Bogus/stolen vins

[vintagez]

Just a heads up for you folks. We deal with GM products from around the world, and lately have had a few more current vehicles where the owners have been stung trying to purchase 2000 model year and newer. The vin tags are beautifully reproduced, even SPID and compliance labels, we have even seen legitimate titles, but the info from the SPID does not match the VIN data. These are mostly from southern states and Mexico. If the deal seems too good to be true then check again. Have also had folks call us where they have 'bought' cars on line, they have seen pictures etc but when they send the money it does not exist, the seller uses other peoples car pictures to sell their ficticious car. Now it sometimes can be the buyers own excitement when they are sold a 69 Z/28 for $5000, obviously do your homework. Just a heads up as we are seeing more of this lately.

[PeteLeathersac]

I read the story a week or so back of a guy who's F-Truck was picked after being discovered to be previously stolen, reVinned and sold to him..
He's lost the vehicle and dough he had into it also is still on the hook for the balance of the loan he had against it..
I wonder if there's any insurance policys that carry coverage for this kind of thing yet?.

Since you're here George, are you able to confirm and/or tell us of any cases of vintage 'air cars'...collectible and documented muscle cars that seem to have appeared out of the air and 'manufactured' to suit documents?.
To be specific, there's been Canadian documented cars we've seen on this site where it appears possible that the documents may have existed first and the car 'manufactured' second..
One Example - someone has one of the old microfilm copies (that show numerous Vins besides their own) and spots a rare option w/ another Vin, they send that Vin in for documents from you guys then built an exact car to match, all colors and options shown w/ repop Vin and Cowl tags etc...TA-DA, rare piece and GM Canada documented too!.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
~ Pete
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/youguysrock.gif

[vintagez]

I can only assume that those things can happen. I try to tell guys to cover up their vin numbers with a business card or so on the dash, a piece of tape on the cowl tag if an older car. The vin is your own business unless you are selling the car, in which case you must disclose it. So many people try to set up data bases of vin numbers, and in reality whose home computer do these end up on? I recently had a guy on one of the other forums say that because he had met Frank and myself at a car show that everyone should send him their vin numbers and he was thus trustworthy and would store the data. I responded strongly on that website that we had met this person, but why would he try to associate himself with us for data storage, I know I would never give him any info to 'store'. In my opinion, and that is all it is, only the manufacturer should 'store' vins. Funny though I got beat up on the forum saying it should be common knowledge. Needless to say I do not frequent that forum any longer, but everyone is entitled to an opinion. I made a comment on credibility in one of my other posts, that is all we can offer, whether it is you, me or anyone. On a side note I have heard that a 'certain' 1969 Camaro exists with the same vin in 3 different countries, so anything is possible. One guy probably has the original vin tag, the other the cowl tag, and the last guy the body shell. I know that not everyone can have an original numbers matching 69 z/28, and I do appreciate where someone has built their car to look like one, as long as he does not try to sell it as one and discloses that it is a clone. Let the responses begin!

Well....I have said it so many times before. The vin# is not for public display, especially on the rare cars.

[chevelleheart]

Well said George !

[68427caprice]

Thanks George from "Out West" for the great services over the years. I was early enough to get the micro docs for my Capricehttp://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif years ago (among other cars). Thanks.
As for the VIN, I agree, should not be public, but I am OK with "good" secure storage for "registry" purposes. I am in favour with good registry info, especially in the cases where you may not the original documentation for car, but from the timelines and personal history, the car appears to be legit. I would like to see "public" database's for the registry's without personal info and VIN's. This may help to keep the legit cars shown on registry as legit and the clones in list as clones. Not against clones, just against clones being sold as originals.
Enough rambling...
Jim

[HiHorse]

I prefer to not cover up my VIN and trim tag. If a VIN is widely known and in Data banks, I believe it would be difficult to mess with.

[68427caprice]

[ QUOTE ]
I prefer to not cover up my VIN and trim tag. If a VIN is widely known and in Data banks, I believe it would be difficult to mess with.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think the trick would be to make sure every database it is on is available to people looking to buy, sort of like a state/provincial database, that is also tracked for stolen vehicles etc.
I am sure this could be expanded upon.
There is a company in New Zealand that I know the owner and they are like a cross between lemon busters (database) and AAA (AMA) for auto owners and buyers. I think there may be too many cars here (plus the % of them that don't subscribe to this theory of disclosure) that it would be a monumental task.
JB

[Hylton]

[ QUOTE ]
Just a heads up for you folks. We deal with GM products from around the world, and lately have had a few more current vehicles where the owners have been stung trying to purchase 2000 model year and newer. The vin tags are beautifully reproduced, even SPID and compliance labels, we have even seen legitimate titles, but the info from the SPID does not match the VIN data. These are mostly from southern states and Mexico. If the deal seems too good to be true then check again. Have also had folks call us where they have 'bought' cars on line, they have seen pictures etc but when they send the money it does not exist, the seller uses other peoples car pictures to sell their ficticious car. Now it sometimes can be the buyers own excitement when they are sold a 69 Z/28 for $5000, obviously do your homework. Just a heads up as we are seeing more of this lately.

[/ QUOTE ]


Are you saying that they are perfectly re-producing the laser etched VIN tags? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[Kurt S]

I don't agree about covering up a VIN. It's visible on all my cars. Exactly what is someone going to do with it and why?
Look at all the 67 and 68 Yenkos that are not being made even though the VIN's are public. This was discussed in the Vette world years ago and is generally considered a non-issue.

The 'air cars' are a different issue. Doesn't happen often and the docs have to be worth it, but I think it does happen.

[Hylton]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't agree about covering up a VIN. It's visible on all my cars. Exactly what is someone going to do with it and why?
Look at all the 67 and 68 Yenkos that are not being made even though the VIN's are public. This was discussed in the Vette world years ago and is generally considered a non-issue.

The 'air cars' are a different issue. Doesn't happen often and the docs have to be worth it, but I think it does happen.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree.

[68427caprice]

I have been around cars for 30 years, never heard of an "air car".
What is an air car. I assume it is not a car with A/C... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif

[x77-69z28]

i believe it is a car that appears out of thin air.

[Hylton]

I think we've discussed a few of them on here in the past.

[68427caprice]

Thanks for the air car expl.

I was not familiar with term, but have heard of the concept obviously.

Maybe advertising or at least having a central listing for all cars ID and Ser. numbers would make this harder to do.

[Hylton]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the air car expl.

I was not familiar with term, but have heard of the concept obviously.

Maybe advertising or at least having a central listing for all cars ID and Ser. numbers would make this harder to do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really because someone may find a legitimate car that has not been seen in 35 years and theoretically, that car would face the same scrutiny as an air car. As we have mentioned in the past, every car has a history and I have not found ONE legit fully restored Camaro that someone (other than the current owner) doesn't have a memory about.

I think Hylton explained the scenario very well, but I see at least one other danger. Any rare car that has a paper trail going back to GM is at risk of having an air car created from the info obtained from GM,and speficially those kinds of cars as Hylton mentioned.