ]
WOW... Can some people not read ???? AIR IN OIL...NOT WATER
BB head problems with studs and bolts are common.... This is NOT

[/ QUOTE ]

Welcome Joe. Just an FYI, Everyone here is just trying to help out. No need to jump down anyone's throat.

[Joe69Camaro]

Sorry, Just frustrated on this one... Really did not mean to be disrespectful to any one !!!!!

[427king]

Im sure there is someone out there that read iluv69s post and learned something that may help them down the road and thats the important thing. Both air and water in oil can cause low pressure readings and foaming in case anyone encounters that again.

[Joe69Camaro]

Both air and water in oil can cause low pressure readings and foaming in case anyone encounters that again.

REALLY???? Please foward me your expertise on this topic I am truely interested on your facts.

[Joe69Camaro]

Fact...Low Pressure is generally caused by lack of volume! Water will cause no change in volume. Air will cause fluctuaction in volume due to molicule dispersement. Correct me if I am Wrong..

[Joe69Camaro]

WOW.... There are SOME really good tech guys on here My hats off to you all!!!!!

[Charley Lillard]

Water is generally thinner than oil and will show lower pressure I believe. Example is run a engine on 30 wt oil and note the pressure and then try water and I bet the pressure is much lower.

[Alss]

OK, got the valve but which hole does it go into??.,as stated it can go in either hole but one has a shoulder and one doesnt..anyone???...help?????

[427king]

Al, I think some people are hesitant to help for fear they will be trivialized. Pms work best.

[resto4u]

Al, according to what i have read. It goes in the hole closest to the block,or right behind the oil filter thread rod if you are running an oil cooler. So makes me believe the other hole if not running a oil cooler. I would contact your GM dealer or a GM TECH for a concrete answer. Roger

[Alss]

[ QUOTE ]
Al, according to what i have read. It goes in the hole closest to the block,or right behind the oil filter thread rod if you are running an oil cooler. So makes me believe the other hole if not running a oil cooler. I would contact your GM dealer or a GM TECH for a concrete answer. Roger

[/ QUOTE ]


Roger thats right..finally got a concrete answer from someone in the know..tech line gave me the wrong answer!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif..getting a second pressure reg tomorrow and will try again. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

ALber

[69SSZL1]

Alss, I removed my oil filter and it is the hole furthest from the block (the shallowest one to the step inside the hole). The one that is on the outside rail of the filter boss. Here is a photo of mine. You have to drive it in with a socket and take a chisel and put a small stake to secure it. http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r206/OAKLYSS/oilreliefvalve.jpg

[Alss]

[ QUOTE ]
Alss, I removed my oil filter and it is the hole furthest from the block (the shallowest one to the step inside the hole). The one that is on the outside rail of the filter boss. Here is a photo of mine. You have to drive it in with a socket and take a chisel and put a small stake to secure it. http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r206/OAKLYSS/oilreliefvalve.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]


Thats where I put it..still no difference..20-25psi at best cold..guess its coming out after all http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif..hope it aint hurt http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif..thanks to everyone for there help..especially 69SSZL1 for removing his oil filter ..messy job ..I've done it 3 times today! and TXSS for phone support Ill keep everyone posted as to the problem.

ALbert

[69SSZL1]

OK... what about the 3 small (1/8") pipe plugs that go in the lifter valley?

[JoeG]

****Not saying it is,*****but I had a similar problem years ago on a rebuild--low oil pressure --oil pressure would increase some if I brought up the rpms..but would drop very low once the rpms came down----------We wound up changing the defective cam bearings,,,,Note: this is a last resort..The bright side of this problem is that you caught it in time,......

[69SSZL1]

You did put the relief valve in pointing the right way?

[69SSZL1]

Yes, wrong or loose cam bearings could do it. My machinist said the ZL-1 cam bearings were not standard BBC, he put in Dart Block bearings-Durabond HP cam bearings GMP-12. Just throwing things out there.

[Alss]

[ QUOTE ]
You did put the relief valve in pointing the right way?

[/ QUOTE ]

OK which is the right way??..looked to be only one way but ......


also noticed when we were running the oil pump with a drill it never seemed to load up when it caught prime..Usually they really need some power to turn..this one never seems to prime and load the drill..maybe bad oil pump??

[Alss]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, wrong or loose cam bearings could do it. My machinist said the ZL-1 cam bearings were not standard BBC, he put in Dart Block bearings-Durabond HP cam bearings GMP-12. Just throwing things out there.

