Trim Tag Rivits

[bergy]

This may be the "post that leads to nowhere", but there was another discussion on this site mentioning the back side of the trim tag rivits. I have to tell you that I've never paid much attention to that feature, but it would be very difficult to reattach a trim tag and maintain the original factory look. Maybe a good discussion for documenting the originality of cars? Any thoughts? Here is one of the rivits on my burnish brown copo car.

http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo199/cole1230/BBcopotrimtagrivits.jpg

[m22mike]

If one is looking at a car for sale and you can get to it , bring your inspection mirror with you http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif
It is not likley anyone will squeez a replacement rivet like a original.
Great point.

[SS427]

One thing we all have to remember however is a trim tag that is removed and reinstalled does not make a bogus car. I would wonder about a VIN tag but not so much a cowl tag especially with documenting photographs.

[70 copo]

There is no specification for squeezing a rivet and producing a reproducable outcome on the back side that could be used to ligitimize or dismiss a car, its tag or its restotration as a fake.

This is a serious board that many in the hobby look up to right?

If we are joking around we have a lounge.... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[66 L78 ragtop]

[ QUOTE ]
One thing we all have to remember however is a trim tag that is removed and reinstalled does not make a bogus car. I would wonder about a VIN tag but not so much a cowl tag especially with documenting photographs.

[/ QUOTE ]

If someone is going to remove a TT, I would highly recommend that person have a very good method of proving that said trim tag was on that particular to begin with.

Otherwise, I as well as many others will frown upon the claims of that TT belonging to that particular car

[66 L78 ragtop]

[ QUOTE ]
There is no specification for squeezing a rivet and producing a reproducable outcome on the back side that could be used to ligitimize or dismiss a car, its tag or its restotration as a fake.

This is a serious board that many in the hobby look up to right?

If we are joking around we have a lounge.... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

There is no specification that I am aware of for squeezing a rivet, but if enough are studied you will find a trend of some sort that will differentiate an original from a fake.

The mirror method is an old school idea which does not lend itself to documenting the backside of TT. A fiber optic scope is the best method and will allow you photographically document the reverse side of trim tags.

Not to mention that it will also allow you to ID sections of firewall that have been transplanted with the intent to preserve original rivets.

[70 copo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There is no specification for squeezing a rivet and producing a reproducable outcome on the back side that could be used to ligitimize or dismiss a car, its tag or its restotration as a fake.

This is a serious board that many in the hobby look up to right?

If we are joking around we have a lounge.... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

There is no specification that I am aware of for squeezing a rivet, but if enough are studied you will find a trend of some sort that will differentiate an original from a fake.

The mirror method is an old school idea which does not lend itself to documenting the backside of TT. A fiber optic scope is the best method and will allow you photographically document the reverse side of trim tags.

Not to mention that it will also allow you to ID sections of firewall that have been transplanted with the intent to preserve original rivets.

[/ QUOTE ]

Years ago I Did exactly that - trying to find a pattern when the first repop TT's came out. I Stomped around several salvage yards in the late 80's with a dental mirror. My conclusion was that because these cars were mass produced there was no time to worry about much more than if the rivit properly attached.

Additionally since there is no specification within the AIM for how the rivit is to be compressed - then there is no standardization. What you are left with is cosmetic variations.

As to the visual indicator of firewall transplantation I suppose you could observe that if the work is sloppy or seam sealer was not applied.

[69RSZ]

There is no reason to remove a trim tag other than to make a car something it wasnt from the factory,differnt color,or options right? A trim tag on a 67 camaro tells a lot about the car and a car with the right options on the tag would bring big money like a 4L code or 4K.I would walk away from a car with a re riveted tag.

[PeteLeathersac]

[ QUOTE ]
...There is no reason to remove a trim tag other than to make a car something it wasnt from the factory...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm totally against tag dancing but here's a couple legit reasons of why a tag may need to be removed...anyone have more?.

1) Not a great thing to do for many reasons but if a body is being chemically dipped, aluminum tags and other parts need to be removed that the process will destroy..

2) With cars being stored where security is less than perfect, even though it's best to have tags that have never been removed, it'd be better to have such a thing than the tags stolen...there's been a few threads here in the past where this has happened..

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif
~ Pete

[COPO 70 RS/Z28]

[ QUOTE ]


1) Not a great thing to do for many reasons but if a body is being chemically dipped, aluminum tags and other parts need to be removed that the process will destroy..

~ Pete

[/ QUOTE ]

I have a friend that dipped his 69 years ago and was unaware of the risks and the dipping process vaporized his tag.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

[bkhpah]

Most if not all the trim tags I have seen look nothing like the photo. The centers are open and the rivet folds around the back side. Then seam sealer is applied to the void left in the center of the rivet. I doubt there is a standard look to these. As for removal of the tag, if you do not and have it dipped, blasted, etc, you will ruin the tag instantly. Even a trip in the bead cabinet with to much pressure will warp a tag before you know you even did it. I have had cars in the shop with so much build up of paint on the tag it was un-readable. So much build-up that I thought the tag was a fake. The best way I know to clean the tag is with a mild paint stripper. Anything else and you will be looking at a repo tag..BKH

[Xplantdad]

And I would suppose that if you needed to take a trim tag off for any reason...you could document the process fairly easily with a video camera... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[resto4u]

I have seen rusted firewalls that you have to remove the tag to fix the rust or replace the upper cowl. Not a big deal if documented right, as bruce suggested video and witnesses. Roger

[bergy]

Just FYI - The center of the rivit on the tag pictured has seam sealer protruding through it. The center was presumably open before the seam sealer was applied.

http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo199/cole1230/BBCopoTagrivits.jpg

[RamAirDave]

I've never been in any situation in which trim tag r/r was needed during resto. Maybe I've just been lucky, but I would have some serious reservations on ever doing so.

Having one chem-dipped isn't an option we would consider, and the ones I've had blasted I've covered every tag/# with several layers of duct tape as well as repeated instructions to the blaster not to go near it. When we had (the first and only) car soda blasted, they didn't listen very well and hit the tag. It looked damaged initially, but turned out okay.

Non-issue now as I do the blasting myself now (again). And if its built up with paint, just strip the paint as BH mentioned.

[P.J.]

If you have documents and a history of the car and you need to replace the trim tag rivets its ok with me.You are lucky if your rivets and tag are ok after 40 years,
but what iffffff.I have seen rivets that were about to fall off from corrosion. Do you chance loosing the trim tag???
Surely if your cars history and documents are ify then yes
removing the tag is a no no.
PJ