Broadcast sheet question

[CDNL-78]

Found the broadcast with one of the previous owners of my 69 SS L-78. With a little convincing, he sent me 2 copies of the broadcast sheets. The question is, it says it's optioned with a M20 on the sheet, but my GM documents from George says it came with an M21, Which is what is currently in the car. Is this common for a mis-print on the broadcast sheet sometimes ?? Thanks for your time. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[Keith Tedford]

Where was the car built?

[CDNL-78]

Willow run.

[CDNL-78]

If somebody could take the time to post a picture of the documentation, & broadcast sheet, I would really appreciate it. Let me know, I'II send a few pictures your way. Thanks

[mockingbird812]

Darcy - send them my way... [email protected]

[mockingbird812]

Here you go...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v697/mockingbird812/sYc%20site/1969NovaSS396011.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v697/mockingbird812/sYc%20site/1969NovaSS396007.jpg

[CDNL-78]

Thanks Sam. Any thoughts on why these have different tranny codes, anybody ??

[Mark_C]

That looks like a body broadcast sheet, not a chassis sheet. If so it relates to the work on the body needed to be done by Fisher. Fishers only concern would have been to cut the hole in the floor, and M20 is GMs generic code for a 4 speed manual transmission, it does not actually mean its a Muncie transmission.

[Tarrytown SS427s]

Did you verify that the body number on your cowl tag matches the one on the seat tag?
Steve

[Mr.Nickey Nova]

[ QUOTE ]
That looks like a body broadcast sheet, not a chassis sheet. If so it relates to the work on the body needed to be done by Fisher. Fishers only concern would have been to cut the hole in the floor, and M20 is GMs generic code for a 4 speed manual transmission, it does not actually mean its a Muncie transmission.

[/ QUOTE ]
You hit it right on the money Mark.My 72 Nova SS is the same way and i know of a 69 survivor Nova with a H/D 3spd. trans that has M20 on the broadcast sheet.

[CDNL-78]

[ QUOTE ]
Did you verify that the body number on your cowl tag matches the one on the seat tag?
Steve

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, it does match the cowl tag.

[CDNL-78]

[ QUOTE ]
That looks like a body broadcast sheet, not a chassis sheet. If so it relates to the work on the body needed to be done by Fisher. Fishers only concern would have been to cut the hole in the floor, and M20 is GMs generic code for a 4 speed manual transmission, it does not actually mean its a Muncie transmission.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where would I find a chassis sheet in this car ?? Or did it hit the garbage can after it was built at the factory ?? Thanks for the input.

[JohnZ]

[ QUOTE ]

Where would I find a chassis sheet in this car ?? Or did it hit the garbage can after it was built at the factory ?? Thanks for the input.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a Fisher Body UOIT sheet (Uniform Option Identification Tag), not a Chevrolet Broadcast Copy; Fisher didn't care about M20 vs. M21 - all it meant to them was to cut a hole in the floor.

There were multiple Body and Chassis Broadcast Copies printed in the system on the Chevrolet side of the plant for every car, and they were trashed as they were no longer needed. If any remained in/on/under the car, they were removed during the "de-papering" process on the Shipping Line, as they were strictly internal process documents and had no use outside the plant.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[JChlupsa]

2nd line block 4 whats the "?" translate to

[CDNL-78]

I to am curious Hawaiiancamaro about the ? mark. How about B55 & B80 ??I looked on the camaro site for decode the numbers, but they weren't there. Thanks guys for your help. The knowledge is endless here. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[Nova Research Project]

[ QUOTE ]
Where would I find a chassis sheet in this car ?? Or did it hit the garbage can after it was built at the factory ?? Thanks for the input.

[/ QUOTE ]

If it was not in the glove box then you probably will not find it.

This applies to 3rd gen Novas.

There are build sheets and there are build sheets. What I mean is that the build sheet that most people find before 71-72 model year was the Fisher Body build sheets [The FB UOIT sheet (Uniform Option Identification Tag) sheets as JohnZ said above]. The GM build sheets were called Broadcast Sheets. The Fisher Body build sheets were probably called broadcast sheets too. Only us enthusiasts call them build sheets.

