bogus 1969 435 car comming up at barrett jackson

[70 ls6 convert]

just a warning for any potential buy,this 1969 lemans blue car was purchased buy my good friend, as a born with numbers matching motor,turned out to have a 2 bolt restamped block,also had a after market trim tag,taiwan exhaust manifolds,the list goes on,dont let this guy fool you,hes a real scammer..

[rubbinisracing]

Who's the seller?

[1969l71convert]

lot 645 at BJ, 69 corvette, failed to sale at mechum in kissimee for 60k in Jan. last owner at the time was James Wallace

[Stefano]

So are you saying that you know this is not a real L71?

Who did your friend sell it to?

[motionwannabe]

i dont understand why people try to sell these bogus cars as the real deal.does stupidity run that high in our hobby that they think it wont be figured out by the groups that keep a tight watch on this? how do they get past the inspectors at the auctions who check them for authenticity? whoever buys this car should give the seller a good swift kick in the beans. if its a clone say its a clone who cares?some people are ridiculous!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

[70 ls6 convert]

My friend met this guy named john wallace at barrett jackson a few years ago ,he told john he was in the market for an all orginal,1969 435 hp convert,lamans blue,they agreed to a price of 75,000 for this born with numbers matching car,sent the car up here to alaska, withen minutes of looking at the car it was apparent the engines was a restamp,the trim tag was a repo,so with presure of going to the cops for fraud and theft, he was able to force him to give the money back..Now i see hes calling the car numbers match again, its to bad he cant say (with a correct restamp engine) because now someone else is gonna get hurt by this sell,

[Fast67VelleN2O]

Wasn't there a thread on this exact car a few months back? If I remember correctly, the trim tag was extremely bad.

[jl8dale]

Your friend agreed to pay $75,000 for a car sight unseen and didn't ask for pictures of the stampings and trim tag at least?
That seems a little trusting to me.

[wwchevy]

I remember you posted this story at the time it happened to your friend. Seems to me like the guy's name wasn't John?? Anyway, I'm glad your friend got his money back and this car is being exposed for what it is. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[beater68427]

There is a green convert 69 435 car that sold at BJ two years ago, the seller sold it as top flight and it is and very nice, the seller never said it was a real 435 car, but the car is a fake. It went to a well known dealer and then resold. Last I knew it was in AZ. I'm sure by now it is born with.

[SS427]

original thread (http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=UBB1&Number=350775&Search page=1&Main=350775&Words=Corvette+70+ls6+convert&t opic=&Search=true#Post350775)

[TimG]

It always helps to do your homework on a car. I've been guilty of moving too quickly on a car or getting caught up in the "thrill". Sometimes someone has an excuse as to why they don't have a picture of a pad or paperwork or some critical item and you drive hundreds of miles to look at something that isn't what you expect it to be.

[lzdick]

[ QUOTE ]
My friend met this guy named john wallace at barrett jackson a few years ago...

[/ QUOTE ]

By any chance is John Wallace a Corvette dealer in the Midwest?

[PeteLeathersac]

Unless there's a legal reason why not to, threads like this should always include the complete Vin posted in an uncluttered format as in Vin 194679S700001 not Vin194679S700001.
At least someone doing their homework and Googling the Vin before purchase has a fair chance of finding out the truth before it's too late..

Is this the correct Vin of the subject car...mods please remove if necessary?.

Vin 194679S709381

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif
~ Pete

[musclecarjohn]

[ QUOTE ]
Last I knew it was in AZ...I'm sure by now it is born with.

[/ QUOTE ]

That quote cracks me up...

[1969l71convert]

thats the vin

[Lynn]

[ QUOTE ]
.... how do they get past the inspectors at the auctions who check them for authenticity? ....

[/ QUOTE ]

Common misconception. There are no "inspectors" who check for authenticity.

Link to the BJ description: http://www.barrett-jackson.com/applicati...=04%2f09%2f2009 (http://www.barrett-jackson.com/application/onlinesubmission/currentcarlist.aspx?aid=284&sd=04%2f09%2f2009&ed=0 4%2f09%2f2009)


I don't remember if it was posted here, or if I read the entire BJ bidder agreement at their web site a couple of years ago. Clearly, under the terms of terms of the bidder agreement, ALL of the responsibility for representation (or misrepresentation) is on the seller, not BJ.

[Lynn]

OK, here is the part I was looking for. Copied from a BJ bidder agreement. In other words, do your own homework, and have the car inspected.