[/ QUOTE ]

aware of the different cam bearings for this block..did buy the right one..but..we are going to re-check everything now..gonna pull some caps and make sure all is well

[HPMIKE]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You did put the relief valve in pointing the right way?

[/ QUOTE ]

OK which is the right way??..looked to be only one way but ......


also noticed when we were running the oil pump with a drill it never seemed to load up when it caught prime..Usually they really need some power to turn..this one never seems to prime and load the drill..maybe bad oil pump??

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

As stated previously,especially with cold oil the drill should kick back on you. If you aren't feeling that there there obviously is a problem. One thing you can do listen carefully because sometimes you will hear a gurgling or dripping sound where the oil pressure is being bled off. Are you running a roller cam in this motor? What type of lifter are you running??

If you would like to PM me I can carry you through this a little further. You also are more than welcome to call me at my shop (973)-267-4364.

MB

[Alss]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You did put the relief valve in pointing the right way?

[/ QUOTE ]




As stated previously,especially with cold oil the drill should kick back on you. If you aren't feeling that there there obviously is a problem. One thing you can do listen carefully because sometimes you will hear a gurgling or dripping sound where the oil pressure is being bled off. Are you running a roller cam in this motor? What type of lifter are you running??

If you would like to PM me I can carry you through this a little further. You also are more than welcome to call me at my shop (973)-267-4364.

MB

[/ QUOTE ]

thanks Mike..running a Liunati solid roller..either comp or redline/redzone/redsomething roller lifters..nothing new or exotic..really has me scratching my head..12 hrs till engine removal http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

[92646]

Leave the motor in. Load the car on a Reliable truck to southern California and I will send you a check or wire the money to you. Then you can build another restored car and we can all watch the pictures again.
Mark Sheppard

[Joe69Camaro]

BTW... Since you have so much to say, the machinist did my motor as well. And runs like a raped APE... By the way, do you have any el-camino parts for sale ????? Or other parts???

[Joe69Camaro]

NO COMMENT 427 SILICONE KING

[camarojoe]

Joe, I warned you once about personal attacks, this is warning #2. Take your bickering/name calling/parts requests/whatever to PM's. There will be no third warning.

[beater68427]

[ QUOTE ]
Joe, I warned you once about personal attacks, this is warning #2. Take your bickering/name calling/parts requests/whatever to PM's. There will be no third warning.

[/ QUOTE ]

For this reason I have had to refrain from a comment on my personal opinion on this matter. Your engine has a assembly error, to take a risk of damage of your good investment and diagnose it in the car running is rediculous! at the risk of your wallet, your taking a chance of spinning a main bearing and destroying a main journal, cranks are cheap that block is not. Take it out find the problem, When things go wrong its best to just go back and find the problem, not build a new one!! The bypass valve was a good start if it did not work you need to find the problem, the block is a mix of early oiling and the newer gen 6 priority main oiling system same as the iron bow tie blocks, its a good system but no room for error. There are a few common trait problems with them, one is if they alighn bore the rear main cap is too tight, needs to have .005 clearance, this is a typical big mistake with them, If you do not use the gm oil pump and a manley m77 instead they will sit on the inner most stud on the rear cap and areate the oil when it gets hot the psi is even lower, and most the time the pump base cracks when torqued. None of this may be the problem, but to diagnose it in the car versus the small expense of pulling it and finding the problem is in your wallet.

[Postsedan]

Albert,

Remember today is Friday the 13th, Perhaps you wait till Saturday to pull your engine. Good Luck!

Dan.

[Steve Shauger]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Joe, I warned you once about personal attacks, this is warning #2. Take your bickering/name calling/parts requests/whatever to PM's. There will be no third warning.

[/ QUOTE ]

For this reason I have had to refrain from a comment on my personal opinion on this matter. Your engine has a assembly error, to take a risk of damage of your good investment and diagnose it in the car running is rediculous! at the risk of your wallet, your taking a chance of spinning a main bearing and destroying a main journal, cranks are cheap that block is not. Take it out find the problem, When things go wrong its best to just go back and find the problem, not build a new one!! The bypass valve was a good start if it did not work you need to find the problem, the block is a mix of early oiling and the newer gen 6 priority main oiling system same as the iron bow tie blocks, its a good system but no room for error. There are a few common trait problems with them, one is if they alighn bore the rear main cap is too tight, needs to have .005 clearance, this is a typical big mistake with them, If you do not use the gm oil pump and a manley m77 instead they will sit on the inner most stud on the rear cap and areate the oil when it gets hot the psi is even lower, and most the time the pump base cracks when torqued. None of this may be the problem, but to diagnose it in the car versus the small expense of pulling it and finding the problem is in your wallet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jeff this site is about sharing common interests and helping other members. Great post, keep them coming. Again the wealth of info on this site is amazing. Thanks for enlightening me and our members. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[ORIGLS6]

Agreed Steve. Unfortunately all this information is coming at Al's expense.