The one in the seats was used on the Fisher Body side of the factory. This sheet was printed at the seat sub assembly area. They would pull a sheet off of the printer and build the seat according to the trim code box on the sheet. The trim tag was tucked in to the seat springs to identify the seats after they were taken to the line. They were loaded on racks according to SEQuence number. The Sequence number was a daily run order the cars were in as they set on the line. If the car was still on the line at the end of the day that was OK. The sequence numbers were big enough to allow that. The sequence number was reset each morning.

The Fisher Body line worker would have the cars running down the line. He would look at the sequence number crayoned on the body or the similar build sheet taped to the front of the firewall. He would grab the seat that matched the sequence number. Now, if the rack had all or several of the same trim type seats, the worker would not always grab the exact seat by sequence number. More than likely he just looked at the door panels and grabbed the seat the same trim type as the door panels. That is why it is common to find a Fisher Body sheet with the wrong body number.

This paper style Fisher Body sheet was replaced by the punch card style. This happened as Fisher Body was absorbed into General Motors Assembly Division in the 71-72 time frame. Build sheets used after the consolidation were a combined version of the Fisher Body and the two GM build sheets.

The GM build sheets were called Broadcast Sheets. There were Body Broadcast Sheets and Chassis Broadcast Sheets. There are very few know copies of the GM Broadcast sheet used before the consolidation. Lanny Weatherford has one that he displays with his original car. See the May 1996 Edition of Nova Times. After 1972 the Broadcast sheet changed to the black and white landscape 8.5 x 11 sheets. I have seen several of these with cars posted on ebay.

Fisher Body sheets were used by the trim guys. So the sheet could be found under or behind any of the trim pieces. I.e. behind the door panels, the carpet, the head liner, the package tray, the dash pad. Even under the tar paper floor sound deadener. The likelihood of finding this tag under the car or in the engine compartment is very slim. The very fact that they were in the interior and protected is why they have survived.

The RPO codes listed on the sheet are Only the codes that Fisher Body needed to build the body part of the car. They did not list every code the car had. It also listed the codes necessary to get the job done. If you ordered a console and a standard 3 speed. It would only list D55. If you did not have the console it would only list M20. It would not list anything that GM installed which did not need Fisher Body to prep the body. In 1970 it did not even list the engine RPO. Starting in 1970 they did not even list the Engine RPO any longer.

The gas tank was a common place to place the GM broadcast sheets on FULL FRAME cars. This was a ready place to look to see what the chassis needed before it was mounted on the body. So when the LOS plant added the Nova to the other cars they were making, they still continued to tape them to the gas tank. If you have a 71+ LOS car then look there.

Just a reminder The Nova Research Project is seeking copies of any and all broadcast sheets, shipper copies, window sticker, and POP that you find in addition to the Trim tag and VIN information.

Thanks,
Greg

[Nova Research Project]

[ QUOTE ]
2nd line block 4 whats the "?" translate to

[/ QUOTE ]

Just a glitch going to the printer. Remember technology was not as stable as it is today.

The [space]? is supposed to be a B as in B90. The glitch pushed the characters to the right too.

B90 = Door and quarter window frame molding is part of the custom exterior package ZJ2. So it should be called out on this sheet.

B55 = Deluxe front seat cushion. Part of the custom interior (744)

B80 = Bright Drip Rail Molding.

Greg

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Good summarization Greg. One thing we've found on the '70 Deuces is that the punch card appears to have begun usage in the 06B week. I don't believe we've found a 'seat sheet' and a punch card in the same car. The 06B build week is a transition week for other items as well, so hopefully these findings helps narrow down the punch card introduction.

[Nova Research Project]

Marlin,

Thanks, We talked about 06B as the transition week for the punch cards before. I agree, same as seat belts.

Greg

[CDNL-78]

Thanks Greg. So with the 2 sheets, they would of been attached to the upper & lower back seats?? Or why is there 2 sheets??

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Both sections of the rear seat usually have a sheet, they are less likely to be found in the front seats for some reason.

Like others have said, the M20 designation is only for a 'manual' trans so that a hole is punched in the floor. The deuces were all M21 cars, but every sheet has an M20 on it - the two canadian copo Novas are still in question, they might have actually come with an M20 but we aren't sure.