1. LIMITATIONS AND DISCLAIMERS:
(A) Each Lot is consigned to Barrett-Jackson by the seller shown on the Consignment Agreement
(“Seller”). Each Lot is sold “AS IS - WHERE IS”, with all faults and defects, and with all errors of
description. Buyer understands that (i) any and all information concerning any Lot is provided by
Seller; (ii) Barrett-Jackson does not make any representations or express any opinions of its own
concerning any Lot; and (iii) Barrett-Jackson does not examine any Lot or any component of any
Lot, research the title documents or the provenance of the Lot or verify any information provided by
Seller, nor does Barrett-Jackson undertake any duty to do any of the foregoing for the benefit of Buyer
or anyone else. Buyer acknowledges that Barrett-Jackson’s only duty toward Buyer is to transfer the
Lot to Buyer “AS-IS - WHERE IS”, upon full performance by Buyer under this Agreement and at the
times specified in this Agreement. Except with regard to such duty, Buyer hereby waives and releases
Barrett-Jackson from and against any claim, demand, liability, or expense of any kind arising out of
or related to the Lot, expressly including without limitation any assertions of negligence (including
negligent misrepresentation) or breach of warranty. Buyer agrees not to join Barrett-Jackson as a
defendant in any action or proceeding arising directly or indirectly out of the condition of the Lot or any
alleged representations concerning the Lot, and further agrees to look solely to Seller with respect to
such matters. If Buyer fails to comply with this provision, Buyer agrees to reimburse Barrett-Jackson
for all costs, expenses and fees, including attorney fees, in defense of such clams.
(B) Barrett-Jackson disclaims all warranties, express or implied, concerning the Lot, including the
warranties of merchantability or fitness for any particular purpose(s). Buyer represents that the
amounts bid for any Lot are based solely on Buyer’s own independent inspection and evaluation
of that Lot. As a material inducement to this agreement: (i) Buyer has undertaken to make his own
examination of any Lot before bidding; and (ii) assumes all risk of any non-conformities in any
Lot. Buyer further acknowledges that he has not relied upon any assumptions regarding Barrett-
Jackson’s knowledge concerning the Lot or the Seller nor upon any oral or written representations by
Barrett-Jackson, including without limitation any representations as to condition, year or age, serial
or identification number, make, model, mileage, equipment, genuineness or authenticity, originality,
previous use or ownership, manufacturing or restoration processes of any Lot or any component of any
Lot. Finally, Buyer acknowledges that his invocation of the mediation provisions set forth in Section
5(B) below does not create any warranties, express or implied, and that Barrett-Jackson shall have no
liability to Buyer or Seller as a result of its facilitation of any mediation.
(C) All Statements contained in any catalogs, brochures or advertisements of any type pertaining to
the sale, including without limitation any statements concerning condition, genuineness or authenticity,
origin or provenance, previous use or ownership, manufacturing or restoration processes, year or
age, serial number, make, model or mileage of any Lot or of any component of any Lot, are either
expressions of opinion or are for ease of identification only, and they are not to be relied upon by Buyer
as representations of fact. Buyer assumes all risks associated with any nonconformity of any Lot or
any component of any Lot and, as a condition of Buyer’s participation in the auction, Buyer represents
that he will conduct any inspections and examination necessary to satisfy himself of all material facts
before making any bid.
(D) Neither Barrett-Jackson, nor Seller, nor any agent, employee or representative of Barrett-Jackson
or Seller, has given or authorized any other person to give any oral or written affirmation, representation,
warranty or guarantee concerning any Lot. In any event, Barrett-Jackson assumes no liability for
any affirmations, representations, warranties or guarantees made by Seller to Buyer.

[motionwannabe]

i dont know. i would think barrett jackson would want to be known as a very thorough and meticulous company. i would think that they would want to be sure what they are selling as the "real deal" really is. I am not a fan of barrett jackson i was before all the shill bidding on the rebodied reggie jackson car. i mean fraud is fraud and in my eyes if they sell the car as 1969 #435 car well then they should be just as responsible for the crime. i know these cars still belong to the previous owners untill they are bought but just to be legit they should have them verified. i know if a buddy of mine was selling a bogus car and i were helping him unknowingly i would be upset when i found out and with my luck nobody would trust my judgement again. its simply my opinion. its like a guy saying hes elvis and i go along with his story and start charging people to see the real elvis only to find out the guys a lying sack of crap. im now an accessary to a crime. people lost money and when i look a judge in the face and say "well, i didnt know" hes gonna tell me maybe you should have checked into it before you charged people to see him. in my eyes b/j is just as guilty. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

[iluv69s]

It seems as if BJ is paying for some of it's prior auctions (antics) as I see very few nice cars going thru their auction this time. Very different then the lineup for the Mecum auction in May. Although there will always be the uneducated buyer, it seems like most people are catching on.