Wish I had something constructive to offer Al. It's easy for me to sit here and throw out opinions but for 'insurance purposes only', I think you're doing the right thing. I'd pull it and take it down. That's a serious investment and I'd tend to err on the side of caution. Here's hoping you find something that's quick, easy and inexpensive to correct. It's gonna be one helluva ride when she's ready. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif


(all this said on Friday the 13th. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif)

[iluv69s]

[ QUOTE ]
WOW... Can some people not read ???? AIR IN OIL...NOT WATER
BB head problems with studs and bolts are common.... This is NOT

[/ QUOTE ]

WOWWW is correct.....Ive been out of the country this past week and have not been on this site...or the net for that matter.I must first say that I am very disappointed at the response to my attempt to suggest a possible reason for this problem.I am the first to say that I am the furthest thing from a mechanic and I even qualified my suggestion as probably not the problem.It is rather unbelievable to me that a person asks to keep the ideas coming and then I am treated as if I am an idiot when I try and help by suggesting a possible solution.

I have no expertise whatsoever mechanically, only my personal experience....fact..when I blew a head gasket in my car years ago, the water mixed with the oil and "the oil was foaming and the oil pressure continued to drop" as that was the way I realized the problem...
Another fact..."Yes I can read" and I have reread this thread a few times and cannot seem to see where it was stated that "the problem was air mixing with the oil"... or did I miss that part??
Another fact...head bolt/stud problems are common, agreed, but I do not believe that the 4 extra studs on the ZL1 motor can be very common as these motors are not so common. Or am I incorrect and all of you have come across ZL1 motors that the professional mechanics/engine builders forgot to put in the extra studs??

I have in the past had some conversations with fellow site members when I was not happy or had a problem for whatever reason...but ALWAYS in a private matter.

I will definitely hesitate to add my .02 in the future even if I am 100% sure I can help. ....I sincerely apologize for wasting everyone here`s time with my suggestion.

And not that I need to be stuck up for, but thanks 427KING, and others for your efforts.

once again, I quote....WOWWWWWWWWWWWWW

[JoeG]

You weren't wasting my time---It was good you put your iron in the fire to try and help with the problem...As for the sarcastic comments made by someone else.........Who gives a ##%^ about that.........The issue is to help a member............

[iluv69s]

Believe me Joe.....these comments dont bother me in the least...Life is way too short!!!!

I just hope people realize what a great resource this site is and that certain comments and attitudes only help to diminish the quality and quantity of information that comes forth. I have been greatly educated and helped on many occasions because of this site and its members....

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif


..and I do wish luck to the owner on figuring the problem quickly and getting that aluminum beast melting those tires!!!!
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

[BUIZILLA]

does the distributor body require an o-ring at the cam tunnel?

[Alss]

[ QUOTE ]
does the distributor body require an o-ring at the cam tunnel?

[/ QUOTE ]

dont know..using a MSD distributor though..it comes with two O rings but states that they are for motors with a beveled dist mount..this on is machined at a 90 deg angle so I dont think it uses any..please tell me if I am wrong!!

Well, was at the machine shop till late..and verified in front of the machinist that there is only 28 psi cold..pulled the pump and tested it in a bucket of oil(from the motor) and it made almost 80 psi!..and nearly twisted the drill out of his hands..pump is a Melling HV unit...bearings look good nothing out of the ordinary for a motor with only an hour on it..has us both scratching our heads.he tearing the whole motor down later today or on Monday and we are researching the oilong system to see what we have missed..has to be something. Thanks for everyones help and patience

ALbert

[beater68427]

I have used hundreads of Jeff's distributors, and have even done some articles on them years ago, They are a good piece, I like to run the upper o ring and not the lower and I also like to cut a .010 groove in the lower to give the cam gear a little extra oiling on roller cams. Also use assembly lube on new gears icluding cam gear and distributor gear.

[69SSZL1]

Did your verify that the 3 1/8" pipe plugs are installed in the lifter valley oil gallery? they look like bolt holes but go right into the gallery and without them the oil will just squirt into the lifter area. The distributor does not need any o-rings, any standard Chevy distributor will work.