[Nova Research Project]

Typically they were attached to each seat piece. The back of the rear seat, bottom of the rear seat, and the bottom of the front seat.

However the gold custom cloth gold seats in my wife's Nova did not have any.

Bucket seats may have one in each behind the back covers.

I guess there could have been up to four in bucket seat cars three in the bench seat cars.

My silver car had three cards. Two matched and one was from the second car ahead.

Greg

[CDNL-78]

I had the front seat out tonight, didn't find a darn thing, unless it's hidden inside the seat some where. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif But nothing around the bottom springs. I talked to the previous owner tonight, he said the front seat was out at one time for a repair. But never found anything himself, unless the repair shop ripped it off & threw it out.

I did find the front & rear carpet part number tags with dates & stuff. So not all was a loss tonight. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Thanks for the help guys. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

The rear seats usually have the sheets wrapped around the seat frame - frequently requiring a hog ring removal or two. Sometimes they are almost completely hidden under the burlap, cotton and seat cover/frame. Don't factor out the mice either, they will put that sheet in a thousand pieces as they build a nest - although I've been able to pull pieces out of a nest and fill in some gaps.

[TAR6569]

Greg, how can I get a hold of you? Your PM box is full. I can be of some help to you.

Warren

[Nova Research Project]

Warren,

Cleaned the mail box, or contact be via chevynova.org. Email is in my profile.

Greg

[mbxlesney]

Greg.....On the Fisher broadcast seat sheets in 1969, I have noticed a few of these over the years with the L78 but have never seen one with L34. Did Fisher Body use this as the generic code for the car having a BB like using the M20 for the manual transmission? Also was the L78 listed solely for the purpose of the heater box differences? I owned a 1969 Nova SS that had L48 and N10 on its seat sheet. I also always wondered what become of all the Fisher body records and why they would not be a viable source of info instead of trying to convince Chevrolet to dig up all their records like Jim M. was trying to accomplish.

[WILMASBOYL78]

I'm sure Greg will chime in, but I doubt very much that the L78 on 69 Fisher Body sheets was a generic code for the BB application...I will go thru my Nova archives and see what I can find. I have never seen a build sheet that listed L78 that wasn't an L78 car...they made a lot fewer L34 cars in 1969 compared to the L78....L78's seem to be a lot more common.

wilma

[mbxlesney]

Tom....I can agree with that. I just never seen a 1969 L34 seat sheet. I wonder why Fisher body would have a reason to differentiate a L48, L34 and L78 as they were putting a Body and Interior together. I know their role had something to do with the heater box installation which may explain needing to know if the car being built will be a BB, Dual exhaust taping plates, But I would think N10 would cover that even on a L65 ordered with dual exhaust. I always thought Chevrolet took care of the Sub Frame and engine stands. Another item of interest is the ZL3 SS conversion. If the car has the L48, L34 and L78 would that not tell Fisher body the car will be an SS so they can drill or punch out the holes for the rear tail panel. Just thirsty for more knowledge on the Nova broadcast sheets. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[lowmile]

Have you ever seen a 15000 mile green on green 72 4sp Nova in that area? I heard it wound up in down there. I use to own it I have a LOT of paperwork for it including 2 color chasis broadcast sheets. m

[CDNL-78]

I'm sure somebody from this website must have a broadcast sheet for a 350 hp L34 just kicking around somewhere. It would be nice to see one. Have you seen one Greg that you can post for us?? If not, I'm sure Wilma must know of one out there. I'm all ears still, keep educating us all. Thanks again http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/youguysrock.gif

[deuce-less]

http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt254/lafeagle/tn_burgundynovaL-34006.jpg

http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt254/lafeagle/tn_alanscamera063.jpg

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[JRSully]

The L78 designation vs L34 on the Fischer sheet may have something do with, among other things, fuel lines/fuel system. They obviously had to install just one line on the L78 and 2 on the L34 (vapor return line), as these were partially installed directly to the body itself. I see all other BB body components being generic and not L78 or L34 specific.

[Nova Research Project]

Hello, Sorry been working on one of the Novas and not checking here.

I am not sure there was much to do with the engine on the Fisher side. (Especially on the Sheet that was mainly used just to tell the guys in the soft trim shop what seat to build) The Assembly Manual (which was definitely NOT the gospel) shows the fuel lines and heater box as GMAD installs. However as mentioned above may have been the only reason they were there.