[motionwannabe]

i hope they all come back to bite them. these vehicles should be proven for autheticity before they are sold. i'd have to if i were selling it . why shouldnt they? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[68 Vert]

[ QUOTE ]
It seems as if BJ is paying for some of it's prior auctions (antics) as I see very few nice cars going thru their auction this time. Very different then the lineup for the Mecum auction in May. Although there will always be the uneducated buyer, it seems like most people are catching on.

[/ QUOTE ]

While I agree with this, let's keep in mind, the PB auction hasn't typically attracted the best cars since it's inception. This years line-up looks similar to the previous auctions at this event...unfortunately.

Mike

[L72COPO]

West Palm Beach, Florida: Midway through Friday's collector car sale, representatives of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) forced Barrett-Jackson to stop the sale of certain cars from the GM Heritage Fleet. Our sources tell us that this order from NHTSA was completely unexpected; Barrett-Jackson and GM have been extremely careful to note, in written material posted on the cars, which GM cars are sold on "salvage titles" or similar, and cannot be registered. Apparently, despite this, NHTSA is concerned that someone "might try" to register the cars for the street.

GM and Barrett-Jackson are attempting to resolve this so that the cars, which have been heavily publicized and have drawn bidders from across the nation, can be sold. Unfortunately, discussions are hampered by the fact that the relevant NHTSA offices are closed for the day, and reportedly will be closed tomorrow as well.

For updates, go to the Barrett-Jackson web site, www.barrett-jackson.com (http://www.barrett-jackson.com)

[ddmrk]

OK
"BJ does not examine any Lot or any component of any Lot, research the title documents or the provenance of the Lot or verify any information provided by
Seller, nor does BJ undertake any duty to do any of the foregoing for the benefit of Buyer
or anyone else. Buyer acknowledges that B-J’s only duty toward Buyer is to transfer the the
Lot to Buyer “AS-IS - WHERE IS ,THAT = to about 1% for services rendered
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif buyer pays 10% seller pays 8% so what does the 18% get you from BJ -- BS

[Charley Lillard]

Barrett-Jackson brings together a thousand cars for people to shop from. They advertise the heck out of them. There is no way for them to do a complete exam on each car. They do refund money and charge the seller both commissions if the buyer shows that the seller mis-represented the car. If they are warned ahead of time about a car such as this Vette they will probably do something but we can't expect them to take a car apart looking at hidden vins, research history etc.

[Lynn]

[ QUOTE ]
Barrett-Jackson brings together a thousand cars for people to shop from. They advertise the heck out of them. There is no way for them to do a complete exam on each car. They do refund money and charge the seller both commissions if the buyer shows that the seller mis-represented the car. If they are warned ahead of time about a car such as this Vette they will probably do something but we can't expect them to take a car apart looking at hidden vins, research history etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

As much as I would LIKE to say BJ OUGHT to be responsible for authenticating every car, Charley is exactly right. There is no way it can be done. Unfortunately, some of the "green" buyers don't realize that, and that is where the problems have come from. I don't know that it is fair to expect BJ to do more than they have done in the past when a car is misrepresented. Buyer is made whole.

BJ is providing a valuable service. Frauds and fakes will always be part of the game when there is money involvoed, same as the art and antique business.

JMHO.

[Chateau Slate 66]

[ QUOTE ]
West Palm Beach, Florida: Midway through Friday's collector car sale, representatives of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) forced Barrett-Jackson to stop the sale of certain cars from the GM Heritage Fleet. Our sources tell us that this order from NHTSA was completely unexpected; Barrett-Jackson and GM have been extremely careful to note, in written material posted on the cars, which GM cars are sold on "salvage titles" or similar, and cannot be registered. Apparently, despite this, NHTSA is concerned that someone "might try" to register the cars for the street.

GM and Barrett-Jackson are attempting to resolve this so that the cars, which have been heavily publicized and have drawn bidders from across the nation, can be sold. Unfortunately, discussions are hampered by the fact that the relevant NHTSA offices are closed for the day, and reportedly will be closed tomorrow as well.