[BUIZILLA]

double check the lower o-ring situation

what camshaft?

what year block?

also, is it a roller cam? if so are the lifters correct? if not, they could hemmorage oil by uncovering the galley/lifter bore and it bleeds towards the pan area..

if rod side clearance is more than .010/.012 it'll lose it there also

are you taking pressure readings at the oil filter pad or the rear upper port behind the intake?

[Alss]

[ QUOTE ]
Did your verify that the 3 1/8" pipe plugs are installed in the lifter valley oil gallery? they look like bolt holes but go right into the gallery and without them the oil will just squirt into the lifter area.

[/ QUOTE ]

we have a winner!!..you guys are good..just a little late..Jking http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif...pulled the intake and..smoking gun..three pipe plugs missing!..motor is cleaned-re-bearinged and re-assembled ..going to pick it up now. Glad I took it out..lots of aluminum material from the building of the block that somehow survived the cleaning both the machinist and I did.now with fresh bearings I have no worries..crank and rods are fine as is the cam bearings too.

question on 074 heads..exhaust crossover..wet or dry..I have some water in mine..from the dissassmbly poosibily?

thanks again everyone for your knowledge and support

Albert

[SuperNovaSS]

Probably a good thing those were missing or you may have never found out about the missing bypass valve? Congrats, ALbert! I wish I could have been more helpful.


Jason



Jason

[Charley Lillard]

Is your engine assembly expert smacking himself on the forehead and doing a Homer Simpson "Doh" ?

[Alss]

[ QUOTE ]
Is your engine assembly expert smacking himself on the forehead and doing a Homer Simpson "Doh" ?

[/ QUOTE ]

over and over again!..we have to have a little talk http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif

[x Baldwin Motion]

[ QUOTE ]
Is your engine assembly expert smacking himself on the forehead and doing a Homer Simpson "Doh" ?

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.blogdelossimpson.com.ar/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/20060914133129-012-421-the-simpsons-homer-d-oh-posters.jpg

[Dog427435]

[b] Happy endings are always enjoyable!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[69SSZL1]

A Homer Simpson "Woo Hoo!" and sound of beer can opening http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif. That's great, good to take it out and clean everthing. The 074 exhaust crossover should be dry unless there is a leak or when manifold was removed. Were the heads ever pressure tested? They can be leaky. Good luck and have fun, lets us know when that beast is running! My ZL-1 is in this original paint SS (sorry) http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r206/OAKLYSS/SMALLWEBZL-1.jpg

[Kim_Howie]

My ZL-1 set over a year after dyno time. It leaked water up thru the head bolts. Lots of water. The builder told me to go to my Gm dealer and buy tablets that go in the rad water. It took 6 times before it sealed. Runs fine now. I changed the oil 6 times before it quit. Just giving info to watch for on these motors. Kim

[JoeG]

Hey way to go.........But what are you 2 gonna do with all your spare time now......... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Alss]

[ QUOTE ]
My ZL-1 set over a year after dyno time. It leaked water up thru the head bolts. Lots of water. The builder told me to go to my Gm dealer and buy tablets that go in the rad water. It took 6 times before it sealed. Runs fine now. I changed the oil 6 times before it quit. Just giving info to watch for on these motors. Kim

[/ QUOTE ]


got back from picking up the motor..maachinist stayed on it till 2 AM to get it back together..disassambled, cleaned, new bearings. Its back in the shop awaiting new gaskets and a install on Monday..then http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

had the problem with the bolts..fixed that..but when I blow air into the crossover nothing comes out the exhaust..nothing!..it all goes thru the water jackets..almost as if its set up a coolant passage under the carb..good thing??bad thing?? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif.was planning on sealing the crossover area with the block off plate that comes with the intake set so it should be sealed anyway.

Albert

[69SSZL1]

BAD THING! The 074 heads don't use the heat crossover and it is a dead end and does not go to the water jacket. Your heads need to be pressure checked. Should have no water. The head bolts in the ZL-1 block are blind-they don't go into the water jacket and only require oil on the threads. The 4 extra head studs go into the 4 intake ports and need sealant-do not use silicone it is not gas resistant. Man, these ZL-1's are different animals.