However here is why I do not think they matter: In 1970 they dropped the engine RPO altogether.

I have seen L48, L65, L34 and L78. So in 1969 I would expect to see L89 (if there was one) but not 230, 350, 307. The standard engine like the 307 did not even have an RPO. It was the standard, so why call it out?

The trim level could be different even on SS cars. So They probably called it out anyway. Maybe as a reminder to put in a black steering wheel.

The Fisher records were trashed when absorbed into GMAD. Remember this was a hate - hate relationship. Supposedly some of the design documents are on file with the lawyers in case they were sued. Also much of the hard facts were on computer tape. The records were then compressed, printed, the micro filmed - Like the GM of Canada source microfiche that condenses a whole car down to two lines of RPO codes and a few other numbers of computer type.

That is also why you can not get an exact listing of how many Red L78s with White interior with the special fluid monitor were built. GM summarized production by RPO, printed it out and reused the tapes. There was no hard drive storage as we know it today. no databases, and no thought to go back to see what a car had. It was sold and gone. Any needed information was on the POP or on the car in code. I'd almost kill to have the complete order of run tapes for Willow Run for 68-70. There wouldn't be a thing you could not know about a car with the information those tapes contained. However they were probably reused within the week.

That is why my pet project is to catalog as much as I can to statistically show the Normative Practice. A great term stolen for the CRG by the way. Who is doing the the same for the first gen Camaro. The only difference is guys seem to be throwing data at them. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Greg

[Nova Research Project]

More Nova CSI:

Remember I am still learning from the pros and the cars themselves. Here are some areas that offer clues.

Windows stickers are a whole different ball game. The codes changed more than quarterly and with every price change. And they were not any more accurate sometimes. M40 in the Assembly Manual was the TH400. Yet on the window sticker it it just signified Turbo-Hydramatic. A 6 cylinder with M40 really had a TH350 (RPO M38). I am collecting these.

Anyone have a collection of GM Zone letters? They and the dealer option and price books? (not pocket price guides) Would tell what was available and what was not. They also told if you could get a particular option combo or not. These changed quite often as things were available or not. Like the SS wheels, they were not available for a time and then later were. I am looking for digital copies of these.

Lastly the GM service bulletins and service news also told how to fix things as well as what changes were made and sometimes with what VIN the change took effect. I have these and have plans to extract the Nova related info.

You can email any information to me. As well as pictures of labels, decals, wiring harness tape, tags and marks on the body. If you send a label I do not already have I will make you one for free. The email is listed on the site linked below. I will never share specific information about one car or the owner. Just the results as there is enough to have a firm consensus.

Greg

[WILMASBOYL78]

What about the case of the console with gauges...the console option was listed on the Fisher Body sheet...but probably not the gauges. Since there were 3 different tachs used...how was this identified..?? I agree with Sully about the fuel lines, except in 1970 the engine codes were not used http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif but the cars still had the smae fuel lines.

Looks like more work for Mr. Roberts.. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

wilma

[Mark_C]

Console was listed on the fisher sheet because they had to punch the hole in the floor for the rivnuts to hold the brace. Gm installed the actual console, guages and tachs, and all that info was called out on the GM Body broadcast sheet. Different tachs (and instrument clusters) had different letters in the associated broadcast sheet box that would have identified the tachs redline, range, etc. Those tags are ussually on the back of the cluster so all the line worker had to do was match up the letters called out on the sheet with the tag on the back of the cluster.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I don't believe Nova's have rivnuts for their consoles.

[mbxlesney]

lowmile ..as a matter of fact I have seen this car......The guy works at Harley Davidson of Ocala. I went there to get a battery about 1 month ago and I seen this car. It about floored me how clean it was. Small world!!!

[mbxlesney]

Thanks for posting the Fisher sheet. Thats the first L34 I have ever seen.

[TDW]

[ QUOTE ]
lowmile ..as a matter of fact I have seen this car......The guy works at Harley Davidson of Ocala. I went there to get a battery about 1 month ago and I seen this car. It about floored me how clean it was. Small world!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure I have seen it too at the Harley Shop. Was there last Jan, car was sitting in the parking lot.