For updates, go to the Barrett-Jackson web site, www.barrett-jackson.com (http://www.barrett-jackson.com)

[/ QUOTE ]

You just can't make this stuff up fast enough. Now Big Brother is going to say you can't buy a car with a salvage title because of something a buyer "might try" to do??

I've never been a "black helicopters" guy, but we keep getting closer and closer to communism.

[bashton]

Looks like the "issues" have been resolved.

After holding a Press Conference announcing that 80 of the GM vehicles were being pulled from the auction, they have now apparently resolved the issues and all of the cars in question are back up for auction.

Bashton

[njsteve]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
West Palm Beach, Florida: Midway through Friday's collector car sale, representatives of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) forced Barrett-Jackson to stop the sale of certain cars from the GM Heritage Fleet. Our sources tell us that this order from NHTSA was completely unexpected; Barrett-Jackson and GM have been extremely careful to note, in written material posted on the cars, which GM cars are sold on "salvage titles" or similar, and cannot be registered. Apparently, despite this, NHTSA is concerned that someone "might try" to register the cars for the street.

GM and Barrett-Jackson are attempting to resolve this so that the cars, which have been heavily publicized and have drawn bidders from across the nation, can be sold. Unfortunately, discussions are hampered by the fact that the relevant NHTSA offices are closed for the day, and reportedly will be closed tomorrow as well.

For updates, go to the Barrett-Jackson web site, www.barrett-jackson.com (http://www.barrett-jackson.com)

[/ QUOTE ]

You just can't make this stuff up fast enough. Now Big Brother is going to say you can't buy a car with a salvage title because of something a buyer "might try" to do??

I've never been a "black helicopters" guy, but we keep getting closer and closer to communism.

[/ QUOTE ]

Reminds me of the time in college when the local "assistant deputy" pulled me over in my Camaro while I was driving 20 mph in a 25 mph zone, plodding along behind a garbage truck. He wrote me a ticket for the newly invented crime of "attempted speeding". He said if the garbage truck had not been in front of me at the time, then I would have definitely been exceeding the posted speed limit.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

It turns out he had just been yelled at by his chief for doing stupid stuff and decided he had to vent his anger at someone.

I called the chief and asked him if he wanted to take care of this ticket or should I call my lawyer in NYC and the local media. The chief said he'd take care of the ticket. Mr. "assistant deputy" was never seen again in that town.

[akcamaro]

If you guys are into Big Block Vettes. This just poped up for the first time on Alaska craigslist yesterday. I looked at this car last year, when I was bought a 70 camaro from this guy. He wasn't selling the corvette yet, then.
http://anchorage.craigslist.org/cto/1113836341.html

He could have at least washed the volcano ash off of it.
http://images.craigslist.org/3ne3o73pfZZZZZZZZZ948dd9b0fc59b05103e.jpg

[beater68427]

[ QUOTE ]
Barrett-Jackson brings together a thousand cars for people to shop from. They advertise the heck out of them. There is no way for them to do a complete exam on each car. They do refund money and charge the seller both commissions if the buyer shows that the seller mis-represented the car. If they are warned ahead of time about a car such as this Vette they will probably do something but we can't expect them to take a car apart looking at hidden vins, research history etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well Said! Barrett Jackson is a auction co. period! they put on the plate what is brought to them, BJ is in the business of dead presidents. They do a good job of picking nice cars, the buyer is responsible to inspect the vehicle and verify before bidding. Now if a seller misrepresent's a vehicle I would hope a potential Buyer - Bidder has enough knowledge of what they might be potentially buying or bidding on, and give a good examination before biddig Due Diligence, I feel the auction house no matter who it is, is to say you get a good deal or not, Know what you purchase! The original thread was about a man saying "This Is The Real Deal" when clearly not! There are alot of sellers out there for the buck and are not good at all for the community and just passing crap, I feel it is good to inform people of such vehicles and or parts, But to hold a auction co. accountable for a scam on behalf of a seller and a buyer NOT doing their due diligense is obsurd. Do your work before you purchase The original car in question sounds to be fake, I feel it is good within reason to inform on vehicles and keep unknowledgeable potential buyes aware. Now that's said its friday easter weeking time for a beer..... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Bill Rose]

The Vette just sold for $60,000. Minus the 8% the seller pays BJ. Plus the cost to get it there, hotels food, entry fees, etc. He probably walked away with Low 50's.

[70 ls6 convert]

I hope the new owner knows what he got,otherwise the vicious cycle goes on..