[Joe69Camaro]

[ QUOTE ]
I am in the middle of taking the ZL-1 out of the Malibu. Really PO'd but at least its not blown up. OIl pressure is very low..29 lbs cold and less than 5 hot...not good!!..been that way since we started it up fresh machinist will take care of it whatever it is....were thinking bad oil pump or pick up as the oil is foaming..or maybe a missing gally plug..oil filter is good also..first time this has happened with a new motor..dont know who is worse..me or the machinist..he keeps calling to check on my progress..we shall see what the problem is..thanks for hearing my vent

Albert

[/ QUOTE ]or maybe a missing gally plug

[Verne_Frantz]

Glad to hear everything has been sorted out Al. Please let us know how she runs after its all put back together. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[beater68427]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My ZL-1 set over a year after dyno time. It leaked water up thru the head bolts. Lots of water. The builder told me to go to my Gm dealer and buy tablets that go in the rad water. It took 6 times before it sealed. Runs fine now. I changed the oil 6 times before it quit. Just giving info to watch for on these motors. Kim

[/ QUOTE ]


got back from picking up the motor..maachinist stayed on it till 2 AM to get it back together..disassambled, cleaned, new bearings. Its back in the shop awaiting new gaskets and a install on Monday..then http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

had the problem with the bolts..fixed that..but when I blow air into the crossover nothing comes out the exhaust..nothing!..it all goes thru the water jackets..almost as if its set up a coolant passage under the carb..good thing??bad thing?? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif.was planning on sealing the crossover area with the block off plate that comes with the intake set so it should be sealed anyway.

Albert

[/ QUOTE ]

A 074 head unless someone has modified it has no passage, A good common practice is to pressure check a engine before installation. I highly recommend it.

[Alss]

[ QUOTE ]
BAD THING! The 074 heads don't use the heat crossover and it is a dead end and does not go to the water jacket. Your heads need to be pressure checked. Should have no water. The head bolts in the ZL-1 block are blind-they don't go into the water jacket and only require oil on the threads. The 4 extra head studs go into the 4 intake ports and need sealant-do not use silicone it is not gas resistant. Man, these ZL-1's are different animals.

[/ QUOTE ]

Greg, your NOT making my day..it seems that the flow thru the water jacket isbeing caused by a somewhat large hole..never builds pressure just blows air out...no water in the oil but then again the motor only ran to operating temp once..looks like I may pull the heads since the motor is out and look more closely at this problem..thanks for the input..anyone else care to guess comment on this..really getting frustrated now!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[92646]

Ok so I just read your post about the motor is back together and everything is fine now. So what was the final problem and what about the heads?
Mark Sheppard

[Alss]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok so I just read your post about the motor is back together and everything is fine now. So what was the final problem and what about the heads?
Mark Sheppard

[/ QUOTE ]

had two problems with the motor..both my/machinists fault. First was the missing oil pressure reg that presses into the block and the other was the three missing plugs that are in the lifter valley..the oil press reg is different than the kind in the older blocks..I forgot about it http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif you would think that at 5K or more GM could have included the oil pressure reg ( my cost 3.61 ) and the three valley plugs..all the other plugs come with the motor so why not those three..anyway a little hard work..a litle money (new bearings to be safe) and I am all good to go.

The heads..well thats another story..it seems that some one who did the machine work on these heads before I got them drilled the stud too deep and drilled right thru to the heat crossover actually drilling out the divider between the water passage and the crossover..no easy fix!!.I sealed off the crossover with a piece of stainless shim JB welded to the head followed by some good sealer and a intake gasket with no crossover hole..held pressure and should not leak..I will be keeping an eye on this but I dont think it will cause any problems..time will tell. Ran motor up tp operating temp..set timing..as soon as the roads are dry enough (we had snow this morning!!)I will begin the road tests..motor really liked 16 degrees initial advance and another 20 in the distributor..using a new MSD distributor that has a digital curve..no springs!!..so far so good..well see after the road test. Thanks everyone for their help and support. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/youguysrock.gif

ALbert

[Postsedan]

Glad everything went well and your a happy camper.... now go get yourself a nice drink from your collection. How about some Serbian Plum Brandy, I bet you don`t have that on your shelf?

Dan.

[ANDY M]

Slivovitz? May I recommend this:
http://www.internetwines.com/rws24300.html
It's even Kosher for passover! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[Postsedan]

[ QUOTE ]
Slivovitz? May I recommend this:
http://www.internetwines.com/rws24300.html
It's even Kosher for passover! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Andy,

Slivovitz.... is correct. Most would not know this by name...Are you Serbian? Croation? Most likely not by you last name http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

Dan.

[RPO LS7]

Yes, wrong or loose cam bearings could do it. My machinist said the ZL-1 cam bearings were not standard BBC, he put in Dart Block bearings-Durabond HP cam bearings GMP-12.
Sorry to dredge up an old thread, but doing some research on this topic and was hoping someone experienced could expand on what the difference is regarding the cam bearings for the new release two piece rear main seal aluminum ZL1 block, and any regular production Mark IV big block. Thanks.